32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering

ALO wrote on 12/9/2022, 7:31 PM

I'm seeing a crazy brightness flicker happening on renders to 4k mp4 when my project is set to 32-bit video levels. 8-bit renders are working fine. I just switched to new hardware, so can't rule out the possibility that it isn't a Vegas issue, but I haven't seen this problem before and everything else in my project is typical of my workflow.

Anyone seen anything like this? On the timeline (not while rendering), when I walk through frames with the arrow keys, *some* of the frames will suddenly darken. If I shuttle forward a bit, and then return to the dark frame, it appears normal. So it's not even consistent to frame numbers. Vegas...sigh.

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 12/9/2022, 7:34 PM

What source media are you using? Is it 8 bit or higher video? What color space was it shot in? If you don't know these things, download mediainfo and post the report it generates for your media here.

Then, what is your hardware? Exact project settings (screenshot is preferable)? Any effects used in your project?

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

ALO wrote on 12/10/2022, 10:25 AM

OK, looks like it's a bug.

Sony X-AVC 4K source from an older RX100. Add to timeline in 32-bit video project, add color curves fx at the clip level, drag the curve so the shadows darken, then just walk through the frames, and individual frames will randomly darken. Workaround is render out to an intermediate in a different codec. I created an HD intermediate using the Sony AVC template, and that at least did not display the same flickering.

Musicvid wrote on 12/10/2022, 10:40 AM

What source media are you using? Is it 8 bit or higher video? What color space was it shot in? If you don't know these things, download mediainfo and post the report it generates for your media here.

The question was about the bit depth and color space of your camera source. If you're not sure, use MediaInfo.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

ALO wrote on 12/10/2022, 10:56 AM

It's a bug, not confusion about media bit depth

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 12/10/2022, 11:00 AM

I work pretty much exclusively with video-level media with projects set to 32-bit and have seen a similar issue with clip fades... I noticed when a key-frame is at the exact end of a clip-fade (snapping enabled), that there might be a level drop at that specific point. This throws off my setting any animated level-adjustment fx controlled by that keyframe. Doesn't seem to happen if quantize to frames is left on all the time. I think because that forces the fades to end at frame boundaries and keyframes to snap to an exact no-fade point.

Musicvid wrote on 12/10/2022, 11:04 AM

It's a bug, not confusion about media bit depth

Suit yourself. "Confusion" would only arise if one were placing 8 bit integer source in a 32 bit float project.

ALO wrote on 12/10/2022, 12:57 PM

It's a bug, not confusion about media bit depth

Suit yourself. "Confusion" would only arise if one were placing 8 bit integer source in a 32 bit float project.

I appreciate you have you own ideas about how math works. I don't share them.

ALO wrote on 12/10/2022, 1:01 PM

I can replicate this with footage from my Sony A7C also. I'm attaching a screenshot of the media properties.

To replicate the bug:

put a clip on the timeline. set project settings to 32-bit video. set preview setting to best-full. add color curves fx at clip level and drag the curve to darken the shadows. using the arrow keys, scrub through the clip. For me, this results in a dramatic random brightness shift -- almost like a levels conversion is happening randomly at the individual frame level.

So far, I have not been able to replicate this with any of the Vegas render templates, including XAVC and Main Concept AVC

 

john_dennis wrote on 12/10/2022, 3:14 PM

@ALO

I used XAVC UHD from a Sony RX10-IV in a 32bit video level project to follow your instructions.

It happens.

I make no representation about what it is.

Musicvid wrote on 12/10/2022, 4:39 PM

I got some rx100 XAVC-S 8-bit footage from a friend, and the behavior is not evident in 8-bit projects, at least with that sample.

ALO wrote on 12/11/2022, 10:53 AM

I got some rx100 XAVC-S 8-bit footage from a friend, and the behavior is not evident in 8-bit projects, at least with that sample.

Yes -- not happening when project properties set to 8-bit.

This is some kind of interaction with 8-bit XAVC, the color curves fx, and the 32-bit video levels project setting.

I'll keep playing with other 8-bit formats to see if I can get it to happen with something other than clips from my Sony cameras.

RogerS wrote on 12/11/2022, 10:28 PM

Interesting, does it also happen with color curves in the color grading panel?

I tested with X-AVC S media from the RX100IV (1080p) on a 32-bit video levels timeline with Vegas 19.550 and don't see an issue with playback or scrubbing through a frame at a time. NVENC render looked fine.

With a6600 X-AVC S UHD media on 32-bit levels it seems okay with preview/auto. With best/full it keeps blacking out as my laptop can't keep up. Scrubbing frame by frame I couldn't find problems. NVENC render (1080p) looked fine.

My system details are in my signature (XPS 9560) in case this is a video card/driver specific issue. I'm Intel/NVIDIA here.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (256GB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

ALO wrote on 12/12/2022, 9:52 AM

Interesting, does it also happen with color curves in the color grading panel?

Roger what a great question! I just checked and it does *not* happen w/curves in the grading panel. So there's a workaround.

For me, the flickering occurs even just dragging the fx color curves handle around (and changing the contrast levels). I am using an NVIDIA GPU (RTX 3050 Ti Laptop) which is quite powerful.

ALO wrote on 1/25/2023, 8:52 AM

This issue persists in the current build (326) -- the source media is a Sony XAVC 8-bit clip from my RX100 M5.

I think it's directly related to the Color Curves fx (the plugin, not the curves in the color grading panel). The CC fx may also be responsible for the brightness flickering I'm seeing working with 10-bit HEVC footage.

If it would be helpful, I can post a link to a test clip from my RX100, but I believe others were already able to replicate this.

If you don't want to scroll through above, the issue happens when 8-bit XAVC is placed on a timeline with project properties set to 32-bit video levels, and a CC fx is applied at the clip level.

j-v wrote on 1/25/2023, 9:30 AM

This issue persists in the current build (326)

I'm not seeing that when I try to follow your steps ( I hope).
Look when trying on my laptop

 

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
551.61 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 551.61 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

ALO wrote on 1/25/2023, 11:32 AM

I'm going to try to see if I can replicate this on several other machines, and esp with footage rendered directly out of Vegas. Those RX100 files are from an old camera, so this may otherwise not be worth pursuing...

ALO wrote on 1/25/2023, 2:52 PM

I can replicate this on my other machines (which have different GPU's), but only for the Sony RX100 clips. 8-bit Sony XAVC S from my FX30 works fine. So I can live with that.

The RX100 M5 is a relatively old camera (2019ish?), and maybe there's something funny about those old files. If this appears with any other format I use, I'll make a note of it, otherwise probably nothing worth bothering with here.

j-v wrote on 1/25/2023, 2:56 PM

@ALO, are you able to place such a short file on a webshop so I can download it to do the same test?

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 23H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
551.61 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 551.61 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2127
Vegas software: VP 10 to 21 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

fr0sty wrote on 1/25/2023, 3:03 PM

Yes, please post a sample, we will all test it, determine what the common factors between the machines showing the issue are, and that will give the development team a nice head start towards figuring out the source of the problem and getting it patched.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Illusion wrote on 1/25/2023, 5:44 PM

I am seeing a variation of the problem using footage from my A7C. For me, I see black frames.

This is frame 217

Frame 218

Frame 219

Frame 220

Only happens with 32b project. 8b is fine.

  • ASUS ROG Strix X570-E
  • Ryzen 9 3900x 12-core
  • 128GB RAM (4x32GB)
  • Nvidia RTX 2070 8GDDR6
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for OS/Prog
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for Media
  • 1TB/2TB/4TB SATA3 SSDs for projects/media
  • 4TB WD Red drive for local cache
  • 10TB EXOS Enterprise, 14TB Toshiba drive for local cache
  • 32in 4K main monitor, 24in 1080 second
  • Win 11 Pro
  • 28TB NAS for long term archive storage
  • Sony a6000
  • Sony A7C
  • GoPro Hero 8
  • GoPro Hero 11
  • Sony BRAVIA XR X90J 75" 4K HDR10
  • Nvidia Shield TV Pro media player (GigE wired)
  • JBL Bar 5.1

 

fr0sty wrote on 1/25/2023, 5:58 PM

GPU driver version?

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

Illusion wrote on 1/25/2023, 6:47 PM

I will update and report back

Edit: same problem after update

Last changed by Illusion on 1/25/2023, 6:56 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

  • ASUS ROG Strix X570-E
  • Ryzen 9 3900x 12-core
  • 128GB RAM (4x32GB)
  • Nvidia RTX 2070 8GDDR6
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for OS/Prog
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for Media
  • 1TB/2TB/4TB SATA3 SSDs for projects/media
  • 4TB WD Red drive for local cache
  • 10TB EXOS Enterprise, 14TB Toshiba drive for local cache
  • 32in 4K main monitor, 24in 1080 second
  • Win 11 Pro
  • 28TB NAS for long term archive storage
  • Sony a6000
  • Sony A7C
  • GoPro Hero 8
  • GoPro Hero 11
  • Sony BRAVIA XR X90J 75" 4K HDR10
  • Nvidia Shield TV Pro media player (GigE wired)
  • JBL Bar 5.1

 

ALO wrote on 1/25/2023, 7:09 PM

I am seeing a variation of the problem using footage from my A7C. For me, I see black frames.

This is frame 217

Frame 218

Frame 219

Frame 220

Only happens with 32b project. 8b is fine.

Does this involve the Color Curves FX on the clip, or does it happen without ? I will upload a clip of my RX100 M5 so others can test, and I'll also put together a short screenshot video of what I do to trigger the issue

Illusion wrote on 1/25/2023, 7:36 PM

Does this involve the Color Curves FX on the clip, or does it happen without ? I will upload a clip of my RX100 M5 so others can test, and I'll also put together a short screenshot video of what I do to trigger the issue

Yes, only occurs with the Color Curves FX.

I tried turning off GPU accel, HW decoding, Legacy AVC, DRAM Preview to 0. Nothing cures it.

Last changed by Illusion on 1/25/2023, 7:39 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

  • ASUS ROG Strix X570-E
  • Ryzen 9 3900x 12-core
  • 128GB RAM (4x32GB)
  • Nvidia RTX 2070 8GDDR6
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for OS/Prog
  • 1TB WD Black NVMe M.2 for Media
  • 1TB/2TB/4TB SATA3 SSDs for projects/media
  • 4TB WD Red drive for local cache
  • 10TB EXOS Enterprise, 14TB Toshiba drive for local cache
  • 32in 4K main monitor, 24in 1080 second
  • Win 11 Pro
  • 28TB NAS for long term archive storage
  • Sony a6000
  • Sony A7C
  • GoPro Hero 8
  • GoPro Hero 11
  • Sony BRAVIA XR X90J 75" 4K HDR10
  • Nvidia Shield TV Pro media player (GigE wired)
  • JBL Bar 5.1