Hey,
Just upgraded to the new Vegas Pro 21 Edit. I shoot all my footage at weddings, 1080p at 120p. I loaded a project that was done on Vegas Pro 20 Edit, and the clips that I slowed down are playing smooth BUT the clips that are playing at normal speed are lagging BAD. My project is set for QFHD 24p (3840x2160, 23.976 fps)
Running on:
Windows 11
i9 13900KF
32 GB RAM
nVidia RTX 3060 12 GB
Going back to Vegas Pro 20 for now.
Are they AVC or HEVC? Are the settings in preferences file io the same between versions?
Is resample disabled in project properties?
Yeah I made sure all settings in Options are same. I will check the Resample thing cause I have that off in Pro 20 Edit
I'm doing Magix AVC/AAC MP4
Yes File IO settings are all matched fine and Resample is Disabled as in 20
I shoot all my footage at weddings, 1080p at 120p
My project is set for QFHD 24p (3840x2160, 23.976 fps)
That's a big part of the problem, as your source and project are different, and Vegas must reprocess everything in real time for previewing. I can't make any comparisons between Vegas versions along those lines.
Shoot at the resolution and frame rate you intend to deliver, match your project to your media, and use a proxy file if you intend to shoot high frame rate video.
Its all played like butter in Vegas Pro 20. I always shoot high frame rates in case I want to slow a shot down and ALWAYS render in 4K at 23,976
ALL people shoot at different settings from their timeline. ALL PEOPLE
I just started a new project in 21 and I put a music track in and dragged a 1080p file into the timeline. At normal, it is VERY LAGGY but as soon as I slow it down, EVEN TO JUST 0.700 it plays PERFECT. Anything from 0.800 speed up to 1.000 is VERY LAGGY
Even if I set to Preview of DRAFT at QUARTER. STILL LAGGY
Just for test I brought a clip shot 1080 at 120p and made the Project 4K at 59,940 and it did smooth out BUT I've always shot 1080 at 120p and put the timeline at 23,976 and it played smooth on Vegas Pro 17, 19 and 20 Edit
Would you mind sharing one of your 120 frame per second clips with us so we can see if we can replicate it on our systems?
If setting the project to 60 frames per second fixes the problem, until we can figure out what the cause is, you can use that as a workaround, get your editing done at 60 frames per second, and then switch it back to 24P before you render.
ALL people shoot at different settings from their timeline. ALL PEOPLE
If my hired guns do the shooting, and I do the editing and postproductions, everything is matched from door to door, for two decades.
I am unable to preview 120 fps at full frame rate on my system, with any version of Vegas Pro.
I used to do some high fps media for exactly the reason you mentioned, but my output in older Vegas was always an exact integer factor of the source -- wrt the linear math we all had to work with then.
Now, we have optical flow resampling, making most of that unnecessary with pretty decent results. That's the approach I take with others' work.
Keep an open mind, don't be afraid to experiment, and best of luck with your endeavor. I don't think I have anything more to offer to the discussion.😉
am unable to preview 120 fps at full frame rate on my system, with any version of Vegas Pro.
They could in VP20, they can't in VP21, that's the context, and that needs to be looked into to better VP21 or to set the customer straight with settings/drivers that may have changed resulting in this problem. You don't want to do a workaround to hide a problem that could be fixed
Yes it works great in VP20 as Todd-A0 stated. It should work even better in VP21
ALL people shoot at different settings from their timeline. ALL PEOPLE
If my hired guns do the shooting, and I do the editing and postproductions, everything is matched from door to door, for two decades.
I am unable to preview 120 fps at full frame rate on my system, with any version of Vegas Pro.
I used to do some high fps media for exactly the reason you mentioned, but my output in older Vegas was always an exact integer factor of the source -- wrt the linear math we all had to work with then.
Now, we have optical flow resampling, making most of that unnecessary with pretty decent results. That's the approach I take with others' work.
Keep an open mind, don't be afraid to experiment, and best of luck with your endeavor. I don't think I have anything more to offer to the discussion.😉
As wedding filmmakers, we all shoot at higher frame rates in case of bad movement or we just want to make the shot stand out. What we are talking about here, has never been a problem with earlier versions of Vegas. I and other wedding filmmakers have ALWAYS shot at higher frame rates, just in case, and it has played butter smooth on 17 thru 20 on my system. Even my older laptop, I used to use primarily.
This is strange as to why there would be a difference as VP 20.411 and VP 21.108 are very similar. Also strange why 120p footage would work well on a 60p timeline but not 24. You're sure the framerates are correct (23.976, 59.96, 119.
You say the footage is AVC- would you mind sharing exactly what it is? MediaInfo can help with that (or if you upload a sample as Frosty asked we can do this for you. I'd also be happy to test a file). https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/
Would you mind sharing one of your 120 frame per second clips with us so we can see if we can replicate it on our systems?
If setting the project to 60 frames per second fixes the problem, until we can figure out what the cause is, you can use that as a workaround, get your editing done at 60 frames per second, and then switch it back to 24P before you render.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mWUshNmcfTknoQuCfJqHF8c_8uwuNjsY/view?usp=sharing
Should work hopefully. I tried uploading but was taking too long. Maybe copy and paste if doesn't work clicking.
Its probably compressed on Google Drive but it should still be 120p
This is strange as to why there would be a difference as VP 20.411 and VP 21.108 are very similar. Also strange why 120p footage would work well on a 60p timeline but not 24. You're sure the framerates are correct (23.976, 59.96, 119.
You say the footage is AVC- would you mind sharing exactly what it is? MediaInfo can help with that (or if you upload a sample as Frosty asked we can do this for you. I'd also be happy to test a file). https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/
The footage is mp4 from SONY. The Project is Magix AVC/AAC
This is strange as to why there would be a difference as VP 20.411 and VP 21.108 are very similar. Also strange why 120p footage would work well on a 60p timeline but not 24. You're sure the framerates are correct (23.976, 59.96, 119.
You say the footage is AVC- would you mind sharing exactly what it is? MediaInfo can help with that (or if you upload a sample as Frosty asked we can do this for you. I'd also be happy to test a file). https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/
Thanks, this is perfect.
Quick test: perfect playback at preview full and best/full with the 120p footage at 23.976p on my i7-7700HQ laptop with Intel QSV (HD 630) for decoding. Also plays back full speed on a 59.94p timeline. For me legacy AVC is not checked in preferences, file io. The Intel QSV decoder is selected (you also have this selected with your UHD 770?)
Also plays back fine as slow motion but that's to be expected.
For now let me share MediaInfo for this a7III footage:
General
Complete name : C0181.MP4
Format : XAVC
Codec ID : XAVC (XAVC/mp42/iso2)
File size : 204 MiB
Duration : 16 s 520 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 104 Mb/s
Frame rate : 119.880 FPS
Encoded date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings : CABAC / 2 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference fra : 2 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 16 s 517 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 100.0 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 119.880 (120000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.402
Stream size : 196 MiB (96%)
Encoded date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : xvYCC
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Metas : 3
Codec configuration box : avcC
Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Big / Signed
Codec ID : twos
Duration : 16 s 520 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 3.02 MiB (1%)
Encoded date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
Other
ID : 3
Type : meta
Format : rtmd
Codec ID : rtmd
Duration : 16 s 517 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Encoded date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
Tagged date : 2023-07-22 14:51:12 UTC
VP 21 really should be able to handle this media just fine with your hardware.
To clarify, Google Drive doesn't recompress the file- I downloaded the original with the full metadata intact.
The project isn't MagixAVC, that's what the render will eventually be. The project is 1080p24 and media is Sony XAVC-S (AVC). You can render your project to any format you like.
For me I have to enable legacy AVC decoder to get smooth 23.976fps. GPU decoder (Nvidia) works fine at 59.94fps and 119.880fps, but at 23.976 GPU decoder overloads. This is a vegas problem with Nvidia GPU decoder. In other NLE's GPU decode is around 30% in Vegas it's near 100% and presumably overloading due to improper requests from Vegas
With Vegas Pro 21-108, my Intel on-die UHD 770 can play the media at 119.880 fps or 23.976 fps with no issue.
I wrote a scathing comment earlier about your practice of recording at very high frames rates on the possibility that you might do slow motion in delivery, but my libertarian nature got the better of me and I deleted the comment before posting. I'm perfectly willing to allow you to think and do as you please.
My Considered Opinion
You're wasting a lot of camera bits that will never make it to the viewer with the practice. Let me assure you, "ALL people shoot at different settings from their timeline. ALL PEOPLE." could be true, but that don't make it a good idea.
@Sandhill_Films Based on our experience with Intel, and Todd's report about NVDEC, can you make sure your i9 13900k (if it's an i9 it's not a 13500) has its UHD 770 enabled and doing decoding in VEGAS preferences, file io? Your workflow should be fine in VP 21.
If your Intel driver is old you can get an updated one here. If it's not enabled go into your bios/UEFI and enable it (how to do this is motherboard specific).