Jsnkc said: I think it is great that Spot and all of the other regualrs take the time out of their day to help out people in the boards -


I think it's great too. I think it's great that BillyBoy hosts a website offering his tutorials and info. But BB, you need to learn your place. You know what? I'm sure I'm not as good with Vegas as you are, BB. I hope to be one day. Wanna hear my credentials? I compiled a kick-ass family vacation a few years ago and realized I could "do this", whatever "this" is. That has lead into a very small-time wedding and event biz.

(Crickets in the background as other videographers feign a yawn)......

Probably a big difference between me (and lots of us on this board) and you, I have no doubt that you are beyond that. Surely you can see that. But IMHO, you cannot see the difference between you and Spot - i.e., why should we take his advice, he has an agenda, etc.

So he lists his accolades...it is truly a barometer of the work. What percentage of the time does one get a Grammy? Not very often. This says that on this one occasion enough people liked this particular work to give it an award. For every award-winning piece of work there are 100 other PROFESSIONAL BROADCAST pieces that did not win an award, but that were still commercial entities - peopled paid good money for them, in a business scenario, not a personal keepsake. I couldn't do that (yet) - could you? Maybe you could. Maybe you think you could. Have you?

I learn from you. And I learn from Spot. But Spot is in a whole different league. It's a shame you can't see that.

DM

BB,

I've really wanted to stay out of this, but I can't just sit here any longer and listen to you insult Spot or question his motives.

It's really too bad you didn't attend the Sony Vegas party at NAB this year. Your name came up amazingly often in conversation and NOT ONCE was it to "sing your praises." You have no idea how many people around here think you are a pathetic, argumentative loser. If people felt that way about me, I'd leave or, at least, change my ways. Curiously, whenever there are two forum members "going at it," you are ALWAYS one of the ones involved and, more often than not, you are the one that started it. And it is almost never about anything even remotely concerned with Vegas or video production.

You made made a point of demeaning Spot's Emmys and Grammys by saying they're merely "gold plated little symbols that they hand out by the truckload." First of all, they don't just "hand them out" you must EARN them and it's not that easy. I am certain that you will never know the tremendous satisfaction of receiving a prestgious award from your peers recognizing the quality of your work. There are two Emmys and a bunch of other awards sitting on my mantle at home and I assure you, they do indeed mean something and on many different levels. If nothing else, they add credibility that someone knows what they're talking about when they open their mouth.

Your jealousy of Spot (and myself, to a much lesser degree) is so blatantly obvious. You so desparately want to be the "King of the Vegas Forum" and you can't be because you simply don't have the experience and knowledge that a lot of the other forum members have. You never pass up an opportunity to denigrate professionals and that is, no doubt, because you aren't one yourself and you never will be. Instead of expending the energy and dedication it takes to raise yourself up to Spot's level professionally, you attempt to tear him down to yours. He has the respect of probably every forum member here and, unlike you, he has EARNED the respect and the Emmys and Grammys PROVE the respect is justified.

I've asked this question before, as Spot did just a few messages above: What experience do you have that qualifies you to dispense information and advice on this forum? What are As far as I can tell, your entire body of work consists of a collection of primarily off-topic posts here on this forum and a somewhat amateurish looking web site that has a few morsels of useful information. Of all the "answers" you've given here, the answer to your professional credentials has never been one of them:

John

(I am anxiously awaiting your trademark "BillyBoob" venemous reply.)

See, this is exactly what I was talking about, the previous post could have easily been written without the personal attacks, it's just adding fuel to the fire that doesn't need to happen .

"anxiously awaiting your trademark "BillyBoob" venemous reply"

I'd give you a venemous reply if you called me a pathetic, argumentative loser too!

1 large popcorn with a little bit of butter, 1 large Coke, and hurry please....it's about to get good.....

Sorry OddDuck...didn't mean to steal your line!

jsnkc,

I was merely relating what the feeling towards BB was at the Vegas party. Admittedly, I was somewhat infamous for having had a number of run-ins with BB, so perhaps that was initially going to be the topic of conversation anyway when they saw my name badge. Nevertheless, I didn't meet anyone with anything nice to say about BB and "pathetic, argumentative loser" was a direct quote from someone I met there. Needless to say, I wasn't going to argue the point. :)

John

Jsnkc,
I think John and I win the award for being attacked by BB, including name calling, being accused of plagiarizing, attacks for what we do, whom we've done it with, where we've done it, and what we've received for it.
Knowing John in the past in the forums, and having recently met him, he's a pretty low-key guy, and I don't believe ever deserving of the crap he's pretty patiently endured from someone on this forum.
As JazzValve pointed out, this thread is pretty indicative. Ironic it's about piracy, as this thread's been hijacked and pirated to a new topic. And an unfortunate one. I apologize for having participated at all in it, but damn, sometimes it's hard when someone agressively pisses on what you've worked hard to bring to value. It's not like the knowledge that any of us possess was acquired at zero cost.
And it's easy to take potshots at those that are trying to share their experiences when you're hiding behind bushes instead of playing in the middle of the game.

No one wins, we all lose when it gets like this. I'd hate to think what newbies imagine if this sort of thread is their first view of the forum.
Click BB's name and look at the dozens and dozens of nasty posts started by him. Whether he's got knowledge or not, no one deserves his acerbic, taunting, and provocative spittle. Least of all John.
John is right on, several people in more than one group were speaking of BB, and while I'm sure that has him grinning with self appreciation, none of the conversations were applauding these spates of meanness that seem to come often. A year ago, the excuse was health. Maybe BB is still ill?

John reminds me of James Cameron in demeanor and appearance.
BB, what makes you think that *I'm* angry? Did I appear to be angry? Or was I just answering your question?
Feel no need to respond, the questions are rhetorical in nature.

I find this very disruptive, especially from the very guys that are held in very high esteem at least by me. Ego's, pride or whatever you want to call it, deflate it, swallow it. But please give it a rest.

John Cline you are my hero. Nice job.

I wasn't taking anyones side or anything, I know the history of this much like everyone else who has been on these boards for a while does. I was just making a general statement.

And the solution is readily provided to us in the form of the "ignore this user" option. Goodbye BB, I, for one, shall not miss your rants.

Hey no problem, dmcknight. Just pass some of that Coke. It's better than LOTR.

Once again the prima donnas need to respond because they had their feathers ruffled. I didn't attack anybody. I simply asked SPOT what his special relationship with Sony is since it can impact on the impressions some may have as to what he says. Its a fair question. SPOT don't have to answer, but I have a right to ask. That it causes SPOT to again go into a blind rage like he did over my innocent comments about his "book" some months back with him again attacking the messenger, is telling.

Look, this is a peer to peer forum. There will always be little skirmishes, that's normal, expected and fleeting. Having a tough skin helps. Obviously SPOT is very thin skinned and can't take even the slilghtest criticism or the muldane inquiry asking if he is somehow reimbused for some of what he does for Sony. The issue isn't if SPOT is reimbursed, more power to him if he is. The issue is he should make it clear he is, if he is, so people can judge his opinions accordingly. Someone BUYING Vegas at full price may after different opinions and feel more open about expressing them including negative ones then someone getting handouts.

What's fairly normal in many forums is ONE poster, in this case SPOT attempting to dominate and shut down opinions he don't like. Also common is one or more posters challenging such a poster from time to time. Here more often than not that would be me.

There are several things I take issue with. SPOT has repeatedly lectured on copyright issues, yet SPOT admits he isn't an attorney. You know what they say about people giving legal advice without a license. He's also strongly hinted time after time you're not "professional" if you don't use a "professional" grade external monitor, yet SPOT isn't an electronics engineer so he isn't qualified to categorically say what he's said aout the inner workings of monitors and only parrots what he's seen in ad copy hyping some product.s

SPOT loves to express HIS OPINIONS which of course is fine. SPOT doesn't like people to express their opinions if they're 180 degrees from his. That isn't fine. In fact its very damaging to forums like this if more timid posters feel they can't express their views without getting jumped on.

Sometimes I find what SPOT says deliberately deameaning especially to newbies because its clear SPOT's choice of words often aren't very flattenng and are meant more to scold forum members that either have no desire or finanical means to purchase more expensive monitors for example and by inference he suggests their work isn't up to his. Again, I find such comments insulting. Some of you may find what I say insulting. That's life.

SPOT recently spouted is own expereinces with product activation and obviously was pissed-off, yet anyone else expressing similar views he frowns on and quickly runs to Sony's defense. Which brings us full circle asking exactly what is SPOT's relationship with Sony?

The bottom line is this isn't the SPOT forum. It isn't my forum either. Its Sony's forum and everybody has a right to express their views, even those that disagree with what SPOT is spouting.

The most recent example of SPOT's heavy-handedness was his PUBLIC OFFER to attempt to silence Zippy, a long time Sony critic many of us have played with. Again, was this proper? Hardly. As annoying as Zippy could be, as a customer he had a right to complain. SPOT didn 't like it and attempted to solve it his way. Bribe him by giving him a Mac. It was Sony's place and responsiblity, not SPOT's. to deal with annoying posters.

Make no more of it then that. When SPOT goes a little over the top, I let him know it. Somebody should. If Sony don't like it then THEY can tell me and I'll honor their request because it is THEIR forum.

Forums are all bout exchanging views, helping, lively discussion. I do my part to keep it lively. If you can't handle me, PLEASE use the ignore This User option. <wink>

BB,
sorry but I think you need a reality check here. Your original question implied and in no uncertain way that SPOT was being unethical. An ethical person would disclose, as a matter of course, that relationship.
As far as I know SPOT has much the same relationship as you and me with Sony, we've invested time and money using their products, if ANY of us goes into an open forum on say video editing, mixing it with guys using FCP or Premiere or whatever, our views are going to be slanted by our relationship with Vegas. We all defend what we love, that's just human nature and perhaps SPOT is a bit more passionate than most in his defense.
That said, in this day and age absolutely anything you read or hear anywhere could well be from someone who has a pecunary interest. People are now being paid to sit down in coffee shops and have a conversation that'll be overheard in the hope of spreading rumours about movies, music and products.
And of course there's no way for any of us to prove we don't have an interest, the very statement that we don't usually raises doubts that maybe we do. It's up to all of us to evaluate all information for ourselves.

BullyBore,

OK, I'll ask my two questions again:

1) What color is the sun on the planet on which you live?

2) What are your credentials? It's not that you have refused to answer this one, you have consistently ignored the question altogether.

John

Here's the real reality check. Ever since the Enron scandal anyone giving financial advice pro or con are matter of factly asked if they own the securties personally they are discusssing or if the firm they work for has a financial interest. Its just a disclaimer. They NEVER are offended by such questions. Why should they be?

I basically asked SPOT the same thing since he enjoys a certain certain 'celebrity stauts' his comments may or may not be given more weight or viewed in a different light if he's getting the software for free.

I don't have any ax to grind, I'd expect ANYONE to reveal any relationship if they're so passionate about any product they routinely give advise on. Being passionate because you truly like the product like you and I do is one thing. Being passionate because you MAY get rewarded to be is something else. Its just how things are in these cynical days, one should be totally up front.

That's a huge leap from accusing him of being unethical. For the record I don't think SPOT is or would ever be unethical. However that said, I think it would add to his creditability if he said what his relationship with Sony involves.

I didn't ask what he gets paid and couldn't care less what deals if any he had or has in the works. However if he gets free copies of Vegas and other Sony software that should be acknowledged as anyone should as a point of reference. That wouldn't deminish what he says, if anything he woud be credited for being up front.

I just ignore you John because you're consistently a pompous ass.

AGAIN, it's the way you ask your questions....

I paid full price for all my Vegsa software, did you?
BTW, its' Vegas not Vegsa

If you have a question, ask it like a man. If you have a gripe, have the balls to state your point clearly. Save the passive aggressive whiny ass it's past my naptime and I need to get out of the sandbox and take my toys home (oh thats right, I don't have any Emmy's/Grammy's to take home) gee my pee pee is bigger than yours for a forum that cares and memo to Billy Bob - this ain't that forum.

The message is pretty clear from a variety of people - lead, contribute, or get out of the way.

whose da angry man?

Billybaby

SPOT


pictures worth 1k words

BillyBoy.... that really you? That looks like a pic from a midwest sex offender website. Or perhaps it's the publicity shot they took at Jerry Springer for the Redneck Computer Geeks That Still Live Wid Der Momma's episode.

Hate to be crass, but you've brought this one up on yourself.. time for a whoopin' as they say where you live.

How 'bout this. You quit griping here on the forum, go get Web Design 101 and work on your website. Then get Photoshop and work on your picture. Both need tons of work. You're wasting precious time... I'm sure we'll hear from you when you're done.

I just ignore you John because you're consistently a pompous ass.
I'm so disappointed, is that the best you can do? You and I, along with everyone else here, know that the reason you aren't going to respond to any of my comments is that they are true and you simply have no defense. I guess if you actually had any credentials, you would have shared them with us by now.

I absolutely laughed out loud when I read your message to Spot. Every nasty thing you said about him applies to you, not to him. Do you own a mirror? If so, you need to take a good, LONG look at yourself.

When SPOT goes a little over the top, I let him know it. Somebody should.

Stop it Billy, you're KILLING me!! You sure as heck don't like it one bit when someone lets you know when you've gone way over the top.

And regarding Spot voicing his opinions; BillyBob, YOU spout opinions, Spot relates facts based upon real-world experience.

Everyone, except for you, has you figured out. Rather than make any attempt to play nice with the rest of us here in the sandbox, you insist on continuing your unpopular "bull in a china shop" tactics. Doesn't the fact that so many people dislike you give you any concern whatsoever?

John

HHHHMMMM is Zippy Maybe BillyBoy , two diiferent personas trapped in a single mind? Notice you never hear them speak at the same time. (hehehe)