Blu-ray AVC markers not loaded in DVDA....

set wrote on 4/4/2014, 6:55 PM

I was posting Blu-ray AVC markers problem at
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/bug-from-10-11-and-12-that-should-be-fixed-for-13--97050/
*linked changed under the new Magix forum

And got some interesting replies, so better moved it to new topic here. (Previous topic there was a XDCAM .mp4 marker issue)

Subject: RE: Bug from 10, 11 and 12 that should be fixed for 13
Reply by: set
Date: 4/5/2014 7:18:09 AM

Add more info:
This marker problem is also happening when you are rendering to Blu-ray AVC via SonyAVC.
If you open in DVD Architect, the markers for chapters use is gone.

I only able to do it with little turnaround, since I still authoring both BD and DVDs, I create DVD first, then save as, and replace video tracks all to BD avc.

Subject: RE: Bug from 10, 11 and 12 that should be fixed for 13
Reply by: john_dennis
Date: 4/5/2014 7:31:55 AM

Try this Set,

Render the Sony AVC Blu-ray video.

Open in DVD Architect and let it do it's magic (it will characterize the file as "Unknown" on the first pass).

Close the DVDA project without saving

Create a new DVD Architect project

Open the same Sony AVC Blu-ray video

The markers should be there

I do this all the time and, while tedious, the markers show up on the second entry into DVD Architect after DVD Architect churns and churns all day identifying the characteristics of the video file.

Subject: RE: Bug from 10, 11 and 12 that should be fixed for 13
Reply by: videoITguy
Date: 4/5/2014 7:37:27 AM

john_dennis - there is a process going on ( I call it a handshake) when an external marker file is passed from VegasPro to the internals of DVDArchPro project when a given video file begins importing. AFAIK this transparent process happens all the time - but your observation and workaround with Sony encoded AVC in particular is interesting. Probably indicates the handshake is stumbling in some way.
This is also why I aways goto DVDAPro once a video media asset is imported and resave the marker file for lock-in to that .dar project.

Subject: RE: Bug from 10, 11 and 12 that should be fixed for 13
Reply by: PeterDuke
Date: 4/5/2014 7:47:53 AM

Markers are stored in the .sfl sidecar files that accompany the rendered video and audio files (unless you disable their creation). DVDA needs one of them under certain circumstance but I am not sure when.

Comments

set wrote on 4/4/2014, 7:01 PM

Just tried it, but didn't work..., something missing ?*
after rendering to SonyAVC, run DVD Architect.
Should I make new project first or just leave it as default DVD project first then import media?
After media imported, should I double click on that media to open in the timeline?

*Didn't check that 'save marker' on render as dialog box is not yet ON.

Laurence wrote on 4/4/2014, 7:34 PM

A simple test is to take your render with markers and drop it on a Vegas timeline. The same sidecar that is used for DVD Architect for markers will also show the markers embedded in the video clip if they are there.

john_dennis wrote on 4/4/2014, 8:02 PM

"[I]Should I make new project first or just leave it as default DVD project first then import media?[/I]"

I usually make a single title project the first time but I don't think it matters.

On the second pass you may have to hit "Load Markers".

john_dennis wrote on 4/4/2014, 9:25 PM

I use this two pass trick often, but today I rendered some Sony AVC 1920x1080-24p Blu-ray 16 mbps elementary video and the markers appeared on the first try in DVD Architect 6.

Problem Step Recorder output here just to prove I'm not any crazier than I was yesterday.

This requires more investigation...

set wrote on 4/4/2014, 9:30 PM

Whooopss.... sorry, a little mistake (or too busy and forgotten *facepalm*)

Ok, I remembered once when rendering via SonyAVC once, The markers data gone, yes that time.
But after having little test just now, the metadata from VegasPro 12 to DVDa 5.2 is successfully loaded without any issues. Just straight.
The rendering process command was assisted via Ultimate S Pro > 'Render'. I always do batch rendering there.

When I saw Mainconcept's MVC/AVC has more setting, can adjust Max bit rate and turn-on 2 pass render, could have more GPU assist than SonyAVC, I switch Blu-ray rendering workflow to it (change render preset in Ultimate S Pro, Markers settings is already 'TRUE')*.
*I thought there's something wrong with the extension (almost call ~jr :) but thankfully I haven't done so).

So yes, the Mainconcept MVC/AVC didn't create .sfl metadata file for DVDA chapter use.

Sorry for the confusion, but hopefully this info useful too for SCS' feedback, along with XDCAM MP4 problem on other post.

john_dennis wrote on 4/4/2014, 9:47 PM

You can instruct DVD Architect to load markers from the audio file by changing the "Media markers in video file" flag to FALSE.

Options - Control - Shift - Preference - Internal

search for "markers".

I've done it rather than do a long video render over.

Having the markers in the audio may not place them exactly on an Index frame, but it'll be better than none.

Laurence wrote on 4/4/2014, 11:30 PM

Have you named the markers in your DVDA render? I'm asking because in my related thread on XDcam mp4 renders markers, it turns out that naming at least one of the markers makes them show up. XDcam mxf renders embed markers without names, so it isn't consistent. Anyway, it's worth a try if the markers aren't already named.

set wrote on 4/5/2014, 4:09 AM

Thanks John Dennis,
Going into preference solved the problem. Import media AC3 audio shows the marker now!
Except video track is blank, just need to re-add them on Track Media tab, and they appear.

Laurence, I had names on the marker, even not all of them, or just Plural-eyes sync codes.
The problem is no .sfl file made besides mainconcept.avc video stream, even the Markers option has been turned on via Ultimate S Pro render settings, or via File>Render as.

Add#1:
After having experiment with Naming all XDCAM MP4 markers, try re-render again with all markers named, but didn't work, because no .sfl file made.

videoITguy wrote on 4/5/2014, 9:23 AM

It appears that this thread has had the participant comments wander all over the place and it is hard to make a conclusion. Same is true of the concurrent thread. I am summarizing here what I am grasping from the content of the two concurrent threads.

I have revised some remarks in my quotation marks below for a better read here:

Subject: RE: Bug from 10, 11 and 12 that should be fixed for 13
Reply by: OldSmoke Date: 4/4/2014 4:47:20 PM

I tried it with MC AVC and XAVC and both don't put markers in "the output"
I just tried MOV and " that seemed to provide markers." There seems to be a number of codecs and format which work/allow markers and then some don't.

Reply by: john_dennis Date: 4/4/2014 8:33:56 PM

I got the sidecar files with XDCAM-EX.MP4 render " when I choose to export markers"

But there are no markers showing in Vegas Pro 12-770 or DVD Architect 6-237

Reply by: NormanPCN Date: 4/4/2014 10:45:26 PM

I created 30'ish unnamed markers and they did not get saved via the workflow I listed previously. I then had Vegasaur create a series of named markers and they did save.

Maybe it has to do with unnamed versus named markers. The markers are clearly in the MP4 file in additional to the SFL, but maybe the MP4 format does not support unnamed markers. The SFL being a Vegas file can support whatever Vegas wants. Maybe when a container supports markers Vegas never looks at the SFL file and the container may have marker limitations.
Message last edited on 4/4/2014 11:59:46 PM, by NormanPCN.

Subject: RE: Blu-ray AVC markers not loaded in DVDA....
Reply by: john_dennis
Date: 4/4/2014 8:47:24 PM

You can instruct DVD Architect to load markers from the audio file by changing the "Media markers in video file" flag to FALSE.

Options - Control - Shift - Preference - Internal

search for "markers".

I've done it rather than do a long video render over.

Having the markers in the audio may not place them exactly on an Index frame, but it'll be better than none.
Message last edited on 4/4/2014 8:49:17 PM, by john_dennis.