32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering

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Yelandkeil wrote on 1/27/2023, 8:46 AM

@set, got your email; if you understand the differences between the 2 modes I replied above, then you've got why I deleted all my posts in that thread.

If not, we really needn't to explain each other...it's just basic Knowledge no idea why so confusing.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

fr0sty wrote on 1/27/2023, 10:40 AM

@Yelandkeil I notice you aren't setting the color space on your media when in 32 bit full range. Doing so works wonders with certain media types, such as LOG footage.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Yelandkeil wrote on 1/27/2023, 12:33 PM

32bit floating mode or what you call, does only accept LUT if footage others than Rec/sRGB space.
Why?
Because 32bit mode doesn't have the AP1-master-channel.
Footage from other space must change themselves to fit the sRGB/Rec709 (in 32bit floating point computing) environment.
What is input-LUT: Fabricated Rec709 look-up profile/table.

What is IDT:

ACES/sRGB mode can only accept IDT because of the master-pipeline AP1-space.
In ACES, everything MUST use IDT including Rec709/sRGB footage. LUT here is Bull***t.

sRGB (ACES) is the VIEW-transform for your computer monitor. That's why view-transform always marked in (ACES).

I'm going crazy these days...

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 1/27/2023, 12:59 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

ALO wrote on 1/27/2023, 1:11 PM

Just want to emphasize that this thread specifically focuses on an issue related to Vegas' 32-bit video levels mode.

32FR gets into ACES stuff which is another topic entirely

Yelandkeil wrote on 1/27/2023, 1:16 PM

@ALO, pardon me! I'm crazy these days...really.

Just curious, isn't 32bit video levels mode only for (8bit legacy) rendering? Or since when is it an editing mode?

 

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 1/27/2023, 1:20 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

Yelandkeil wrote on 1/27/2023, 1:27 PM

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

VEGASNeal1 wrote on 1/27/2023, 5:02 PM

@ALO Thanks for bringing this problem to our attention. I am able to reproduce it as you initially described. Yes this is a bug and I will add a report to our defect tracking system so it can be fixed in a future release. As others recommended, it would be best to use the color curve section of Color Grading instead of the classic Color Curves plugin in 32-bit projects.

Yelandkeil wrote on 1/28/2023, 10:57 PM

Further investigation:
Flicker occurs also in 32bit-full (linear gamma) mode when using the legacy Curves.

In addition to this, the 32bit-full-linear mode doesn't render out correct Rec709-productions. Its signal levels are 16-255 instead of 16-235 (I think this does exist from day one on).

In ACES mode with View-Transform "sRGB (ACES)" - which mixed up as 32bit mode by many people - it occurs signal truncation as @john_dennis described.

I used XAVC UHD from a Sony RX10-IV in a 32bit video level project to follow your instructions.

It happens.

I make no representation about what it is.

@VEGASNeal1

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 1/28/2023, 11:37 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

ALO wrote on 1/29/2023, 12:27 PM

Nobody out-crazies me :)

Yelandkeil wrote on 1/29/2023, 12:37 PM

Nobody out-crazies me :)

Ain't we meaning the same thing? 😄😄

You emphasize the characteristic and I point out the workflow.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

ALO wrote on 2/3/2023, 6:16 PM

@ALO Thanks for bringing this problem to our attention. I am able to reproduce it as you initially described. Yes this is a bug and I will add a report to our defect tracking system so it can be fixed in a future release. As others recommended, it would be best to use the color curve section of Color Grading instead of the classic Color Curves plugin in 32-bit projects.


@VEGASNeal1 unfortunately I have been able to replicate this problem with 10-bit 422 4k XAVC HS (HEVC) 60P 100 Mbps footage shot on a Sony FX30. In this new case, the issue occurs when the Color Curves fx is preceded by a levels fx and a Color Correction (Secondary) fx with a chrominance adjustment.

This issue may be a little deeper than it first appears. Please PM me if you want a project file and source clip.

ALO wrote on 3/5/2023, 9:55 AM

@ALO Thanks for bringing this problem to our attention. I am able to reproduce it as you initially described. Yes this is a bug and I will add a report to our defect tracking system so it can be fixed in a future release. As others recommended, it would be best to use the color curve section of Color Grading instead of the classic Color Curves plugin in 32-bit projects.


@VEGASNeal1 unfortunately I have been able to replicate this problem with 10-bit 422 4k XAVC HS (HEVC) 60P 100 Mbps footage shot on a Sony FX30. In this new case, the issue occurs when the Color Curves fx is preceded by a levels fx and a Color Correction (Secondary) fx with a chrominance adjustment.

This issue may be a little deeper than it first appears. Please PM me if you want a project file and source clip.

This is also occurring in 32-bit Full Range projects with the media and project settings otherwise as described in the quote above :(

I'll add more details and maybe a clip & sample VEG file to download in the coming week