Grazie wrote on 12/13/2006, 11:04 PM
Which other NLE platform does?
GGman wrote on 12/13/2006, 11:21 PM
discreet smoke and quantel iq

Grazie wrote on 12/13/2006, 11:44 PM
My point is, are these developed BY a NLE house? FCP (Apple)? Prem (Adobe)? AVID?
GGman wrote on 12/13/2006, 11:48 PM
They come as standard tools inside their NLE and you pay dearly for those NLEs. You asked what NLE systems have stabilzers built in.

bigrock wrote on 12/14/2006, 12:12 AM
The really really sad thing is if Vegas had actually working plugins you could use the free VirtualDub one. It's the one vastly glaring area where Vegas is a failure, let's hope they correct it soon. Your Home in the Rockies!
Grazie wrote on 12/14/2006, 1:55 AM
GG, I asked the question because I wished to hear-back just WHO and HOW these "plugins" are developed and thus inserted into an NLE. Here we are speaking of Vegas, and Vegas is now under the Sony banner. The plugins you talk of, were they developed by the NLE house or just the ability to be plugged-in? Just what is the approach of having plugins coming into Vegas? Look, I use Dynapel's SteadyHand - and very good it is too. But it aint a plugin. If I want to use it I HAVE to go outside Vegas and do the 4 step shuffle to use it! Prem users have the option of getting SteadyMove AS a plugin. What has been the policy, from Adobe, in allowing steadying software plugins?

And bigrock, yes. But maybe then again having a plugin would create more problems for Vegas than solve?

SimonW wrote on 12/14/2006, 3:08 AM
Just use a tripod.
farss wrote on 12/14/2006, 3:45 AM
Last two things I shot were both on a tripod and they booth could have used some deshaking! The 'earth' doth move sometimes.

However my wobbly platform problems aside, deshaking would give us a way more useful side benefit, tracking! I've been playing around with Beziers a bit lately, even got brave and tried having multiple masks, wow, very neat stuff and damn hard to work out how it works, what a twitchy thing they are but I persisted and think I have them mastered.

But unfortunatley what they and the 3D stuff could really use is tracking, then a whole range of very neat tricks are opened up to us. This isn't just for highend compositing either and I'll tell you why.

I just opened my wallet and spent up big on DJs generous Xmas special but then I realised a problemo. I've seen so much of this stuff used to make some really great corporate video but it was done in PPro and AE. Bummer, Vegas is just not going to cut it. Lots of those Jumpbacks have places to put your own elements, logos, vids etc. But they're spinning or moving AND in 3D. Sure I can do it manually in Vegas but what a time consumming PIA, hardly the sort of thing you'd spend an hour setting up only to decide you don't like the look of it and then go try another background.

So I think I've finally found a good enough reason to justify investing in DF or Combustion.

Except here's a gottcha. When I've got them I don't need Vegas to do Beziers or 3D planar etc. It's like they spent a lot of development hours to throw us a few crumbs but we didn't get the full loaf, just something half baked that if you want to make serious use of you've got to go elsewhere anyway.
apit34356 wrote on 12/14/2006, 4:29 AM
Farss, I agree that about the half loaf. Tho, I like vegas, I rarely use it the in last 2 years. Editing in Combustion for effects, is the way to go. Still, Vegas is could be more with an additional advance interface for keying,etc.

But to be fair, Vegas is a great deal vs. Combustion in pure cost. Vegas + AE+ plugins is still cheaper than Combustion.
JJKizak wrote on 12/14/2006, 5:32 AM
So what you are saying is to insert a clip on track one, insert the same clip on track two directly above track one, hit the "magic motion difference" button for stabilization with numerical correction settings 1 thru 100 and "stacato frame intensity button" and walla we have miracle stabilization? I like it.

Cliff Etzel wrote on 12/14/2006, 7:04 AM
This has been my #1 gripe with Vegas - I don't need alot of plugins, but I use steadymove ALOT in PPro due to the type of footage I shoot - alot of it is handheld - especially while freediving with my camera in a video housing - using a tripod is out of the question. I also use my camera handheld via my Figrig when shooting on dry land - For sheer straight cuts or dissolves - Vegas rulz, but I have found that doing more complex editing, Vegas frustrates me.

I have resigned myself to using PPro 99% of the time when doing editing tasks even though it's not as efficient as Vegas - it just does more - especially since I am now testing Red Giant Software's InstantHD plugin - it does a kick ass job of uprezzing miniDV footage to 720p HD... Combined with AE, I really am impressed with what I am beginning to accomplish

That means I'm holding out a little while longer now on the HD camera purchase... for the immediate future at least...
bigrock wrote on 12/14/2006, 8:41 AM
I hope the Vegas developers are getting the message from this and other threads. The lack of proper industry standard plugin capabilty leaves Vegas in the marginal category which is a shame because it has probably the best Gui out there. Your Home in the Rockies!
zstevek wrote on 12/14/2006, 9:21 AM
Which other NLE platform does?


Here are the manufactures that include video stabilization. They are consumer software bundles, but they do include stabilization.

Magix Movie Edit Pro 11
Pinnacle Studio 10.5
Ulead Video Studio

Magix even includes a comparison to Sony’s Vegas movie studio, so it is directly competing with Sony and one of the advantages listed is video stabilization.

SimonW wrote on 12/14/2006, 9:57 AM
Use a good tripod.
SimonW wrote on 12/14/2006, 9:59 AM
"- especially while freediving with my camera in a video housing"

Get a bigger unit that takes more effort to move.

Think about what you can do during production, not post production.
SimonW wrote on 12/14/2006, 10:03 AM
And all of them lose quality. With a lot of motion, the picture has to be zoomed. I'd rather just leave the footage as it was. With interlaced footage it has to be deinterlaced first, which loses even more quality.

Software stabilisers are a lazy solution and should only be used as an absolute final option when everything else has been attempted during production.
richard-courtney wrote on 12/14/2006, 10:32 AM
They have to be zoomed...
I don't see any other way without a black (or other color) band
where the image has been adjusted. I think that is why they
don't have one. Either option would generate video that people
would complain about.
Tech Diver wrote on 12/14/2006, 10:34 AM
Rather than have Sony invest in developing a de-shaker, I would rather they invest their efforts into completing the interface to third-party plugins. There are several free image stabilizer plugins available as well as high-end ones that can do a variety of advanced things. In my case I use Boris Red, which in addition to both translational and rotational stabilization, has corner pinning onto moving targets, duplication of moving targets (cloning one bird into a flock), or removal of moving targets (erasing a moving car from a street scene). These are all based on their underlying motion analysis filter in which they have clearly invested a lot of time. I consider these to be advanced filter features and not part of the nuts-and-bolts NLE.
Dan Sherman wrote on 12/14/2006, 10:48 AM
Don't have time to read all of these but in case anybody hasn't said so yet,----deshaker is already available in low tech form.
It's called a tripod!
Laurence wrote on 12/14/2006, 11:02 AM
I would also LOVE to see a deshaking plugin for Vegas. Deshaking is one of the few things I go outside of Vegas for.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 12/14/2006, 11:14 AM

I have to agree with Simon. After all these years and with all the advances we have, too many of us are still of the mindset -- "We'll fix it in post."

Plan, plan, plan, and when you're done... plan some more!

Post production stablizers will never replace a solid camera platform. They aren't post-production SteadyCams.

Bill Ravens wrote on 12/14/2006, 11:19 AM
i think it would be enough for me if Sony just took the plunge and converted their plugin format to be open source like AE or Premiere.
DCV wrote on 12/14/2006, 11:21 AM
I would also love to have the option of a good stabilizer in Vegas. There are so many things you can't control in event video. Small children or people running into or bumping the perfectly stable tripod is one of them. Granted you're going to lose a little image quality but the tradeoff well worth it. It would be a great addition to the Vegas toolbox and one less reason for me to look elsewhere for the capability.

farss wrote on 12/14/2006, 12:00 PM
To answer the original question, I don't think you could implement any motion tracking FX in Vegas without a complete rewrite of the code. I don't know of any FX in Vegas that works over multiple frames. Let me explain that a little better.
Every current FX in Vegas can be computed as a single frame, none of them require the next or previous frame to resolve the current frame.