I agree that the ability to play HD codecs other than H.264 on red laser discs would be a good thing, and therefore they should not be called AVCHD discs. I have been looking at media players and the number of video formats they support. Should red laser discs containing any one of these be readable on BD players? Some people say that optical discs (including BD) are old hat anyway and we should look to the future. I expect to put most of my future HD work on a media player, but I also see advantages in separate discs, just as I still see an advantage in paper books over PDF files on a computer.

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>An agreed upon firmware tweak would solve all these problems and make Blu-ray players cheaper to make/buy while giving the public greater features and value.

I agree, but... I also recall during the early days of Blu-ray discs (when the format war was still raging) that BD-R was supposed to be a "data backup" format only, and NO PLAYERS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY THESE! But it was decided that, at least for the introductory year-or-three, BD-R discs would be playable so that the industry could make custom discs for playback at trade shows and whatnot (to sell, sell, sell). Clearly somewhere along the way the industry relented (or at least most did not rescind their BD-R playback capability--some did like LG BH200), and many-if-not-most standalone players do play homebrew BD-R discs, and the BDMV-formatted DVD-5 and -9 (exceptions being some Panasonics and I guess Sony's own PS3).. The AVCHD format is something else again, created in deference to the HD camcorder market. This oughta play in every player if done correctly.

My own Sony standalone player sees my BD-R discs as Blu-ray discs (and lights a pretty blue light) but while it plays my BD-on-DVD discs (made to BDMV not AVCHD) it shows them as AVCHD. I'm guessing it just looks at the disc type (in this case DVD) and assumes AVCHD.

I have access to Sony DVD Architect Pro (at work) but not DVD Architect Studio--so I have only been able to compared PDF files and it seems DVDAS is similar but without 5.1 sound and subtitles. The Pro version of course makes BDMV discs, does not the Studio version also? Which version are people in this thread using, Pro or Studio?

Hi Max. I am using the newly released studio version of DVD Architect 5.0. I have been abbreviating it as DVDAS5. Besides DVD it burns Blu-ray disks but only with stereo PCM sound. Blu-ray gives options for 50, 25, 8.5 and 4.7 GB disks, using the red laser on the smaller two.

Thanks for adding some historical perspective on Blu-ray. I avoided Blu-ray until the prices became reasonable enough for burners. Early on it looked as though Blu-ray was going to lock out burning at home all together. That is the reason my first high definition player was HD-DVD because home-burned disks on conventional DVD media was part of the standard. When Blu-ray won the format war I cussed out Blu-ray because they didn't seem to care about the home user. It was only a few months ago I found that we could burn our own disks and have them play on most any Blu-ray player - although I recently learned that BD-R/RE is still not a Blu-ray "standard." A low-volume, budget video producer can't put the "Blu-ray" logo on his commercial, burned disks.

So, I guess we have to feel 'grateful' that we can even burn Blu-ray disks. I am still planning to pursue Sony (hardware) to officially support BD9. The email writing campaign starts next week.

Hi Ken so you're saying DVDAS5 outputs BDMV format just like DVDAP5. The OP lamented up-front that AS does not output AVCHD discs as do other low-end apps. I must agree that I am surprised myself--I'd have thought DVDAS would do AVCHD (only), and DVDAP(ro) would do BDMV (and AVCHD too for that matter).

Good luck convincing anyone at Sony that BD-on-DVD needs to be supported. They want(ed) to save that format for high-end, high-cost, high-profit BD movies for exclusive sale by their licensed partners. That the unwashed masses can make BD-on-DVD at home, from OTA HDTV, satellite/cable HD, and even BD/HDDVD sale-and-rental discs, with stunningly high quality, can't be something they are happy about.

Yes, Max. I know you can go bleary eyed from reading long threads such as these but earlier it was mentioned that DVDAS5 can burn HD video with the Blu-ray folder/file structure with the red laser on conventional DVD media. It can not burn true AVCHD disks like the Sony PCM utility which is included with their DVD camcorders. People have found that if the included structural files are coded properly the disk can fool the Blu-ray player into thinking it is an AVCHD disk and read from the red laser pickup, erroneously identifying the disk as AVCHD. Nero Vision has been able to do this for several years - but they call them AVCHD disks. If they don't have the AVCHD folder/file structure then I don't know how they can call them that.

Sony (hardware mfrs) ought to be aware that lots of people now own HDTVs and HD camcorders, including Sony HD camcorders. It's obvious they would want to put their home video on optical media. Until BD media becomes more reasonably priced, conventional DVD media will suffice. And who really want s to watch more than twenty minutes of home video anyway? And stuffing a pirated movie on a BD9 will still require too much extra compression and too much time. It really isn't worth it. The hardware manufacturers don't need to support the 3X speed that BD called for - just make sure the firmware accepts and plays a 1X disk with a maximum 18 Gb/s bitrate and a large group of home video people will be quite happy. It's really not much trouble for them at all. (Does that sound like a good pitch?)

>lots of people now own HDTVs and HD camcorders...want to put their home video on optical media.

Yes, but I understood that's what the "AVCHD" format was for. So what's the argument again for supporting BD-5/9 (BDMV on DVD disc) if an accepted format (AVCHD) already exists?

I do think that "the genie is out of the bottle" re: BDMV-on-DVD, heck it's even promoted in its own DVDAS/P software for cryan' out loud (doesn't hardware Sony know what software Sony is selling???) so Sony ought to realize that and open-up their players' firmware to accept it all. The rest of the mfrs will follow. But it seems they have taken a step backward in recent months re: at least PS3 if not a standalone player here & there, where they don't wanna play BD-5/9. Maybe we're making a wrong assumption--maybe they tried to fix an incompatibility somewhere and ended-up breaking BD-on-DVD. I sorta doubt it, but bugs do happen.

Maybe the "pitch" that might work best would actually be a "bitch" i.e. alot of COMPLAINTS (from angry customers! angry SONY SOFTWARE customers!!! ;-) ). "Dammit Sony the wedding videos I made using DVDAS (and BDMV-on-DVD) for my extended family don't play on your players! Even some that USED TO work don't play my discs anymore! Fix your flippin' players to play all BD-on-DVD!" or some such.

We need an angry mob. I will provide the rags and kerosene... :D