10Bit Video Switches to 8Bit Video after applying Video FX

Abubakar wrote on 5/15/2023, 7:28 PM

I am working on a short film and now its time to color grade it and apply Effects. 8 bit workflow works fine for me. but now i filmed everything in 10Bit XAVC-SI & 10Bit XAVC-HS In SLOG3 on my Sony A74.

i am using (Vegas Pro 20 Build 403)

My Project Settings are

HDR - OFF

Pixel Format - 32 bit floating point full range
Compositing Gamma - 2.222 Video
ACES version - 1.2
ACES color space ACEScc
View Transform - OFF
look modification transform - NONE
full resolution render quality - BEST
Motion Blur type - Gaussian
Deinterlace Method - None
Resample Mode - Disable Resample

I use Magic bullet looks for years its where i apply luts to transform SLOG3 to rec 709 then color correct color grade etc. it works great for all my 8Bit SLOG2 videos but when i apply the same method on 10bit SLOG3 video's i see banding in the sky like its a 8bit video. When i do the Same color grading apply same luts in Vegas Pros own Color grading panel on my 10bit SLOG3 Videos it seems to work fine no banding in the sky and when i switch to the same clip only color graded with magic bullet looks, i can clearly see its treated as an 8bit video.

Similar issue when i edit these 10Bit SLOG3 videos in Vegas Effects the moment i click edit in Vegas Effects its treated as 8bit again same banding in the sky. Even setting the project settings inside Vegas Effects to 32 bit float and saving it coming back to Vegas Pro its the same 8bit.

does anyone else have encountered similar issue.? I want Magic Bullet looks and Vegas Effects not to treat 10bit as an 8bit video. in my tests only Vegas Pros own video fx and color grading Pannal works great when color grading 10bit video.

Comments

mark-y wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:29 PM

Magic Bullet Looks is pretty old. May not have been upgraded for 32 bit float processing. You might contact Maxon / Red Giant and let us know what they say.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 5/15/2023, 8:48 PM

Not familiar with the Magic Bullet luts but you might be limited by the resolution of the lut itself. The size of the .cube file is a good indicator. If it's less then a megabyte, it's probably a low or medium res lut intended for view-finder use in-camera. It's just a text file that can be inspected with Notepad... here's what the size indicator in the header of a high quality lut from Sony looks like:

#Sony LookProfile LUT, SLog3SGamut3.CineToCine+709 full in full out v1.04.04
TITLE     SLog3SGamut3.CineToCine+709
LUT_3D_SIZE 65

I try to stick with sizes of 64 or 65 whenever possible. If you're stuck with what you got, tetrahedral interpolation might be a little better.

RogerS wrote on 5/15/2023, 9:36 PM

MBL may have an 8-bit pipeline in VEGAS though it appears to be 32-bit internally?

Under the hood Quick Looks incorporates Red Giant's DeepColor RT engine, which preserves the bit depth of your footage, so that 10-bit images remain 10-bit images. Working in 32-bit color space allows you to avoid bit-depth related banding artifacts.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/963244-REG/red_giant_mbt_qlooks_v_quick_looks_v_download.html/overview

Haven't tested VEGAS Effects- can you look at what it does to the media in MediaInfo?

Abubakar wrote on 5/15/2023, 9:54 PM

Not familiar with the Magic Bullet luts but you might be limited by the resolution of the lut itself. The size of the .cube file is a good indicator. If it's less then a megabyte, it's probably a low or medium res lut intended for view-finder use in-camera. It's just a text file that can be inspected with Notepad... here's what the size indicator in the header of a high quality lut from Sony looks like:
#Sony LookProfile LUT, SLog3SGamut3.CineToCine+709 full in full out v1.04.04
TITLE     SLog3SGamut3.CineToCine+709
LUT_3D_SIZE 65
I try to stick with sizes of 64 or 65 whenever possible. If you're stuck with what you got, tetrahedral interpolation might be a little better.

I have SLOG3 luts from sony but they aren't good when it comes to accurate colors i bought a SLOG3 conversion lut pack online which also fixes the green tint in sony cameras they are designed for 10bit SLOG3.the same luts work perfectly fine when i use it inside Vegas pro color grading Pannal it only has problems in Magic bullet looks.

i have the same issue when i apply Vegas Effects.

Abubakar wrote on 5/15/2023, 10:05 PM

MBL may have an 8-bit pipeline in VEGAS though it appears to be 32-bit internally?

Under the hood Quick Looks incorporates Red Giant's DeepColor RT engine, which preserves the bit depth of your footage, so that 10-bit images remain 10-bit images. Working in 32-bit color space allows you to avoid bit-depth related banding artifacts.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/963244-REG/red_giant_mbt_qlooks_v_quick_looks_v_download.html/overview

Haven't tested VEGAS Effects- can you look at what it does to the media in MediaInfo?

The new version on MBL is really advanced it has 32-Bit Processing and can be used for cameras like red or alexa its a great plugin for Vegas users i have been using it for years for 8bit videos it only has problems in10bit video and Raw it makes look like i am editing on a Pixel Format 8bit full range project the moment i apply the effect even thought my project remains remains 32 bit floating point full range.

as for Vegas Effects it doesn't change anything the media info it remains the same. its only done to the clip on the Vegas pro timeline when i apply the effect i immediately see banding in the sky on the selected clip when i click undo it immediately disappears.

Abubakar wrote on 5/15/2023, 10:07 PM

Magic Bullet Looks is pretty old. May not have been upgraded for 32 bit float processing. You might contact Maxon / Red Giant and let us know what they say.

I think your familiar with thew new version. have a look and it does support 32 bit.

https://www.maxon.net/en/red-giant/magic-bullet

RogerS wrote on 5/15/2023, 10:44 PM

as for Vegas Effects it doesn't change anything the media info it remains the same. its only done to the clip on the Vegas pro timeline when i apply the effect i immediately see banding in the sky on the selected clip when i click undo it immediately disappears.

I don't understand this- VEGAS Effects is a separate program for compositing and I think you have to render out the video with changes to use it again in VEGAS.

Could you share a screenshot of exactly what you are doing?

fr0sty wrote on 5/16/2023, 12:55 AM

MBL might support 32 bit, but their vegas plugin might not. Worth contacting the manufacturer of Magic Bullet and asking.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 5/16/2023, 3:23 AM

Frankly spoken, I would do that all inside Vegas - the new Color Grading Portal in an 32bit ACES workflow works, but may be difficult for older PCs due to performance issues.