There's no knowing when or if there will be a V12, but my guess is this will be a CS4 -> CS5 story. Implement big core changes like the Open CL GPU accelerated Preview, and what do you get? a version of the software that is full of problems. I fully intended from the get go to support this new version for the simple fact that I knew it would likely be a full dev cycle before it really smoothed out. Quite honestly they aren't even asking too terribly much. Now that's not to say that I encourage throwing good money after bad, or anything of that sort ( I'm very frugal ), but I do support movements in the right direction even if they're full of growing pains, and occasionally putting perfectly good money into a product that is not giving me perfectly good experiences. Part of the truth is, it will never be perfect. But, I have to say that I kind of expected this version to be in need of a mulligan. I also never touched the NB Titler because that was a disaster from the get go by the look of it. Kudos to NB for bringing 3D text into Vegas, but the implementation was not solid enough for me to trust my income to them I'm afraid. On the Whole however, I expect that we will still have plenty of bugs left in 11 whenever/if ever 12 comes out, and when/if it does. I intend to support it as well, however if it comes out as unstable or less stable (God forbid) than 11, I will start to be getting put out, because you don't get two mulligans in a row :). That being said, I have used 11 on some projects for things that I needed/wanted the extra featuresets, but one thing to remember, is that you can always push back EDL's from 11 to 10 and you have all of your basic cutting brought into whatever version you want to open that EDL in.

Dave

Vegas 10 was like Vista. Vegas 11 was like Vista 1.1 (with buggy GPU support). Vegas 12 must not be Vista 1.2! SCS has already had 2 mulligans! Vegas 12 must be like Windows 7 was to Vista. Solid and faith restoring. It doesn't need a plethora of new features. Vegas's main enemy right now is stability. Unfortunately, SCS either doesn't understand this or have not taken the correct steps to correct this.

If no more patches to Vegas 11 are released, then SCS is forcing loyal Vegas users to pay for Vegas 12 in hopes that it will solve some of the critical problems with Vegas 11. Unfortunately, I have little hope that Vegas 12 will be any less buggy than 11 due to SCS's lethargy or inability to fix bugs, some of which have existed for YEARS!

For those of us who have been in the IT industry for more years than we can count....you do realize that beyond the craft of creating code- the software business is a business. I wish I had a dollar for every software title/and company that has gone by the wayside over these many years. IT IS A TOUGH BUSINESS.

I don't imagine any scenario in the current marketplace for any but a small number of players to remain. THE Time will come SOON- there is the beginning of a shake-out of NLE's and SCS division may take a hit in all the fray. IF Premiere CS6 proves workable on a proven hardware platform...oh well...!

It would be really interesting to know what percentage (even estimated) of people have major issues with Vegas vs. those who don't. In comments here on the board, people make statements more akin to political rivalry than helpful, accurate facts. The "no problem" folks continue to claim only a small percentage of users have major issues and that we are just a loud, vocal minority. When in fact it might be closer to the truth that a third or even half of Vegas users might have these major instability issues.

I guess there's no way for us users to know the real truth, although I suspect that SCS has SOME idea of what that percentage might be. And based on those statistics, one would think that they would set their priorities correctly, fix the bugs, in order retain that percentage of users, whatever it may be.

And I wouldn't even hazard to guess what that percentage may be (like some have done) based solely on these message boards. If I WERE to guess, I'd say the people with NO problems, were indeed in the minority instead of the other way around.

The phenomenon you see here is that it's the complainers who post. Those who have no trouble don't bother looking for a place to go say, "i don't have any problems". So the chances are that those with no issues are a much larger group than what is shown here in the forum.

there's always the possibility of user fatigue for not posting in this sort of thread ;-(

still with 11, but have cs6 loaded just in case.

"Those who have no trouble don't bother looking for a place to go say, "i don't have any problems".

Now I know why bars are always full of drunks.

Forums are full of folks with problems to solve. It's the nature of the beast.

Rob

>The phenomenon you see here is that it's the complainers who post. Those who have no trouble don't bother looking for a place to go say, "i don't have any problems". So the chances are that those with no issues are a much larger group than what is shown here in the forum.

I really hate posts like this. V11 is still not a workable product for many of us. No we aren't just a small group of complainers in a vast sea of satisfied customers.

To Jamon:

Do a forum search and you will find numerous other threads on this same subject. Basically the synopsis is this:

Try disabling the GPU acceleration. If that doesn't work, try running V11 in compatibility mode for an earlier version of Windows. If you have the New Blue titler or other New Blue FX, try uninstalling them. If you really like the New Blue FX filters (as I do) you are probably best off just sticking with V10 for the time being.

With the latest release of V11, I can do simple projects without too many tracks or filters inserted. If I push it though it will crash. I suspect that many of the people who aren't having problems aren't really pushing the program that much. I could probably do a documentary project without too much trouble in V11. The ads I do need a little bling though, and bling seems to crash V11 on my system.

Each release seems closer to being stable and I really do appreciate the SCS development team's effort. It's just not quite there yet.

kind of like reviews on a restaurant , bad experience = more likely to post a review... but 11 no work here, 10 is ok and sometimes i go back to 8..but no doubt 11 is working for many

I just want to know if I should buy the upgrade while it's 30% off this month. The latest versions of Vegas have been in sync with the year: 9 was released in 2009, 10 in 2010, 11 in 2011. They've been out in September or October usually. That suggests 12 could be out in 2 or 3 months.

I don't want to buy buggy 11, then buy 12 a couple months later. It'd be nice if SCS gave some clue about their plans and status.

Even though "problems" are the nature of the forum beast, it's the *type* of problem that's the issue. If Vegas weren't crashing then people would be asking why their renders are pillarboxed, or why their DIVX encoded AVI files only have audio in Vegas.

However, it's true that people with no problems don't post much and you do get a warped view of the world from forums.

As to whether v11 will be fixed before v12... v12 will have a release date on the calendar at SCS. They'll release it regardless of the state of Vegas 11. I'm sure there'll be more fixes to VP11 before then but if it's not flawless and bulletproof before it's time for 12 then that's just the way 11 will be left. This is the way it's played out in the past and I doubt it'll be any different the next time.

Rob

I just want to know if I should buy the upgrade while it's 30% off this month.

Vegas is usually released to coincide with a big trade show, either IBC in the fall or NAB in the spring. The last several versions came along with IBC.

If you really, really need Vegas 11 right now then buy it. If you don't then just wait until this fall, or next spring, or next fall. SCS will let you know a few weeks ahead of time when the next release is coming. The only thing to watch out for is buying it 5 weeks before the release, since they might give you a free upgrade if you bought it FOUR weeks before the release.

Rob

"If I push it though it will crash. I suspect that many of the people who aren't having problems aren't really pushing the program that much."

I have rendered more than 70 Blu-ray images using the Sony AVC codec in Vegas Pro 11. All of those projects were edited in version 9 and/or 10. That works.

Some months ago I went back and encoded an old youtube video in Vegas 11 to see how the presets for "upload to youtube" would work and to see what difference GPU assistance would make. I got the bug where the fade to black produced all sorts of weird artifacts. The problem was fixed a few weeks later by one of the updates, but the whole effort was a complete waste of my time.

This weekend, I attempted to render with the Mainconcept AVC/AAC codec and got a flurry of "black frames". This was on the same project and machine that I had just used to render the same material to a Blu-ray image using the Sony AVC codec. Another waste of time.

For about six months, I've been mum about version 11. I've stayed out of virtually all of the rants. My attitude has been that I will keep doing what I do and let the coders at SCS fix the mess that they shipped.

The thing that I miss the most on the forum since version 11 shipped is the camaraderie that existed in prior years when different ad hoc groups of people worked on projects to expand the knowledge of video and editing instead of harping on bugs in a program.

This is the last you'll hear from me on the subject.

If version 12 is just a few months away, I think SCS would be very wise to put whatever bugfixes they can into one last patch for V11, even if it's just a handful of fixes, if nothing else than to show customers that they've done their best with V11and aren't just asking users to get V11 fixed by paying for V12. Otherwise it'll be this all over again, but worse.

My biggest problems with Vista 64 bit were 3rd party drivers. When that was fixed everything worked just fine but it took a while. There is a parallel here with Vegas 11 and 3rd party drivers that drive it nuts. Just Nvidia alone there were at least 10 new drivers cluttered with 3D and Cuda. I would like to see a list of all the new 3rd party drivers required for Vegas 11. Maybe we need an "Auto Driver Adapter Repair Software Printout Device".
JJK

"The phenomenon you see here is that it's the complainers who post. Those who have no trouble don't bother looking for a place to go say, "i don't have any problems". So the chances are that those with no issues are a much larger group than what is shown here in the forum.
"

It's also possible that some customers discovered that V11 is unusable and simply moved on to another product without bothering to post here.

While it is true that the complainers tend to post, I tend to throw out the comments "it is junk" just like I ignore the comments "it is wonderful and Sony walks on water". I have purchased 8, 9 and 10 in the past and was ready to buy 11 (got Windows 7/64 installed etc). However, what puts me off is the number of clearly documented bugs and other issues that are NOT being fixed and the lack of response from Sony support on these issues. I was going to buy 11 ... I'm going to wait and think about it when 12 comes out. All forums or other public media have "noise" from people who are not happy about something, but major DOCUMENTED bugs that are not getting fixed (but send us your money for the new version) are NOT acceptable for me (I have spent many years in the hardware and software industry and am familiar with many of the issues of "bugs". Sony strikes me recently as working for the quick profit - cut support but put all the effort into rolling out the next thing we can get people to send us money for. That is usually a bad sign.

mikey

Yeah, I was silent for months because I saw others already talking about the issues. I figured SCS was aware and would sort things out. But even after the latest update, the trial crashed immediately, and Adobe Premiere CS6 was released, so I installed that. But it still seemed too much like old Premiere workflow, which feels stiff to me, so I didn't bother with it much.

I only bothered to sign-up to post here because v9 uses QuickTime to open AVC, v10 is no longer for sale, my v11 trial ran out, and it went on sale for 30% off this month. I prefer the Vegas DAW-style workflow, maybe just because it's familiar, but I'd still like to have Vegas and have it work with modern formats found in digital cameras today.

I'm not complaining, and don't view everyone here as complaining. There's a problem, and I only spent the effort to post here because I care and hope Vegas Pro continues to be an updated viable option. I watched as my favorite audio software was bought by a bigger company, was updated, then abandoned and now is becoming too out of date to be a viable tool today.

SCS is working on it, but people continuing to take the time to voice their situations, sharing information and experience reminds them people still care. Everyone with a Wacom tablet, which is lots I'm sure, would've experienced immediate crashes. Many of those probably did what I did and looked for other software. If everyone did that, Vegas would lose audience, and it could reach that point where it's not worth it for SCS to update anymore, focusing instead on some other market.

So by continuing to talk about problems, people are supporting Vegas Pro and struggling to hang on to what they don't want to lose.

I would say it is highly unlikely that VP11 will be sorted before VP12 is released.
The history of Vegas does not suggest it will.
You might get one more point release that will not address all known bugs.

They abandoned VP10 and ignored a petition to fix the replaced media bug when it was supposedly fixed in VP11.

Malcolm

"I would say it is highly unlikely that VP11 will be sorted before VP12 is released. The history of Vegas does not suggest it will."

ALL software of any complexity has bugs. The history of the ENTIRE software industry suggests that not all bugs will be squashed before the next release.

.... and if you do dare to post something along the lines that "I am not having these problems" then you get abused as being a 'fanboy or worse.

geoff

Maybe the solution to "fixing" Vegas 11 is Vegas 12?

I have been here from almost the beginning and I have to say, I have never seen so many complaints about a Vegas release as I have about Vegas 11.

John