32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 1/25/2023, 7:48 PM

To be clear, we're referring to the color curve dedicated effect in the vegas effects menu, and not the color curves nested into the color grading panel, correct?

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Illusion wrote on 1/25/2023, 7:50 PM

To be clear, we're referring to the color curve dedicated effect in the vegas effects menu, and not the color curves nested into the color grading panel, correct?

Correct. I don't see the problem if I use a color curve from the CGP.

Last changed by Illusion on 1/25/2023, 7:53 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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fr0sty wrote on 1/25/2023, 8:18 PM

OK, I seem to remember the old color curve effect being from a very ancient version of VEGAS (perhaps even the first to offer video?) and it was never updated to be compatible with 10 bit media, so you need to use the CGP one to not have it mess up your media. That said, I only remembered it clamping nit values to 100 nits when editing HDR, as if it were 8 bit media... not causing decoding errors. I'd still recommend against using it for anything above 8 bit. The CGP panel one is better anyway, it's easier to make edits to the bezier points and such, as the handles are displayed larger.

Last changed by fr0sty on 1/25/2023, 8:21 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

ALO wrote on 1/25/2023, 8:25 PM

OK, I seem to remember the old color curve effect being from a very ancient version of VEGAS (perhaps even the first to offer video?) and it was never updated to be compatible with 10 bit media, so you need to use the CGP one to not have it mess up your media. That said, I only remembered it clamping nit values to 100 nits when editing HDR, as if it were 8 bit media... not causing decoding errors. I'd still recommend against using it for anything above 8 bit. The CGP panel one is better anyway, it's easier to make edits to the bezier points and such, as the handles are displayed larger.

The Vegas Color Curves plugin is listed in the 32-bit compatible fx panel, so I think it ought to work in 32-bit mode. Are you suggesting we should ignore this?

fr0sty wrote on 1/25/2023, 8:28 PM

no, but I am suggesting another, even better alternative already exists, which you can use on your projects right now without having to wait for the color curves fx to be updated.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

ALO wrote on 1/25/2023, 9:34 PM

I appreciate you pointing out a viable workaround.

I do, however, prefer to work with the old-school fx interface, and if Magix is intending to deprecate it, I would appreciate formal notification of that.

fr0sty wrote on 1/25/2023, 9:40 PM

I doubt they do plan to deprecate it, they just haven't got around to updating it yet. It may be a little while, since there is another better working color curves option currently available, but they will get to it. I'll make sure they know this is happening.

RogerS wrote on 1/26/2023, 1:27 AM

I doubt it's being deprecated but 32-bit has changed over time with new modes like ACES and HDR and there are a number of legacy Fx that have yet to be updated. I'm hoping for an overhaul myself so we're left with tools that just work.

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fr0sty wrote on 1/26/2023, 2:01 AM

I have heard the developers openly discuss on the forums that they planned on taking a break on new features eventually to do just that, so all we can do is wait and see... they did just dump a ton of new features on us, so maybe now's a good time for that internal rebuilding to take place.

ALO wrote on 1/26/2023, 9:26 AM

I thought this last update was the "stability" one but maybe I misunderstood that.

@Illusion as it happens I have an A7C also and didn't think to test it. Unfortunately (fortunately??), I can't replicate this with clips from my A7C. My body is running firmware version 2.0. Maybe your camera is running an older firmware version?

Illusion wrote on 1/26/2023, 9:29 AM

No, FW 2.0 here

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Illusion wrote on 1/26/2023, 9:35 AM

I thought this last update was the "stability" one but maybe I misunderstood that.

This is useless.

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RogerS wrote on 1/26/2023, 9:36 AM

The HEVC fix was the heart of the update and for stability.

I'm happy they kept building out features like the color grading panel selective color abilities too as it felt incomplete at launch.

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Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (driver 31.0.101.2115), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

Vegas 19.648
Vegas 20.236

VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

ALO wrote on 1/26/2023, 9:58 AM

The HEVC fix was the heart of the update and for stability.

I'm happy they kept building out features like the color grading panel selective color abilities too as it felt incomplete at launch.

Well, me being old-school Vegas I'd love to see the curves-vs-curves features in the grading panel available as an fx for the traditional clip-based fx chain.

Here's a share link for a clip from my RX100 M5 if anyone wants to play around with it:

https://ufile.io/7io8ksdy

Click the "free" download option. That should be available for up for 30 days and claims no malware.

To replicate, open Vegas, drag the clip onto the timeline (I have properties set to automatically match). Add the Color Curves FX at the clip level, then drag the left handle to brighten/darken the image. Everything should look fine. Now change the project properties to 32-bit video levels, go back and drag the handle around again.

If you're going to see it, it'll be obvious.

Illusion wrote on 1/26/2023, 10:00 AM

Well, me being old-school Vegas I'd love to see the curves-vs-curves features in the grading panel available as an fx for the traditional clip-based fx chain.

Here's a share link for a clip from my RX100 M5 if anyone wants to play around with it:

https://ufile.io/7io8ksdy

Click the "free" download option. That should be available for up for 30 days and claims no malware.

To replicate, open Vegas, drag the clip onto the timeline (I have properties set to automatically match). Add the Color Curves FX at the clip level, then drag the left handle to brighten/darken the image. Everything should look fine. Now change the project properties to 32-bit video levels, go back and drag the handle around again.

If you're going to see it, it'll be obvious.

This is useful.

  • ASUS ROG Strix X570-E
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  • 1TB SATA3 SSD for projects
  • 2TB SATA3 SSD for additional media
  • 4TB WD Red drive for local cache
  • 10TB EXOS enterprise drive for local cache
  • 32in 4K main monitor, 24in 1080 second
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  • Sony a6000
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Illusion wrote on 1/26/2023, 10:42 AM

I can repro the problem you had.

  • ASUS ROG Strix X570-E
  • Ryzen 9 3900x 12-core
  • 64GB RAM (2x32GB)
  • Nvidia RTX 2070 8GDDR6
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for OS/Prog
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for Media
  • 1TB SATA3 SSD for projects
  • 2TB SATA3 SSD for additional media
  • 4TB WD Red drive for local cache
  • 10TB EXOS enterprise drive for local cache
  • 32in 4K main monitor, 24in 1080 second
  • Win 11 Pro
  • 28TB NAS for long term archive storage
  • Sony a6000
  • Sony A7C
  • GoPro Hero 8
  • GoPro Hero 11
  • Sony BRAVIA XR X90J 75" 4K HDR10
  • JBL Bar 5.1

 

Illusion wrote on 1/26/2023, 10:52 AM

 

@Illusion as it happens I have an A7C also and didn't think to test it. Unfortunately (fortunately??), I can't replicate this with clips from my A7C. My body is running firmware version 2.0. Maybe your camera is running an older firmware version?

Small update here. The problem with A7C black frames I posted was with 32bit Full Range. If I use 32bit Video Levels, I have no issues.

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  • 64GB RAM (2x32GB)
  • Nvidia RTX 2070 8GDDR6
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for OS/Prog
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for Media
  • 1TB SATA3 SSD for projects
  • 2TB SATA3 SSD for additional media
  • 4TB WD Red drive for local cache
  • 10TB EXOS enterprise drive for local cache
  • 32in 4K main monitor, 24in 1080 second
  • Win 11 Pro
  • 28TB NAS for long term archive storage
  • Sony a6000
  • Sony A7C
  • GoPro Hero 8
  • GoPro Hero 11
  • Sony BRAVIA XR X90J 75" 4K HDR10
  • JBL Bar 5.1

 

j-v wrote on 1/26/2023, 10:56 AM

@ALO 
On my laptop I don't see it, look

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fr0sty wrote on 1/26/2023, 12:04 PM

I thought this last update was the "stability" one but maybe I misunderstood that.

@Illusion as it happens I have an A7C also and didn't think to test it. Unfortunately (fortunately??), I can't replicate this with clips from my A7C. My body is running firmware version 2.0. Maybe your camera is running an older firmware version?

The HEVC crash fix was the only major crash that was affecting pretty much everyone prior to the update, they can tell how many people are affected by a certain bug by looking at crash reports... and that one was so widespread that they retroactively fixed it in 19 as well.

Look at that new feature list on this last update, VEGAS 20 didn't have a list that long when it launched. I imagine this was rounding out the new features they'd hoped to add to 20 when it launched, but didn't have time to.

ALO wrote on 1/26/2023, 6:36 PM

@ALO 
On my laptop I don't see it, look

j-v try it in project-properties --> pixel formal --> 32-bit floating point (video levels).

I don't ever work in 32/full -- sounds like that's where illusion noticed an issue with A7C footage. I'll see if I can repo that

my main system is a current Dell XPS laptop with an NVIDIA GPU enabled

j-v wrote on 1/27/2023, 5:24 AM

j-v try it in project-properties --> pixel formal --> 32-bit floating point (video levels).

I did and saw no difference.
So no problems on Laptop from signature

 

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 22H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver 528.49 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver
gfx_win_101.2115
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 22H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 522.30 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver gfx_win_101.2115 
Vegas software: VP 10 to 20 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17 are installed, all latest builds
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR !!!
 

set wrote on 1/27/2023, 7:04 AM

@ALO 
On my laptop I don't see it, look

j-v try it in project-properties --> pixel formal --> 32-bit floating point (video levels).

I don't ever work in 32/full -- sounds like that's where illusion noticed an issue with A7C footage. I'll see if I can repo that

my main system is a current Dell XPS laptop with an NVIDIA GPU enabled

 

Reproed

Yelandkeil wrote on 1/27/2023, 8:04 AM

32-bit floating point mode

 

ACES/sRGB mode

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Yelandkeil wrote on 1/27/2023, 8:11 AM

Big Sigh!

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 1/27/2023, 8:27 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus Bios3002: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO 512GB>sys + 2TB>data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT + AdrenalinEdition 23.3.2 (WHQL) 
Samsung 2xLU28R55 10bit4k60Hz 300CD/m²HDR10 
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

ProtuneFlat_2.7k60pLinear: WB=5500K, ISO=400, Shutter=Auto, EV_Comp-1.0, Sharp=Low 

Windowspro 10.0.19045.2728
DirectX 12_2 Ultimate, Direct3D11Package installed 
OpenCL Driver 31.0.14043.1000 

Vegaspro20 + Handbrake/XMediaRecode + DVDArchi7 
Acidpro10 + SoundForgepro14.0.0.65 + SpectraLayerspro7 

K-LitecodecPack17.4.5 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback)