Yes, but basic things like navigating between keyframes is more complicated

As with anything different and new, just have to get used to it. At some point (maybe) Sony will make it more Vegas-like. What is, is.

The keyframing in ProType Titler is much slicker and more powerful than before. Bezier curves on the keyframes have been missing from Vegas for a long time and finally we have them - maybe not everywhere but in the most relevant place, for making really smooth title / logo fly-in type motion.

I really like what they've created. The ProType Titler interface is really nice and easy to use. I love how it moves around as you select text so you don't have to do much panning and zooming. The output is very high quality too. I got smooth animation without having to use supersampling right out of the box.

But it's brand new and it has problems. Some seem unbelievable, like not being able to edit black text effectively? No way to copy/paste multiple keyframes for duplicating animation?

Workflow inconsistencies as compared to the rest of Vegas:

Big problems:
- CTRL+Z / UNDO function resets animation cursor to start - very frustrating when trying to create animation
- CTRL+Z / UNDO function resets zoom position of Text window - frustrating when trying to position / resize elements
* Black text is invisible in ProType interface - very frustrating when trying to make edits to existing text (edit: NEVER MIND THE PREVIEW BACKGROUND COLOR IS RIGHT OUT FRONT - duh)
- No way to copy / paste multiple keyframes (single keyframes have to be done manually by copy/pasting the value from the actual parameter)

Smaller issues:
* no "Scale about center" modifier [edit: OOPS JUST USE THE TOP/SIDE ANCHORS INSTEAD OF CORNERS - THX DAVE]
- no dropper to set gradient colors with color picker like other Sony gradient tool (dropper also missing from font color selector)
- no Microsoft/standard selection protocol (double click to select current word, double click and drag to select word-by-word)
- Safe frame guides are hard to see against black background

Wish list for workflow improvements (ProType 2.0?):
- change font/color/style without entering text edit mode
- multiple text-box selection for changing properties across multiple text boxes
- "auto-keyframe" mode (also known as "Animation" mode), which would automatically add appropriate keyframes whenever parameters are changed, eliminating the need to manually enable animation tracks individually.

All in all it's cool. There are no show stoppers and I can see this as being easy to teach others. Very commendable for such a sophisticated product. But I hope they fix those workflow problems that make it seem to not quite fit into Vegas.

This all supports the assumption that the titler was made by someone else. And the fact that the titler is not covered in the manual, only the online help, says it was rather recently finished, too. Which is okay by me. I'm an old customer and I know they will incorporate it better next time and get rid of the inconsistencies. They wanted Vegas8 out now and the got it out now. Thanks for that. Even my feeble internet connection here in Madagascar obliged by allowing me to download the beast in less than a day and a night.
Tor

* This all supports the assumption that the titler was made by someone else.

Had to be made by someone else. It doesn't look, feel, or act like a Madison App.

I welcome it but it will take some getting used to.
The limited presets that are included look like FLASH effects to me. (not that it's bad)

ProTitler is definitely NO LiveType.

"And the fact that the titler is not covered in the manual,"

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

ppl.. it seems to me that were seeing another rush launch here.. akin for V6 and NAB... cashing in on the EX hype and all wihtout even a decent manual

Im not being critical, but for an app which is trying to target a larger market, lack of manual (or details within the manual) is pretty stupid

Look at Avoid... opos i mean avid... You get a bloody encyclopaedia..

Know nothing of LiveType, but I've got half a dozen examples of text popping and accordianizing and flashing like neon and glowing and bouncing on one page and I've just scratched the surface.
My first impression is that ProType is powerful and gets the creative juices flowing.
Did the guys in Madison build it?
Don't know but the more I play with it the more I think so, 'cause its getting to be fun.
Compared to Cayman Graphics this program has a more organic feel, even if it doesn't have a Vegas workflow.
Not trying to be a Fanboy here, but I have to say I like it.

protype seems to use .net, so it may be a "plugin". It had issues previewing for me last night & a .net error windows was popping up. I don't care but that explains why it's completly different.

Perhaps we're seeing the future of Vegas. Vegas 9 could be ALL setup like that: looks, how it handels, etc.

Can I get some samples of what it can do? What are it's strengths and weaknesses? I guess what I'm looking for are some video sample: does it to animated text transitions?

If it does a Livetype kind of fly from behind camera thingy I'm sold. I have a mac on standby just for Livetype.

Have to agree with you busterkeaton.

First impressions are that there are lots of good things here (the OpenType support alone will save me a lot of visits to InDesign and Photoshop) but the user interface is hopelessly non-standard (typical of neither Windows nor Vegas), it's muddled, inefficient, and hardly self-explanatory. The documentation is completely inadequate.

There are also too many bugs...

I should be more pleased but can't help feeling disappointed. I can't believe the SCS user interface people (i.e. those behind Vegas' extraordinary elegance) aren't shuddering when they look at this.

I'll post more detailed complaints (and list some bugs) when I have a bit more time.

As with anything different and new, just have to get used to it - Soniclight

Why make it 'different and new' if there's no good reason? Does whoever wrote this think he has improved on the standard Windows list box?

Black text is invisible in ProType interface - CyberBen3dHiDefBoy

You can change the colour of the Background of course but that does mean going all the way back to the Preview Properties.

"auto-keyframe" mode... which would automatically add appropriate keyframes whenever parameters are changed

Doesn't it do this already (as long as the Toggle Automation button is selected)?

I agree with your remarks about all the inconsistencies.

I know they will incorporate it better next time and get rid of the inconsistencies - TorS

I hope you're right. They've never bothered to fix the bugs in the old titler even though they appear to be trivially simple to address.

I want to be clear that I can see that ProTitler has a lot of power to it.

But it seems contrary to design principles of Vegas.

Perhaps we're seeing the future of Vegas. Vegas 9 could be ALL setup like that: looks, how it handels, etc. - TheHappyFriar

I hope not. I won't be using it if it is.

Maybe when the 64bit version is released we'll get a refresh of ProTitler to fix some of the "rush to market" feel. Too much to hope for?

And by the way, for editing black text, what about the preview properties that first come up upon opening a new instance of ProTitler? Is that not working for you? You can set the preview inside ProTitler to a black, white, or custom background color. Doesn't affect the preview back in the vegas timeline.

please there is so much customizability with this titler, I have absolutely zero complaints. So it takes a little getting used to, don't like it, just go ahead and use the old one. but the fact that I can turn off and on key framing for each adjustment. I love that. and the parent child relationships in text - that's friggen awesome. Just give it some time (as will I) and perhaps I won't like it any more (but I'm pretty sure that's not the case). I'll most likely be gettin all crazy with the pro type titler :)

anyway - just give it some time and give it more than a day, (give yourself some base to complain from or find out that you like it)

Dave

You can change the colour of the Background of course but that does mean going all the way back to the Preview Properties.

Ahh there it is! Thanks I didn't see that setting. Would have been a good thing to put under the right mouse button context menu I suppose but no big deal.

"auto-keyframe" mode... which would automatically add appropriate keyframes whenever parameters are changed

Maybe I missed the toggle animation button... is there a "global" toggle animation button or do you have to enable it for each individual parameter you want to animate?

>>No way to copy/paste multiple keyframes for duplicating animation?

Is this to say that you can't CTRL-select multiple keyframes, copy (CTRL-C), then paste (CTRL-V)???

That is how other Vegas keyframing works.

I haven't installed VP8 yet. Still prepping.

Are there any online video samples of what it can do?

Has anyone used the abomidable Titlemotion from Inscriber and Livetype for mac to draw a comparison between the two?

>>No way to copy/paste multiple keyframes for duplicating animation?

That's what I was saying... yes. I see no way to do that in the titler.

Re the interface that doesn't look like anything else, have you noticed that the interface is very very similar to the look of the velvet matter plug-ins (you may not have noticed this if you don't have those plug-ins, which I highly suggest by the way). Anyway - I installed the latest plug-ins today from velvet matter since i saw that they had the Vegas Pro 8 plugs available, checked to make sure they were working in 32bit mode, and BAM it hit me, they look like the pro-type titler.

Dave