confusion about what is sold as "transitions"

Mindmatter wrote on 11/26/2023, 11:29 AM

Hi all

I bought a bunch of transitions and LUTs on the internet, only to discover that what I got was actually just a large collection of short overlayable mp4 clips supposed to be put on top of a cut. By what I thought I understood, transitions like those inside Vegas are actually much more that that, or rather something entirely different, like short scripts?
What format are the vegas transitions actually in? When I watched that company's tutorial on scripts (they put a link to a tutorial in the download only), they ironically also use what I call "real transitions" to manipulate the clips on the track above the cut.
So I'm kinda confused and not too happy and asked them for a refund , I'll see what they say.

So can you actually buy and import "real" transitions for Vegas?

Thanks!

Last changed by Mindmatter

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Comments

Gid wrote on 11/26/2023, 11:41 AM

@Mindmatter Hi, somebody a little while ago posted about transitions, it turns out the transitions he had were actually just 'clips' that were applied on top of a fade as you mentioned, I'll keep looking for that post.

can you actually buy and import "real" transitions for Vegas?

Yes, Newblue & Boris make Transitions,

https://newbluefx.com/products/transitions/transitions-ultimate/

Boris ones are inc in Continuum or Sapphire.

These are the third party transitions on my system.

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Mindmatter wrote on 11/26/2023, 11:42 AM

Thanks Gid, that's kinda what I suspected. I just watched the NB ones, some are a bit to cheesy for what I'm looking for, a few of them also seem to be available in Vegas already. I'll see about the Boris ones.

EDIT: Jeez, the Saphire pricing in Boris...really??😱 Continuum seems a bit more reasonable.

Last changed by Mindmatter on 11/26/2023, 11:56 AM, changed a total of 4 times.

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Gid wrote on 11/26/2023, 12:12 PM

 

EDIT: Jeez, the Saphire pricing in Boris...really??😱 Continuum seems a bit more reasonable.

@Mindmatter 😂👍

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Gid wrote on 11/26/2023, 12:42 PM

@Mindmatter Yeah from what I've learnt most transitions are fades or wipes.... of some kind with added effects like glow or blur, the Vegas GL transitions are hard to beat,

Sapphire is expensive, it has a cool app S_Transition that allows you to add effects to the start clip & the next clip, they have a basis that is fades, wipes or flips..

Continuum has some of the transitions as fxs that you add to a clip & can make 'transition' manually, + you get all the other fxs which all have Mocha Masking/tracking in them.

These are two that I've added, a Ring wipe where the rings grow to reveal the image below & a Linear wipe that has a red bar on the edge of the wipe that crosses with the wipe, basic transitions & not the best combination. You have to keyframe transition progress..

Newblue does have some interesting 3D ones but I think the Vegas GL transitions are similar,

I think there's a limit to how you can transition from one clip to the next with added effects. Saying that the possibilities are endless but in the end you're still just transitioning from one clip to the other.

One of my favorites is BCC+Crashzoom.

 

Last changed by Gid on 11/26/2023, 1:41 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

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Gid wrote on 11/26/2023, 12:54 PM

@Mindmatter If you do consider buying Continuum, use the little chat window bottom right of their website page, ask for their best price, It's Black Friday deals at the moment so you prob won't get better than those prices but I always use that window to purchase mine, you get a real person who'll give you a discounted price, he'll send you an email, pay & he'll send you Activation etc.. He stays online to check it all goes correctly 👍

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Mindmatter wrote on 11/26/2023, 1:05 PM

Thanks a bunch Gid!

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Reyfox wrote on 11/28/2023, 7:40 AM

@Mindmatter not sure if you would consider Pixelan's Spicemaster 3. Organic wipes.

john-brown wrote on 11/28/2023, 11:32 AM

@Mindmatter

Hi,

+1 for Pixelan SpiceMaster 3. You can download and install it to try it. It will just leave an X on the screen.

In the first image, you can see the listing of presets by subject. Some have more than 1 page.

 

Start with a preset and then change whatever you want using the parameters.

The next 2 screens show the parameters as there are more than can be shown in one image:

Most of the parameters can be keyframed.

In addition to the presets, you can add masks, or what Pixelan calls Spices. The next image shows the categories of masks which, of course, can be keyframed for size and position and more.

The possibilities are almost limitless.

Note that changing the transition length in Vegas will just change the Pixelan transition proportionately.

While on the subject of Pixelan, if you do color grading and use LUTs, you may want to abandon LUTs after reviewing Pixelan FilmTouch 2 Pro. Along with the hundreds of presets, which one would call LUTs, you see exactly the parameters to get them and you can modify them to your heart's content and keyframe them. Again, limitless possibilities.

Below, listing of categories with just one open:

The tools:

With a LUT, you don't know what was done.

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Mindmatter wrote on 11/28/2023, 12:13 PM

Thanks, I had a look and they don't particularly appeal to me. I was just looking for a way to transition a few consecutive interview shots with different people. I ended up always finding the transitions, whatever kind, kinda intrusive, too much visual information, and unnecessary and ended up going for simple cuts. If anything, I might add a few frames of a black/color or pic or logo or something.

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Gid wrote on 11/28/2023, 12:32 PM

Thanks, I had a look and they don't particularly appeal to me. I was just looking for a way to transition a few consecutive interview shots with different people. I ended up always finding the transitions, whatever kind, kinda intrusive, too much visual information, and unnecessary and ended up going for simple cuts. If anything, I might add a few frames of a black/color or pic or logo or something.


@Mindmatter Agreed, they're good for certain projects but not for some, my YT vids are 'educational' woodworking, the clips have a very simple 12frame crossfade because I prefer that to a hard cut, I find it a bit easier on the eye but generally my vids have to be true to life, colour etc. without any fancy fx stuff.

PS, The problem with adding 'black/color or pic or logo' is that that kind of effect happens at the end of something, either a 'transition' between subject matter or at the end of the video, - that is visual as in a change of scenery or a change in the topic discussed in the video. So adding a black/color or pic or logo has to be placed carefully, If for instance you're watching a clip, you're fully immersed in it then a black 'insert' happens however briefly, you're concentration can be lost, your brain says something new is about to happen, but the conversation continues as it was before, this messes with your head.

Last changed by Gid on 11/28/2023, 12:45 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Mindmatter wrote on 11/29/2023, 5:50 AM

These inserts should ideally be very short, like a brief comma or blib so to mark a short boundary between two events. I agree that they shouldn't come across as an event by themselves.

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Gid wrote on 11/29/2023, 6:36 AM

@Mindmatter I watched somebody's video a little while ago, it was a bunch of clips of him & the wife walking around a place they visited, he had a few fades through black, It's not easy to describe but it was a bit annoying. I tried it with a few of my clips but I remember it being worse on his. The bit I remember was the camera walking up to a car near the beach/grassy dunes with the wife stood by the car, next shot - through black - was a close-up of the wife. maybe his transitions were too long or it didn't suite the context, it was a nice sunny happy day & through black just felt wrong.

I just put this together but it doesn't seem so bad with this, maybe because I am changing 'location' in each clip. Bright picture then through black makes it a bit like a subtle strobe effect 🤷‍♂️🙈😎

This is more like I usually make with a 12frame crossfade, ignore the excellent editing, i just threw these together for this. 😉

Last changed by Gid on 11/29/2023, 6:48 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

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lan-mLMC wrote on 11/29/2023, 7:10 AM

I bought a bunch of transitions and LUTs on the internet, only to discover that what I got was actually just a large collection of short overlayable mp4 clips supposed to be put on top of a cut.

You may have bought non-overlapping transitions. They don't require you to overlap two events.

The transitions built in Vegas are overlapping, so you need to overlap two events to add them.

These two kind of transitions have their own advantages.

EricLNZ wrote on 11/29/2023, 4:57 PM

@Gid I prefer your crossfade version.

It's common nowadays when seeing cuts in TV interviews to have a soft white flash effect. That works well.

With your videos you could consider using a clock wipe when you want to indicate a passage of time.

Gid wrote on 11/29/2023, 5:58 PM

@EricLNZ

@Gid I prefer your crossfade version.

Yep, to me that is better, the orig file i used already had crossfades that I didn't remove so there's a jump here n there, but it flows better from one to the next & is a bit easier on the eye.

With your videos you could consider using a clock wipe when you want to indicate a passage of time.

I have in the past, but time for most of my work is not really calculable or important enough to visualize it, each job is done when it's done. Only when something is drying like glue or paint does it get mentioned but that all depends on temp, humidity etc. So sometimes with some things it's best not to go into too much detail, online there's plenty of armchair critics,

Glue normally gets left overnight & other drying time periods need a bit more info then a clock wipe will give. When time like that has past I then mention or talk about it in the video, I might inc in the vid a shot of the sunrise or sunset to indicate time, the start or end of a day or maybe just the kettle getting switched on 😉

I did get a comment once "Keep the effects to a min", I honestly very very rarely inc any type of fxs in my vids so what they were talking about I'm not sure, but you watch some vids online, 30secs of introduction, a few minutes of talking about 'something', then 5mins of cutting something, banging some nails in & before you know it they've painted it, then a few more minutes of talking at the end, often promoting whoever's sponsoring them, 0 detail or info in their vid 🤷‍♂️😮 I do know from other comments i've had they like that my vids don't inc any of that bs, no fancy pointless introduction, no paid products & no standing in front of the camera waffling about unrelated things, it's eye's on the job from start to finish.

I like to keep my videos simple & try to make my them 'flow', sometimes just removing a few frames before or after a 12frame crossfade makes a difference to that flow, so adding any effect like a transition that is more then a very quick fade is almost like a pause. it interrupts the flow, in my eyes anyway.

But there's another factor, my vids comprise of 20-40-ish clips, I try to make a video that completes part of the process of the thing I'm making or at least finishes on a natural break point & the vid incs all of the small individual processes needed to make that bigger thing,. My vids are 20mins-ish long so to compress hrs of work & fit all that in I have to keep the content to only what's necessary, clock wipes or other transitions generally need more than 12frames, that's time I don't have to spare ...... I'm waffling now 😂🤦‍♂️

 

Last changed by Gid on 11/29/2023, 6:12 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

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set wrote on 11/30/2023, 4:12 PM

For me, simple cross dissolve can work as 'time-passes effect' when the frame composition is the same.

Lately my transitions is just simple cuts, cross dissolve, fade to color, and zoom-in / zoom-out, slides. The most important still the content of each shot that builds a sequence.

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Gid wrote on 11/30/2023, 4:48 PM

The most important still the content of each shot that builds a sequence.

@set Agreed, I've still got a lot to learn but I've tried to keep in mind the flow of the video when I'm filming it.. 👍

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At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 

3POINT wrote on 12/1/2023, 3:00 AM

I bought a bunch of transitions and LUTs on the internet, only to discover that what I got was actually just a large collection of short overlayable mp4 clips supposed to be put on top of a cut.

You may buy non-overlapping transitions. They don't require you to overlap two events.

The transitions built in Vegas are overlapping, so you need to overlap two events to add them.

These two kind of transitions have their own advantages.

In my other NLE, I can decide for each transition if the transition is overlapping or crossing.

A big advantage of crossing transitions is that you can add them afterwards to simple cuts of a finished video without shortening the overall video length. (it doesn't affect the audio).

Ofcourse not each transistion is suitable for crossing, but a lot are. Crossing transitions, a feature I miss in Vegas.

Mindmatter wrote on 12/1/2023, 9:10 AM

The Vegas transitions don't require events to overlap, just to be adjacent frame to frame. They use the end of one and the start of the other event to generate the transition. What's a bit annoying is that when you delete the transition, Vegas creates a crossfade where the transition has been instead of simply reverting to the cut as it was before.

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john-brown wrote on 12/1/2023, 9:42 AM

@Mindmatter

Hi,

The Vegas transitions don't require events to overlap, just to be adjacent frame to frame. They use the end of one and the start of the other event to generate the transition. What's a bit annoying is that when you delete the transition, Vegas creates a crossfade where the transition has been instead of simply reverting to the cut as it was before.

Not quite. When you drag a transition to the interface that has no overlap, Vegas creates the overlap by moving the right event to the left. When you remove the transition, the cross fade, or overlap remains. This is normal.

John CB

Last changed by john-brown on 12/1/2023, 9:46 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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Gid wrote on 12/1/2023, 10:32 AM

@Mindmatter

Hi,

The Vegas transitions don't require events to overlap, just to be adjacent frame to frame. They use the end of one and the start of the other event to generate the transition. What's a bit annoying is that when you delete the transition, Vegas creates a crossfade where the transition has been instead of simply reverting to the cut as it was before.

Not quite. When you drag a transition to the interface that has no overlap, Vegas creates the overlap by moving the right event to the left. When you remove the transition, the cross fade, or overlap remains. This is normal.

John CB

@john-brown No it doesn't, it does as @Mindmatter says

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john-brown wrote on 12/1/2023, 10:59 AM

@Gid

You are quite right. I had looping on.

John CB

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Gid wrote on 12/1/2023, 11:04 AM

@Gid

You are quite right. I had looping on.

John CB

@john-brown So did I, that is shown by the Loop Region at the top being coloured blue,

In Event properties & Preferences,

Last changed by Gid on 12/1/2023, 11:10 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Vegas Pro 21 
Magix Movie Studio Platinum 2024 - from 2004-ish - Latest version,
Magix VPX14
Boris Continuum & Sapphire, 
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Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
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Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
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I'm 55, I've been a UK joiner for 39yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that I can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra 

Gid wrote on 12/1/2023, 11:23 AM

@john-brown @Mindmatter The loop is shown by the little black downward pointing triangles, I point to them in my vid.

Changing the Event options to Hold or Trim still doesn't 'move the right event to the left'

Vegas Pro 21 
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Desktop PC Microsoft Windows 10 Pro - 64-Bit
ASUS PRO WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI AMD Motherboard
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3975WX 3.5GHz 32 Core
Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT 360mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler
RAM 256GB ( 8x Micron 32GB (1x 32GB) 2666MHz DDR4 RAM )
2x Western Digital Black SN850 2TB M.2-2280 SSD, 7000MB/s Read, 5100MB/s Write
(programs on one, project files on the other)
Graphics MSI GeForce RTX 3090 SUPRIM X 24GB OC GPU
ASUS ROG Thor 1200W Semi-Modular 80+ Platinum PSU 
Fractal Design Define 7 XL Dark TG Case with 3 Fans
Dell SE3223Q 31.5 Inch 4K UHD (3840x2160) Monitor, 60Hz, 

I'm 55, I've been a UK joiner for 39yrs, apprentice trained & time served, I make videos about my work & post them on Youtube so that I can share what I've learnt over the yrs,
https://www.youtube.com/c/Gidjoiner

At the moment my filming is done with a Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra