@Dexcon I'll have to give it a try. I did write that I was still experimenting. As to why Boris has the default setting of 200% is something I'll message Boris about. If I get an answer, I will post it.
While I agree, using UpRes is extremely time consuming, the results have been quite good.
I'll try sharpening and color correcting next.
@Gid, the reason for changing the resolution to 1920x1080 in Event Pan/Crop on a 3840x21260 project is to show the actual size of the asset. An UHD resolution can have 4 1080HD in it. When using Boris UpRes, which by default is "2" and you use it on a 1080HD clip, it "expands" to it's proper size in the 4K project.
Having Vegas showing a 1080HD clip in a 4K project, full screen, at least to me, isn't giving me the accurate information in the Video Preview.
@Reyfox Hi, yep I understand that
Using Boris FX UpRes ML will resize the 1080HD clip to UHD 4K
But changing Pan/Crop to 3840x2160 you're making that event 4k, there's you're image in the middle & then transparency around the edge, then using Upscale ML to scale it up x2 that event is now 8k.
Don't get me wrong I'm not questioning whether this is the correct way to do it or not as I'm no expert, I've no clue, prob talking bollocks, but I think this is why VP render times are longer, VP is now having to deal with upscale twice, one with the Pan/Crop size change & once again with Upscale ML, VP is then having to crop it to fit in a 4k project/video when it comes to render .. 🤷♂️
@Reyfox ... I thought that I'd check BCC's user manual for the BCC+UpRes ML FX as I don't think I'd done that before. While not explaining why the default scale is 200%, it does provide some interesting guidance about using the FX:
Vegas Pro: To disable automatic resizing of clips go to the Project Properties, and ensure that “Adjust source media to better match project or render setting” is not selected. From there, you can import the clip at it’s original dimensions.
Does this actually work when adding 1080 to a 4k project?
Does this actually work when adding 1080 to a 4k project?
Interestingly, no ... well not with 720x576 MiniDV video or a 474x355 still. I tried all sorts of preference settings combinations in Video Preview Prefs and Video Device Prefs but the MiniDV and still image all remained at the project size in VP's preview window.
UNLESS ... very possibly what Boris is getting at is that when "Adjust source media ..." is checked, BCC+UpRes ML will read the event as being at the project size, but when "Adjust source media ..." is not checked, BCC+UpRes ML will read the event at the event's original dimensions (even though there's no apparent difference in Vegas Pro's preview window).
Remember that re-sizing (and de-interlacing if needed) of clips happens in the Pan Crop Fx that's always present in the Video Event Fx chain. If you want an Fx to work on the original (not re-sized) video then place it before the Pan Crop Fx.
If you want an Fx to work on the original (not re-sized) video then place it before the Pan Crop Fx
Sometimes it can be preferable to place it even earlier namely as a Media FX.
@Dexcon who would have thought about reading the manual!! 😂 Adding a 1080HD clip to a 4K timeline with "Adjust source..." not checked on a new project, the 1080HD clip appears full in Preview. Adding UpRes ML, and it is double in size with the default settings in Boris..
@EricLNZ I set the Project Properties to 4K, unchecked the “Adjust source media to better match project or render setting” (which seems to always be the default setting), and like Dexcon, no matter what resolution clip I added to the timeline, it appeared full screen in Vegas. Maybe this is a bug?
@ac6000cw it doesn't matter where UpRes ML is placed in the effects chain, it will double the size of the 1080HD clip on a 4K timeline. Vegas AI Upscale prompts you to place it before Pan/Crop.
Additional note. Even with unchecking the box in Project Properties, and using UpRes on a 1080HD clip that now appears to be twice the size it was in the Video Preview, the rendered video was twice the size of the original.
I left a message to one of the Senior Product Managers and am waiting on his response.
Adding UpRes ML, and it is double in size with the default settings in Boris..
@Reyfox ... That's what happens here too, but adjusting the Scale slider in the Video FX window down to 100.00 returns the display to normal. BTW, the user manual notes re Scale that 100 displays the image at its original scale. It also notes that Scaling can be manually adjusted - so the scaling setting is basically user choice. If scaling is greater than 100.00, framing can be adjusted using the Centre control.
Similarly, scaling and frame placement can be user-controlled n Vegas Pro's AI Upscale FX when added as a Media FX if the event is the same size as the project - or as an Event FX if the event is a smaller size that the project size.
@Dexcon thanks for the additional information. Strange that the default setting is 200.00, when adding UpRes in Vegas, Resolve, Avid produces the same result because the 1080HD on 4K timeline still shows up full screen before adding it to the clip, which doubles the size, pixels (and noise if present).
@EricLNZ I set the Project Properties to 4K, unchecked the “Adjust source media to better match project or render setting” (which seems to always be the default setting), and like Dexcon, no matter what resolution clip I added to the timeline, it appeared full screen in Vegas. Maybe this is a bug?
No. it's not a bug. The following from VP21's pdf manual explains what this setting is intended to do:
As @john_dennis said earlier
If you want the 1920x1080 clip to appear at its nominal size on a 3840x2160 canvas, enlarge the Pan/Crop crop box...
I've discovered you need to be careful with the values you type in if your clip doesn't have square pixels. The number in the Position list is the square pixel size required which VP then stretches out with the Event's PAR. Fortunately PAR only applies horizontally not vertically. So you can type in 1080 or 2160 for the Height. VP will then put in the required width for you. That's provided you have the crop box aspect ratio locked and the Source on Yes for Maintain aspect ratio.
For example in the image below this is a SD Widescreen 720x576 pixel clip which has a PAR of 1.4568. I'm placing it at its true pixel size into a 1080 project. With height as 1080 VP has inserted 1,350.0 as the required Width. 1,350 x 1.4568 = 1,967. Oops shouldn't it be 1,920? VP appears to have used a PAR of 1.422 to get to 1,920. Actually a PAR of 1.422 applied to PAL 720x576 is the correct PAR to get true 16:9 with a picture ratio of 1.7778. SD PAL Widescreen is actually wider than it should be with a picture ratio of 1.82. That's why SD WS and HD WS don't exactly match and we have the “Adjust source media to better match project or render setting" option we've been discussing.
I'm so glad we've moved away from stretched pixels.
@EricLNZ said: "I'm so glad we've moved away from stretched pixels."
No one is happier about that than me.
When a technician would adjust the horizontal drive of a CRT, it didn't make much difference. She would grab a diddle stick and make the display look good to the customer. My tool bag was stolen in the early 1980s and I never ordered a new one because I rarely worked on displays after that. Now that we've transferred a lot of video program material from that era to the digital domain everyone has to do algebra.
An Aside
Doing precise calculations is probably a waste of time since there's usually so much crap around the edges it's better to crop it out and let the material float in a 16x19 canvas. If you're an archivist, disregard my last.
Ok... I wrote to the Lead Engineer over at Boris FX. This was his answer about UpRes ML, what Vegas does with a 1080HD clip on 4K timeline, and if you plan on using UpRes ML, how.
"By default Vegas will automatically upscale the HD content to fill the 4k frame, but this means that you get zero benefit from BCC+ UpRes ML. If you set UpRes ML to 100 in that case (so it didn’t scale further) then UpRes is not doing any actual upscaling to the image and is just applying the post-sharpening pass. In order for UpRes ML to do its AI magic it needs to do the upscaling itself, and that’s why you need to manually set the Vegas Pan/Crop->Position->Width and Height to the final project size like you show in your screenshots. That tells Vegas not to do any upscaling itself and then that gives Upres ML the chance to do its thing. Sounds like you’re using it correctly."
Changing the Position (Width, Height) in Event Pan/Crop to reflect the 4K project setting, for a 1080HD clip is the correct way to use (if that is what you want) Boris FX UpRes ML. The results are better than Vegas Upscale, but you will pay for it with long rendering.