[bug] Please, fix Vegas so audio-professionals can also use it

Peterson wrote on 3/26/2023, 8:29 AM

The title says it all.

Vegas 20 is so extreme buggy when you are "more into" audio, it's almost unworkable.

  • I did create bug-reports, set comprehensive lists of errors, showed several screen-recordings, tried to contact the devs... nobody, literally nobody did answer.

The main problem is the absolute terrible support of VST3 plug-ins (just search inside this forum and filter on "audio"), but also the behavior that the plug-in chain gets totally corrupted when toggling / selecting a plug-in (first or third-party, VST2 or VST3).

  • I did already buy Studio One and Reaper, but am also in the middle of a rather big projects (that takes about 5 to 10 years to finish), so I can't migrate existing edits.

Just check this screen-recording to say how much garbage the plug-in chain is.

Plug-ins move to the left in the chain, just by clicking on them, ruing my complete audio-output.

  • And besides that, I am not even talking about more than 50 crashes, freezes, etc... a day - all related to audio / VST3 / canvas redraw and memory overflow issues.

Serious, this is pure sh*t for professionals in the industry.

Sorry to say that... since I am a user since Vegas 3 (which was audio only).

At least let someone answer to those bugs, 'cause I am not the only one complaining here.

Show some support, since we also support you by still staying here and using the software.

Comments

Rednroll wrote on 3/30/2023, 1:47 AM

Such a shame. The one feature I was looking forward to added in Vegas 20. Looks like they copied/pasted Acid Pro's VST3 code because that's been pretty bad for awhile now.

Jeditpro wrote on 3/30/2023, 10:57 AM

I agree with you. Claiming that current VEGAS is fully compatible and works correctly with VST3 plugins is a bad joke. The strange thing about all this is that Sound Forge works well with VST3 plugins and in theory they are products from the same company.

Peterson wrote on 3/30/2023, 11:20 AM

I don't want to be "that guy" that always complains, but when I work in Vegas (audio only) I have at least 25 crashes a day.

I repeat : 25 crashes a day.

All the (not saved) work is gone, I have to kill the processes, restart Vegas and pray that auto-save (every 5 minutes) did it's job.

This is simply not professional.

And it's Vegas 20 with both VST2 and VST3.

Plug-in order get reshuffled, plug-in (3d party) do crash or freeze, undoing a plug-in will corrupt Vegas, the canvas is redrawn every freaking "undo" or "redo" again, and again... it's pure garbage.

"Even" a free and simple host like Audacity works flawless with the exact same VST2 and VST3 plug-ins (like from Melda, iZotope, etc...) and also tools like Sound Forge.

But Vegas?

No.

walter-i. wrote on 3/30/2023, 3:11 PM
All the (not saved) work is gone, I have to kill the processes, restart Vegas and pray that auto-save (every 5 minutes) did it's job.

If you have such problems, I would suggest - temporarily, as a workaround - to turn on autosave to 1 minute, or even real-time saving.
Under Tools - Advanced Save.

rraud wrote on 3/30/2023, 4:40 PM

Even" a free and simple host like Audacity works flawless with the exact same VST2 and VST3 plug-ins (like from Melda, iZotope, etc...) and also tools like Sound Forge

Sound Forge 16 and (recently published) Sound Forge 17 has VST issues as well, which may or may not be the same as in Vegas.

Jeditpro wrote on 3/30/2023, 6:23 PM

An expensive solution to get VST3 plugins to work correctly in VEGAS is Blue Cat's PatchWork. https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PatchWork/

Unfortunately VEGAS users are paying for something that doesn't work as it should and they always have to resort to third party work in order to complete their work. Sad but real.

Peterson wrote on 4/3/2023, 11:42 AM

Even" a free and simple host like Audacity works flawless with the exact same VST2 and VST3 plug-ins (like from Melda, iZotope, etc...) and also tools like Sound Forge

Sound Forge 16 and (recently published) Sound Forge 17 has VST issues as well, which may or may not be the same as in Vegas.

Thanks for the heads-up.

I (still) use SF13 Pro, since it does the job for what I want it to do.

Peterson wrote on 4/3/2023, 11:45 AM

An expensive solution to get VST3 plugins to work correctly in VEGAS is Blue Cat's PatchWork. https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PatchWork/

Unfortunately VEGAS users are paying for something that doesn't work as it should and they always have to resort to third party work in order to complete their work. Sad but real.

Hmmm... 100 USD isn't that expensive when it get Vegas to work... but why pay for third party solutions when I pay already monthly for Vegas?

And I extensively use the timeline / envelope editing from Vegas for my VST2 / VST3 audio plug-in fx; not sure if "patchwork" can handle those, like Vegas does.

It also makes the workflow harder to reproduce for the future;

In future cases (when you need to restore / edit finished projects you have to keep archives of both Vegas, the VST2 / VST3 and PatchWork applications).

Jeditpro wrote on 4/4/2023, 8:23 AM

And I extensively use the timeline / envelope editing from Vegas for my VST2 / VST3 audio plug-in fx; not sure if "patchwork" can handle those, like Vegas does.

Here Thanks to PatchWork I can work normally with VST3 plugins in any version of VEGAS. Ideally, you download a trial version and run your own test.

See my screen recording below. BlueCats Patch Work being used in VEGAS Pro 14 and 19 which are not compatible with VST3 plugins. I tested it with the DearVR Micro plugin which is exclusively VST3.

Bellow is a good free option, while the problems with VST3 plugins in VEGAS are unresolved. Just copy the files to your VST plugins folder and all VST3 plugins will be recognized correctly.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565924

 

Peterson wrote on 4/21/2023, 9:30 AM

Thank you for explaining.

I will still wait for a solution from Vegas (since I don't want to mess up my workflow "temporarily" and revert back when all things work).

Till today it's still crap - audio-editing is simply not possible at some higher levels.

Max-Schuberth wrote on 5/3/2023, 9:36 PM

@Peterson I have been reluctant to join this thread because I have issues with 'the company', Vegas and the moderators don't like it when call out 'the company'....NOTHING you say surprises me...nothing! If you use 3rd party VST plugins (no matter how high the quality), bus's with fx or fx on the master bus, ASIO drivers etc. Vegas is as amateur audio program at best. (keep in mind 'the company' has known about these issues for over a decade...a decade) What pushed me over the edge was this is I made a video in Vegas Pro 19. (audio was done in a better DAW) Rendered the video, shut down Vegas Pro and watched the video. Keep in mind I did NOTHING else, ..nothing. I tried to open Vegas to correct a scene and low and behold Vegas WON'T open...nada, zero...I then reboot the computer...still nothing, do this 4 or five times still nothing. Now, I uninstall Vegas (cleaning the registry and program files) and then reinstall (and reboot) still NOTHING...I know that Vegas has a NASTY habit of starting in the background and not functioning properly and of course I checked that...nothing there. All of this goes on for an hour or so. NOW, I start to turn off WINDOWS functions and devices. Lo and behold disabling the network card Vegas begins to function.........WHY WHY? As I long ago left Vegas as an audio program (I started with Vegas Audio 2.0) I now have come to the end of making videos with Vegas. This program is more trouble than it's worth. I have NEVER made a video in Vegas that did not CRASH over and over again, (for all you forum geeks, 128 G RAM, 16 core processor, 4K 4 monitor video card) Many people will suggest "work arounds"...but did you buy the program to have to use work arounds? No, you bought the program to work properly. In the end I wish you all the best of luck.

Max-Schuberth wrote on 5/3/2023, 10:25 PM

@EricLNZ thanks but no thanks 😉  this 'company' is (in)famous for work arounds .i.e Acid Pro and Vegas. I want a program that works on a professional level, I have that NOW with my DAW and have a Video editing program that (from all reviews I've read and tried) functions on a Professional level. Crashes & instability are creative killers and Vegas & Acid are lethal. All the best to you, Cheers

RogerS wrote on 5/4/2023, 4:16 AM

Thank you for explaining.

I will still wait for a solution from Vegas (since I don't want to mess up my workflow "temporarily" and revert back when all things work).

Till today it's still crap - audio-editing is simply not possible at some higher levels.

@Peterson Do you find the newest update helps? It says there were fixes related to VSTs and seems to work better with RX9 in my limited testing.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Peterson wrote on 5/5/2023, 11:11 AM

Thank you for explaining.

I will still wait for a solution from Vegas (since I don't want to mess up my workflow "temporarily" and revert back when all things work).

Till today it's still crap - audio-editing is simply not possible at some higher levels.

@Peterson Do you find the newest update helps? It says there were fixes related to VSTs and seems to work better with RX9 in my limited testing.

Thanks for the mention 👍

I took of two weeks for the audio-editing, because I had to write a book (yes, that happens).

Just came back here, downloaded the "patched" update (in 5 seconds... so no problems on my side) and installed it.

"Old" Vegas did crash (or quit... anyone knows the real cause of it? Something with Windows?), but the most recent update did start (lol, like that's a merit for a piece of software...).

Anyhow, this weekend or Monday I will continue with my audio project and report my findings here 😁

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 9:40 AM

UPDATE

All mentioned bugs are even WORSE than ever before - period.

I hate to say this, but it is now totally unworkable.

Where must I start?

It is so extreme bad that I really can't tell.

I do have a mental breakdown, because the new version (V20) is totally unworkable with the exact same bugs, and even worse than the "previous" version (which doesn't work because it doesn't go beyond the splashscreen).

Now what?

- Memory overflow when "undoing" a VST-pluging? Crash.
- Adjusting a parameter in a VST-plugin? More than 500 "undo" entries for just one parameter.
- Toggling status of a VST-plugin? Order (and output) get corrupted.
- Moving a bezierpoint inside a VST-plugin? System freezes or becomes extreme sluggish.

Serious, I don't want this anylonger.

What must I do?

RogerS wrote on 5/8/2023, 9:44 AM

Which VSTs did you test 20.403 with?

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

Dell XPS 15 laptop (2017) 32GB ram, NVIDIA 1050 (4GB) with latest studio driver, Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 iGPU (latest available driver), dual internal SSD (1TB; 1TB), Windows 10 64 bit

VEGAS Pro 19.651
VEGAS Pro 20.411
VEGAS Pro 21.208

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark: https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark: https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 9:50 AM

Which VSTs did you test 20.403 with?

 

All, but the natives one (from Vegas itself).

- Melda (several)

- Single ones, like "LoudMax"

I am really crying here, because I am working on a project for 10 years now and I can't go back to the "previous" version of 20 and the "new" version of 20 made things even worse.

Even when I drag a slider from a simple 3rd party plugin like LoudMax (let's say adjust the treshold from 1dB to 1.5dB) there are 250 (!!!) undo-entries in the memory created.

And they are even created when I select "bypass changes for FX".

Now they are even send to the "undo memory" even when you have selected not to do so.

Undoing one of those "undo's" does crash the system (buffer overlow) but the worse thing is that even dragging a slider is not fluid, because every pixel I drag, hundres of undo's are created.

So the slider jumps from position X to another, skipping pixels, hanging on the UI, etc...

And not only with LoudMax : Melda is unworkable as well.

Adjust a simple EQ by dragging the point, freezes, changes a point, freeze, change, skip interface update, freeze, hang, undo, crash.

Toggling the state of a plugin in the audio-plugin window crashes plugins, freezes Vegas and the order becomes re-ordered, without doing anything.

This is so extreme awfull for me personally, I just want to work.

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 9:59 AM

https://i.ibb.co/h2JDmhz/eq.gif

See this screen recording.

The mouse itself moves fluid, when not doing anything with the plugin "underneath".

But when I try to adjust a parameter, EQ point, etc... and I "slide / move" the mouse it becomes extreme sluggish.

It's jumping from left to right, top to bottom - skipping parts in between.

It's unworkable, you really are fighting against your mouse and the software to get the parameter you want.

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 10:09 AM

https://i.ibb.co/P6xMTPV/new.gif

I did uninstall the "new" version V20 of Vegas and installed the "previous" V20 version (while setting the date back to May 2nd, so it doesn't crash at startup).

See the image above and compare it to the one in the previous post.

The "old" version (in this comment) is smooth, fluid, the mouse and VST-parameters follow the cursor.

The "new" version freezes, lags, skips parts, is fighting against the movement.

This is so not good for me.

jetdv wrote on 5/8/2023, 10:58 AM
Even when I drag a slider from a simple 3rd party plugin like LoudMax (let's say adjust the treshold from 1dB to 1.5dB) there are 250 (!!!) undo-entries in the memory created.

Is that VEGAS' fault? If the plugin is passing "changed" information for every minute adjustment, then VEGAS will happily record that a change was made...

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 11:23 AM
Even when I drag a slider from a simple 3rd party plugin like LoudMax (let's say adjust the treshold from 1dB to 1.5dB) there are 250 (!!!) undo-entries in the memory created.

Is that VEGAS' fault? If the plugin is passing "changed" information for every minute adjustment, then VEGAS will happily record that a change was made...

I am not blaming anyone.

But let's keep it simple.

Those are (rather) expensive plugins (e.g. more than $ 1.000,- each) and not some illegal kind of crap.

They work flawless in other programs and they did "work" very buggy in the "old" Vegas.

In the "new" Vegas, they simply stopped working.

And since Vegas says "it does support VST 2 and 3 and is for audio professionals" I expect this to work.

Also, I did contact support more than 10 times, and they were aware of there problem (they said).

I did contact the creators of both Melda and RX, and they do state it's "Vegas fault" (and Magix is aware of it).

-------------------------

When I change value 1 to 2, all other software has one undo : revert 2 to 1.

But Vegas has hundreds of undo's, and is overflowing it's own memory with values like 1.01 - 1.02 - 1.03 - etc... until it reaches 2.

And a single undo does not go from 2 to 1, but from 2 to 1.99 - 1.98 - 1.97 - etc...

So you have to undo 1 parameter 500 times to really undo it.

That's why it's crashing.

Now even when you bypass Vegas' internal "undo system" the events are still fired to the memory and that wasn't the case in the "old" Vegas 20.

Peterson wrote on 5/8/2023, 11:26 AM
Set oShell = CreateObject("Shell.Application")
oShell.ShellExecute "C:\Users\USERNAME\Desktop\network\disable.bat", , , "runas", 1
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.ShellExecute "C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 20.0\vegas200.exe"
WScript.Sleep 1000
oShell.ShellExecute "C:\Users\USERNAME\Desktop\network\enable.bat", , , "runas", 1

For those professionals who can not use Vegas anymore (the new one, that freezes all professional plugins), see the VBS above.

This will disable-network, start Vegas (the "old" version), enable-network.

You also have to include "enable.bat" and "disable.bat" for pinging to your modem.

netsh interface set interface "MODEMNAME" admin=disable
netsh interface set interface "MODEMNAME" admin=enable

Also you have to block Magix servers from HOSTS file;

127.0.0.1 ssl-update.magix.com
127.0.0.1 *.magix.com
127.0.0.1 vegascreativesoftware.com

Doing to the "old" Vegas will still work, enabling me to finish the project I have been working on since 2019.

I even de-compiled the .exe of Vegas and did find solutions for all those bugs (buffer overflows and GUI mis-performance).

But Magix sayed "they were not interested".

bitman wrote on 5/9/2023, 2:37 AM

@Peterson 

The new Vegas 403 build does not hang anymore when applying VST3 spectral denoise. I also tried with success Voice de-noise, and spectral denoise + voice denoise in any combination...

From my limited testing on my side there seem to be progress on the audio front.

APPS: VIDEO: VP 365 (21 - build 314), VP 365 20, VP 19 post (latest build -651), (uninstalled VP 12,13,14,15,16 Suite,17, VP18 post), Vegasaur, a lot of NEWBLUE plugins, Mercalli 6.0, Respeedr, Vasco Da Gamma 16 HDpro XXL, Boris Continuum 2024, Davinci Resolve Studio 18, SOUND: RX 10 advanced Audio Editor, Sound Forge Pro 17, Spectral Layers Pro 10, Audacity, FOTO: Zoner, DXO, Luminar, Topaz...

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