http://www.g2play.net/store/Windows-7

Win7 Pro AUD 113, Win 7 Ultimate AUD 195.

Too good to be true, apparently not. Many local lads have been buying from there, all serial numbers authenticate just fine. I suspect they are reselling TechNet serial numbers which would not be strictly according to M$'s letter of the law.
That said today I moved a WinXP disk to a new system. XP complained it needed to be re-activated and online activation took 3 seconds no questions asked. It was an OEM serial number which according to the EULA should have meant my client needing to buy a new serial number.

Bob.

I've moved XP OEMs and haven't needed to buy a new serial number - they really only enforce that when you move it multiple times or if its the OEM that came from one of the bit 20 manufacturers - not for the private home builders.

> What versions of Windows 7 are people using?

I'm using Home Premium. I have no need for domain networking so the Professional version adds nothing that I need.

> Home Premier apparently doesn't have XP mode. How important is it to have XP mode for Vegas users who use many many tools like encoders, FX programs etc?

I'm running XP on Windows 7 right now using VMware. ;-) It's great for programs that don't have Vista or Win 7 support. I don't think it's needed for Vegas users.

You probably don't want Microsoft's XP mode anyway. It's based on their "Virtual PC" technology that isn't so great. What Microsoft claims is, "Windows XP Mode runs some older productivity applications that may not run otherwise on Windows 7". Did you read that? SOME and OLDER are the operative words. Why doesn't it run anything that XP can run? VMware can! I don't get it.

Also, Microsoft's XP mode might not work with your PC anyway. It depends on hardware virtualization in your chipset. They have a tool you can download to see if it even works with you hardware. This is like the bogus encryption that people paid extra for in Vista Ultimate, only to find it required an encryption chip that almost nobody had on their PC. Another useless piece of Microsoft technology. So you're not missing anything with their XP mode which might not even work for you.

VMware is probably the best virutalization software available today. I've been using it for about 4 years now. It's extremely robust in it's hardware support and even supports Direct X which Microsoft's virtual XP does not. You can buy VMware Workstation (like I did) or use the free VMware player to run XP on Windows 7. Use the EasyVMX web site to create the initial empty disc image and then boot it with the free VMware Player and install XP on it. That's all there is to it.

You can also use the free Open Source VirtualBox from Sun. It's not as robust as VMware but it's free. I haven't tried VirtualBox yet but I've read good things about it.

I've been running Vegas 6 and Vegas Pro 9.0 on XP in VMware from my Vista 64 partition all the time without any problems. This is how I test our VASST software for backward compatibility since I don't use XP anymore. The only restriction is that you can't capture via firewire. Other than that, it's great!

~jr

The newest version of VMWare for OS X also works a charm for running Windows 7, with everything working.

"IBM's OS/2 would have been today's standard OS for PCs" Probably....... I sometimes wonder if the senior management was a little over concern about anti-monopoly issues if they crush MS market share too much, I know there is no "love" for MS during that time or today either. ;-) But poor management has kill more than one project or companies in the past and will in the future. ;-) Just for Course, if we all try hard enough, create some info websites, we can point the finger to Apple for these faulures, especially for Me, then Vista, NASA budget issues, for Apple's AL Gores XXX sites! ;-)

Lets hope Windows 7 and Vegas9c solves a lot of issues for the masses.

Apple has what is perhaps the greatest operations guy in the entire computer industry (Tim Cook), but what makes a COO brilliant is being able to show the way from the present to the near future.

Apple also needs a guy like Steve Jobs who can take them from the present to a place where there are no roads, a place that is totally unreasonable to try to make it to (like when he was telling his engineers that it was possible to make a Unix computer with a nicely readable high resolution screen fed by a beefy graphics processor, with the whole thing fitting in a shirt pocket, including transmitters, receivers, and antennas for GSM, 3G, Edge, Wi-Fi, GPS (OK, no transmitter for that one), and Bluetooth.

Obviously totally crazy to believe that was possible, but he did it and then got Tim Cook to manufacture it by the bazillions with good quality.

I have great hopes for Windows 7, and am already giving it brownie points for being delivered with the same desktop background as the default for OS X, and finally it has a dock so I can access apps more quickly, and the UAC has been toned down so your blood pressure can remain normal

And it is overall more pleasing to the eye, compared to the neo-brutal visual design of Vista, and particularly compared to the very dated design of Win XP (which reminds me of 1980s web sites, I had one of them...).

So life is good!

Course,

Seriously, this is a Vegas forum and Vegas runs on Windows and ONLY Windows. You have posted over 350 messages about Apple on this forum and those are only the messages that mentioned Apple by name. There has been at least one per day in the last month alone. Sure seems like you're shilling for Apple here on the Vegas forum.

Course,

This is Vegas forum and this thread is about Windows 7. This thread is not about Snow Rabbit.

Are you going to run and buy iTurd when Apple releases it?

In the above case, I was joking with Course about being an Apple spokesperson and I was "blaming" Apple for MS and IBM poor decisions and other things ;-) So Course responsed as usually, but in a good matter but "Apple is great" post! ;-)

Sorry Course if I got you slammed! I like to think it's my job to torture West coast Apple lovers with roadkill humor! ;-) Apple gets its daily revenge thru my daughter and her friends...... ;-)

It's approaching Halloween, a little humor and good news about Windows 7 and Vegas9c is good to hear.

I have not installed vegas9 on my own pcs yet, but I will soon, I think. Windows 7 looks good, but so many apps and plug-ins to re-install............ ;-(

>"I've moved XP OEMs and haven't needed to buy a new serial number - they really
>only enforce that when you move it multiple times or if its the OEM that came from
>one of the bit 20 manufacturers - not for the private home builders."

Only buy OEMs & haven't had a problem, though for a while had to call it in with Vista when I was going thru a spell of bad m/boards [3 in a year - bad design (MOSFETs too small) & QC (batt draining]. As long as it was the orig. license holder upgrading systems I was told not a prob.

>"You probably don't want Microsoft's XP mode anyway. It's based on their "Virtual
> PC" technology that isn't so great. What Microsoft claims is, "Windows XP Mode
>runs some older productivity applications that may not run otherwise on
>Windows 7". Did you read that? SOME and OLDER are the operative words. Why
>doesn't it run anything that XP can run? VMware can! I don't get it."

FWIW... 7 can run just about anything you want to throw at it, though it may take a bit of work with some apps, but there are a few, & there's always the odd bit of hardware. 7's VPC is cool in that you can run apps in it without explicitly firing up the vm, directly from the shortcut. You can also boot to the vdisks. VMWare is nice, but harder to set up in 7, & not everything works yet AFAIK. Don't particularly like vbox, but that's just me -- it is awful popular.

>"I've been running Vegas 6 and Vegas Pro 9.0 on XP in VMware from my Vista 64
> partition all the time without any problems. This is how I test our VASST software
>for backward compatibility since I don't use XP anymore. The only restriction is
>that you can't capture via firewire."

For those that don't yet, the catch with running a vm in Windows is that the vm software plays man-in-the-middle, so any app running in the vm has to deal with for example the overhead of two OSes, is subject to the limitations & compatibility of the vm's fake drivers, & can only utilize whatever resources you can spare for the vm. While Windows hosting the vm is more convenient for testing etc, get better performance off a vm server (without Windows as host), & probably from putting XP (or other OS) installation on a bootable vdisk.

I've been working non-stop with Win7-64bit since Oct. 22 (sometimes even getting up at night to start on a new task).

First, the bad news:

Can't install numerous OLD programs (Adobe Illustrator 7 or 8, Acrobat 6, etc.). I need them for another old program - PageMaker, which - every 2 years - updates our main book that earns most of our income. Too bad, for my new Asus 9600GSO graphics card includes monitor rotation software, which makes it a lot easier to read the 2-page spread of 8-point type in PageMaker on my 2 monitors.

Horror story: So I called M$ to get Ultimate with it's XP simulation. Big mistake. The sweet girl explained that it would cost me $399.99 to upgrade my Win7 Pro to Ultimate. When I told her the local stores were offering Ultimate for about half that as an upgrade from any version of Win since 2000, she said "but I can't sell you anything except what my computer shows." Upon asking to speak to her supervisor, she said she was the supervisor. Grrr!

I think JonnyRoy's suggestion is the best: Install WinXP in a VMware virtual machine. I've used a Linux browser appliance running in VMware freebee for years - great stuff. THANKS for the link to the EasyVMX website!

The good news:

For vector drawings, I again looked at inkscape. This freeware is impressive. It does everything Illustrator does (except export to .EPS format, which PageMaker requires), plus a bit more. I played with it for more than an hour - very stable in Win7-64. I think it will be OK for creating drawings for Vegas (it can export to .JPG or .PNG).

I was able to get my old Photoshop 6 to install (will use it to create alphas in .PNG files, plus photo editing), plus Vegas 8c, 9c 32bit & 64bit. All seems to work well.

I was worried about 9c-64bit being unable to read .PIC codec files, and the PIC codec 64-bit costs about $200, but no problem occurred (Win7 must have its own codec for reading MJPEG files).

NeoScene seemed to install well, so will use it to create intermediates for .MP4 files.

Even my ATSC software & 64-bit driver for USB tuner seems to work well for antenna TV.

Quirks:
1. All files on all my disks except Drive C were marked "read only" - I couldn't edit them, nor could I undo the read-only attribute. Then I looked in the Security tab of the drives and saw that each failed to have a checkmark in the "modify" box for "users" (ME!). Once I edited the security settings for each drive, they performed normally.

2. For some reason, I keep losing my main two work disks (1.5 TB Seagates). When I reboot, they're there. Seems that started after I installed Google Desktop Search, but maybe there is some other cause.

3. My VMware browser appliance (Linux) says it hooks up to the net OK, but I can't get any URLs to load. Even after I disabled the M$ Security Essentials, still no go. ?? It makes me nervous to be spending this much time on the web without the protection of my virtual environment. . .

Hardware: I installed Win7 on an Intel SSD. Definitely the best part of this entire project. It's so fast - Win7 loads in about seconds after the BIOS does its thing (with about 27 programs installed), Vegas 9-32bit loads in about 8 seconds, etc.

>"Can't install numerous OLD programs (Adobe Illustrator 7 or 8, Acrobat 6, etc.)."

Shouldn't be impossible -- most everything will install if you set the compatibility of the setup file 1st, & very worst case, what I found is that if you monitor the install in XP (Vista works but XP's easier), getting the reg keys etc, almost always you can transpose reg keys over to 7 64's registry with the added wow64 section, & find the right place for any app data subfolders & content.

>"My VMware browser appliance (Linux) says it hooks up to the net OK, but I can't
> get any URLs to load. "

Had to set up Samba etc, & use network bridge, including adding Windows' bridge to 7's networking setup, using SUSE [the only *nix I could get to install properly]. I haven't gotten around to testing it yet, but I've got a few vms I've converted to Microsoft's vhd format. Since you've already got a working vm, might be worth a shot to see how it does in 7's version of MS Virtual PC, assuming you can get your hands on Ultimate. There's a couple of apps you can use for the conversion -- the 1 I'm trying is from Paragon.

Vegas runs on Windows and ONLY Windows

And Windows runs on PCs and Macs.

Many in this forum have stated they run their Vegas on Mac hardware, and quite a few of my posts have been to help these users.

The rest have usually been in response to someone else's post about how other NLEs do this or that.

I have no relationship with Apple other than as a user of a few of their computers. I don't own any Apple stock, and I couldn't care less if someone wants to use this or that hardware to run their Vegas on.

If as is the case for quite a few on this forum, they (like me) have to use Vegas and another NLE to serve their needs, I'd like to help when I can.

We could make a rule that no products manufactured by anyone but Sony are to be mentioned here, but then we miss out on VASST (which makes a living selling FCP training also), as well as NewBlue (sorry, can't mention them because they also make plug-ins for you-know-what).

And then there is Adobe. Many of us have to use After Effects.

Vegas can also do compositing, so does this mean that After Effects is a competitor that should never be mentioned?

What about using Vegas with cameras made by, say, Canon or Panny? Do we filter out those posts and have the forum generate an auto-reply message saying, "Vegas should only be used with Sony cameras, microphones, etc. Please do not mention anyone else's products."?

I think there is too much worry about this. If Sony didn't have this forum, they could have paid $10M+ to a PR agency to have this form of "social outreach forum" created for them, and it would have been worth it.

I seriously suggest that this is the best NLE forum in the English-speaking world (who knows about the rest). There is no forum for PP or FCP or Liquid or ?? that comes even close in the ability to provide fast answers to just about any problem.

I think a lot of people here appreciate "the high ceiling," because they have to work with other people who for whatever reason are using other products. This forum makes it a lot easier to evangelize Vegas, which I personally also do every opportunity I get.

I have to be specific at times about what Vegas can and can't do, but that's not different from the rest.

All NLEs have limitations, and there are good and bad things about all of them.

Vive la difference, as the English say!

VMware update: I just downloaded the latest VMware Player (2.53) and now it gets on the web without a hitch in Win7-64 bit host, using bagside's pre-built Linux 904 Ubuntu. Apparently the V2.52 that I had been using had a bug when used in Win7-64.

I also installed all my old apps in the Windows XP VMware machine and tested them last night. I was worried that PageMaker, which never turned pages very fast when I hit PgDn, might be really slow in the virtual machine. Wrong! It's at least as fast as on my P4 3gHz machine that I've been using for updating our publications for the last several years. All my other old outdated Adobe apps also seem to work flawlessly in the XP virtual machine. Life is good.

I did force Win7-64 to install Acrobat 6 (full version, not reader) by installing in XP compatibility mode, but - just as the Win7 warning message implied - it doesn't work so well: Other apps (such as word) don't show .PDF-creation as a printer installed to which I can print. But the Acrobat 4 (required for compatibility with PageMaker) works in the virtual machine, so no major loss.

Course - Exactly. I'm running Windows 9 and 7 on an Intel Mac Pro, and switch constantly back and forth between Windows 7 and Vegas and OSX and Final Cut. It's entirely relevant for those of us who use Apple computers as our base for Windows 7 and Vegas Pro.

And truth be told, I've never seen a PC built as well as my Mac Pro. It's constructed more like a German touring sedan than a computer. I will never buy another non-Apple PC (just gave our last PC to the in-laws) now that Apple can run Windows and OSX. Buying a Mac is like getting two computers in one. Good thing, though, given the price.... ; ).

I'll second that.

On the Windows 7 side, there's this nice surprise:

A developer has found an unfinished feature of Windows 7 that turns any laptop into a wireless access point, allowing other devices to share the connection without special software.

[Excerpted from Computerworld US]

>"And truth be told, I've never seen a PC built as well as my Mac Pro.
> It's constructed more like a German touring sedan than a computer."

No disrespect intended, I normally stay FAR away from any fan junk, but that's terribly misleading IMHO. Continuing in the car analogy vein, comparing a Porsche to a stripped Ford Fiesta, or maybe an old Pinto, yeah, there's a world of difference. And I'm sure your Mac Pro is better designed, has better components, & is put together much better than some slapped together PC (regardless how much it cost).

But anyone taking a few minutes to Google (or just check the Egg) will see there's much, MUCH better out there. There are far better cases, power supplies, graphics cards, & motherboards, not to mention cooling systems. Not trying to take anything away from the Mac Pro, but Apple made a choice: they could either maintain complete control & possibly make more money, or they could open the platform up to innovation -- there's no way Apple's crew, no matter how good, can/could compete with a world full of engineering talent. That's exactly why they made & make sure you can't install their OS on anything else [legally & without a hack] -- they knew & know they can't compete with the best the world has to offer.

Again, absolutely no offense intended to you Mark or any other Mac fan. There's nothing wrong with buying a boxed Mac or PC, just like there's nothing wrong with having one built or DIY.

>"I did force Win7-64 to install Acrobat 6 (full version, not reader) by installing
> in XP compatibility mode, but - just as the Win7 warning message implied
> - it doesn't work so well:"

While it might not make a big difference in your case [w/Acrobat], ***Sometimes*** it can make a difference how you've got UAC set in Vista/7 during install -- it can effect the app virtualization [as in virtual locations rather than VMs]. Depending on how much time & trouble you want to invest, I've had luck with some old apps by duplicating the app's folders for app data in additional locations -- where XP had docs & settings, Vista/7 have Program Data, plus the User folders (some of which are links rather than folders), plus the virtualization sections... sometimes the app just can't/won't look where MS thinks it should. You might also have some luck using Microsoft's app compatibility toolkit stuff -- if nothing else it might tell you more exactly where problems are. And as always, Google -- surprisingly often someone has already solved your problem(s).

Desoite the merits/shotcomings of Apple/Mac that crowd seems to cultish for me. I just never could get used to the apple's idead of a desktop, too much geeky-whiz bang, distracting, etc, etc, stuff going on. Like it was made for 15 year olds.

"And truth be told, I've never seen a PC built as well as my Mac Pro.

Umm, comparing the Mac Pro with an HP xw8600 Windows workstation that cost more than the Mac Pro, they are both well built, but the Mac pro is much more robust and more elegant with its all-metal chassis with cable-less disk drive sleds that just plug into the backplane (vs. losts of plastic in the case and loose cables in the HP).

Indeed like a BMW or Mercedes next to say a Toyota Camry. The Camry is a very high quality car, but you wouldn't confuse it with a BMW 550.

BOXX workstations are closer to Mac Pro workstations, but they'll set you back a lot more money.

I just never could get used to the apple's idead of a desktop, too much geeky-whiz bang, distracting, etc, etc, stuff going on. Like it was made for 15 year olds.

Where did you see this (and when)?

Sitting in front of an OS X desktop next to a Windows desktop, I find a Dock at the bottom of the OS X desktop and a menu bar at the top with all kinds of key information and functionality immediately accessible.

At the bottom of the Windows desktop, I see a Dock, er, Task Bar and a Notification Area (often incorrectly referred to as the "System Tray"). At the top of the Desktop, nothing.

The buttons in Windows' Task Bar confusingly sometimes represent documents and sometimes applications, whereas the buttons in OS X's Dock always represent applications.

(In all fairness, Microsoft has led the way towards making the buttons consistently represent applications, for example in MS Office.)

So I see no major difference, although I personally find the Dock to be more functional. But hardly life-changing.

MPM - your explanation of why I can't create .PDF files from Acrobat 6 in Win7-64 makes good sense; I'll keep it in mind and if I get in a tight spot and really need the create a .PDF from another app, I'll dig into it following your suggestions; thanks