>> wipe away all the things that lead us AWAY from happiness, fulfillment, satisfaction and contentment

We are, but somehow you are criticizing it. We are happier today than ever before. We have more avenues for fulfillment, satisfaction and contentment. All of this is better across the world than it has ever been before. Your concerns, such as cancer (due to longer lives), depression (due to better lives and more options) are all side-effects of things getting better. You can't expect that progress doesn't lead to new real or perceived issues. Of course they do. What you have to ask your self are the following questions (some of many)

Would I like to live reasonably healthy until 85 and die from cancer or die at 65 from a heart attack or 45 of old age or 5 of (today) preventable diseases. There is ONE reason for the increase in cancer, old age.

Would you like to suffer depression because the world is complicated and you are unhappy with your choices, or would you like to slave away in the mine and die of various lung diseases before you hit 40? What is best, struggling every day with depression caused by issues at work or struggling every day with panic because you have no idea what to feed the kids when they get home?

You are putting up false dichotomies all the time. You simply cannot have a "natural" life style with the health and longevity you enjoy today. You can have the "natural" life style, a short life, dead children, a spouse that died in child birth (very, very common only going back 60-70 years) and many, many days with nothing to eat and nothing to feed your children. Alternatively you can have a modern life with a perceived illness (depression) because work is hard.

Some items

Today: Sexting teen convicted of child porn
Then: Sexteen teen sold into child slavery, including regular rape

Today: Use of police in N.J. bridge scandal could be illegal
Then: Your supreme leader has taken all the tools you need to feed your children, so you have to give them away into servitude

Today: We know it kills: Why people still smoke
Then: No cancer from smoke, death by coal mine instead

Today: When plane went down, he took pics
Then: They jumped the transport wagon, killed everybody on it and stole the equivalent of half a days salary

Today: Twerking teen flash mob robs store
Then: Gangs of "police" rob all stores and kills owners who complains, governing body sides with the cops

I agree that these are all symptoms, but which symptoms would you rather have?

Terje, I'm coming late to this thread, but wanted to say that your responses are logical and thoughtful, and I am in almost complete agreement.

That said, I am also concerned that this thread has moved over into territory that is fascinating but also a bit dangerous, and probably shouldn't continue here because the topics under discussion touch on what are articles of faith to some. Just as challenging articles of faith in religion can engender angry passions so too can this discussion here, and perhaps we need to get back to video topics.

into territory that is fascinating but also a bit dangerous, and probably shouldn't continue here because the topics under discussion touch on what are articles of faith to some

like mac vs pc ;-)

>> perhaps we need to get back to video topics

Yeah, it became a strange thread this, for reasons that are too complicated to comprehend, the thread veered off into utterly off-topic territory with strong opinions on all ends. First time I've ever seen that in a discussion on the internets. Must be some fluke in the tubes...

I could add a big grin here to indicate the above was an appalling attempt at humor, but then again, that would be superfluous, would it not :-)

I agree with the need for an EOD here...

Why? The topic was created with wot, Well Off Topic in the title, is it not perfectly understood that it will have nothing to do with video subjects?

ok, let's get it back on topic as i wrote in the subject box.

if you don't like or disapprove of anything herein, simply IGNORE.

i didn't think i'd be opening such a can of worms, but i'm enjoying seeing another side of many of the participants in this forum - it's almost as good / bad as bring up religion / politics over dinner ;-)

my daughter has just produced version 1.2. as yet i see no improvement over 1.1, and the bugs in 1.1 have yet to be ironed out.....

>> it's almost as good / bad as bring up religion / politics over dinner

Funny thing dat. It used to be that gentlemen, after dinner, would retire to a suitable area, have a cigar, something to drink, usually of the brown and alcoholic kind, and then they would discuss exactly that, politics and religion. It was what men did. The women would retire to somewhere else and presumably discuss things like knitting, sewing, child rearing and the quality of the help these days.

Why is it that these days, topics that really matter and that should be discussed, is suddenly off limits? Have we become so self centered that we are offended by people expressing opinions that are different, or even opposed to those we hold our selves? Have we descended to a place where even opinions that are opposed by all rationally observed data are held to be as valid as more well reasoned and researched opinions? I am afraid we have, and it scares me more than anything (except falling huge asteroids - please check out the work of the B612 Foundation).

Now, back to "kids today". I am in line with your worries. The "outdoors" is changing for sure, and if it doesn't have good net connectivity, it is quite obviously not as attractive as I once found it. It first noticed some of this when I moved from Scandinavia to the US a decade and a half ago. Kids in the US (at least where I lived) lived quite different, and significantly more padded, lives from what I was used to.

Picking up the progeny of friends from daycare and kindergarten at times, the most "shocking" thing to me was that as I walked around the area looking at the kids (wearing summer attire) there were no scabs. Not a bruised knee, not a cut on the forehead not even dirty behinds. The kids were playing in entirely padded areas where the opportunity of earning a bruise were nil.

Going home for vacation one day I was at a playground with my brother and his daughter (around four at the time), and she was playing on a swing. The ground was covered in gravel, and some small rocks. I asked him if he wasn't worried that she'd hurt her self if she fell off, and he replied "well, if she does she's learned something". He was right.

Think about it, if you have something heavy in your hands and you drop it, your foot will jerk backwards instinctively. It's spinal. You don't have to think about it. Why does it happen? Because you have a spinal memory of dropping stuff on your feet and it hurts. However, what if you never drop anything on your feet?

The overprotective attitude towards our children definitely keeps them from harm and also keeps them safe. The playgrounds of olden times could be dangerous, kids could get (seriously) hurt. The problem is, by padding their entire lives, have they lost something? Something important?

I love picking up my almost three year old (If I call her two year old she gets upset) from daycare and finding out that all of her outer wear is filthy from sand, mud and puddles. I know she's not only had fun but she's been developing her balance, her running abilities her sense of touch and smell etc. It's all good. I picked her up once and she had a bruise after falling and hitting her face on something hard. She'd even bled a bit from her nose. No damage was done, no loose teeth. I loved to hear her bragging about what she'd done to end up in the situation. She told me in detail about the excitement of nose bleed. She proudly showed me her (tiny) facial bruise. I was thinking back to my time in the US and thinking, "that there would, for some parents I knew, be a law suit in the making".

For me a childhood and teenage should include scabs, bruises and dirt, it should include falling down from scarily high (for the kid) places, perhaps a sprained limb or even a broken one. It shows they are active. It should also ideally include the experience of chasing or luring an animal, killing it and eating it too. As a minimum a fish. How else will they learn how to handle themselves in real life and how else will they learn to appreciate nature in a realistic and real sense?

Perhaps that was a bit OT, but...

I love these kinds of discussions but felt the need to point out that positions have hardened over the past few decades on a number of topics. As such, associates who would otherwise be very friendly while discussing file formats, compression codecs, or optimum bitrates can get hot under the collar when touching on any of numerous "third rail" topics such as global warming, abortion, homosexual marriage, and so on. That, plus the fact that there are numerous other venues to shout at each other over the Internet on these topics would imply that perhaps these things should be discussed elsewhere.

In the old days when the men went off to smoke cigars and drink brandy, I suspect that they were of similar outlook and thus the disagreement in the room would be on a fairly genial level, for example not whether slavery should be outlawed but more like whether Teddy (Roosevelt) should use the Navy or Marines to rout those pesky pirates off the African coast.

EDIT: As for kids and injuries, rest assured that kids will still get cuts and (hopefully few) broken bones, just not at school where million-dollar payouts can be the result. In my own life, I remember being astonished and panicked at how much blood there was when my two-year-old daughter cut her scalp on the sidewalk. I never ran as fast in high school track. No wonder old people have white hair.

I also see the "off limits" of certain discussions to be a symptom of the problem of becoming less human. (although I do recognize how, in a public forum as this, it is extremely easy to really offend people with improper comments or opinions.... but if we remain civil it can work like it has here) IRL, I'm very open about all things and offend people on a regular basis with some remark or comment of opinion. :)

Another symptom of communications becoming misguided is that we PAY someone to LISTEN to us to help us with our problems (Therapy) rather than TALK to those closest too us. Think about that. Does that make any REAL sense at all???