@Former user

Yes, they are different. From what I see in the Vegas 18 manual and my trial, is that if the events have been trimmed (or one or both are photos) then Vegas will extend the right end of the left object to the right, and the left end of the right event to the left to create the overlap, much like when looping is on.

If untrimmed, then, as far as I can tell, Vegas takes the last frame of the left event, and uses it as a still to create the transition, the duration of which is all on the right event.

What I can't find is what MMS does, move the right object to the left to make the overlay without dragging one event over the other. Is there a way to do this?

John CB

@john-brown It isn't the last frame, it's a Loop determined by the setting in Preferences. try changing this setting, apply the transition to an un-trimmed pair of events, then drag the transition apart , double click in the audio space between & the range will select that gap, then bottom right it will tell you the range length (or just double click on the transition before dragging it apart & that will select only the transition length as the loop range)

Yes if the events have been trimmed it uses the hidden trimmed part of the event rather then Looping the event to create the crossfade. If you double click on the event edge it will Expand the tracks, you'll see what has been trimmed & can adjust the transition,

What I can't find is what MMS does, move the right object to the left to make the overlay without dragging one event over the other. Is there a way to do this?

I'm not sure, I've never come across this problem because most of my clips get trimmed, I only use a 12frame crossfade in the vids, or if I'm playing with transitions I'll drag a crossfade 1st then apply the transition. If I find out how or if it's poss I'll update this post.

I've always manually created my overlaps before dragging a transition to that overlap. I can see if events haven't been trimmed that this is a looping issue and I don't know of a way to prevent it at the beginning of an even other than moving it manually first (which is what I would do). It could be done with scripting but it's actually easier to just manually drag it left than it would be to run the script - unless you had a custom command that was always auto detecting event changes in which case it might be able to detect, undo the change, and move the event. However, this all looks "by design" assuming you'll create the overlap BEFORE adding the transition.

I have used the "/" on the numeric keypad to add overlaps many times but I always know that I am working with trimmed events in those cases. I guess the biggest reason for manually adding the crossfade would be that I don't want VEGAS messing up things by moving my events (i.e. if the video only was moved, it could not be out of sync with the audio - if video + audio were moved, I could now have a gap after that event where it met up with the next event that I might miss, etc...)

The Vegas transitions don't require events to overlap, just to be adjacent frame to frame. They use the end of one and the start of the other event to generate the transition. What's a bit annoying is that when you delete the transition, Vegas creates a crossfade where the transition has been instead of simply reverting to the cut as it was before.

No, it still needs to overlap. Vegas will automatically lengthen the head of event B and the tail of event A to create an overlap. This usually introduces frames that users don't want, which is a big potential problem.

The Vegas transitions don't require events to overlap, just to be adjacent frame to frame. They use the end of one and the start of the other event to generate the transition. What's a bit annoying is that when you delete the transition, Vegas creates a crossfade where the transition has been instead of simply reverting to the cut as it was before.

No, it still needs to overlap. Vegas will automatically lengthen the head of event B and the tail of event A to create an overlap. This usually introduces frames that users don't want, which is a big potential problem.

Actually, that's why I don't like Premiere and most other NLE's. They automatically add a "head" and "tail" to the two events to create the transition. VEGAS can work that way but I like creating my own overlap as I can specifically know exactly what frames are used in the transition and I can specify how long the transition is to be by just creating the overlap.

but I like creating my own overlap as I can specifically know exactly what frames are used in the transition and I can specify how long the transition is to be by just creating the overlap.

But this actually increases the user's working time.

In fact, many video editing users now use the workflow of editing the footages first and then adding the transition finally. This workflow is more and more widely used.
This workflow requires that the transition can't move the event forward to create an overlapping area, and can't extend the head of the B event and the tail of the A event to create overlay. These are all to avoid destroying the existing timeline footages layout or introducing unnecessary frames (frames of different scenes of the same footage).

In this workflow, non-overlapping transition is particularly important. There are three main types of non-overlapping transitions today:

1. Transitions based on adjustment events
2. Stock Video Footage : The transition bought by @Mindmatter should belong to this
3. Non-overlapping transition in some editors like PowerDirector mentioned by @3POINT

I really want to tag @gary-rebholz . This workflow of editing first and finally adding transitions has been widely adopted by many users. In order to cater to this workflow, Vegas Team should explore how to improve the current transition mode in Vegas, to make it not to extend the head of the event B and the tail of the event A or not to move Event B forward.

For many yrs I used Magix Movie Studio (Movie Edit Pro it was),

My videos are simple one track projects, maybe a track or two if pictures & text are added,

I'd load all or half the clips depending on length, right click & add a crossfade to all, then work my way along them trimming start & end, & prob bits in the middle of clips, U - trim end, Z - trim start & T - for cut. Sometimes though I would add the crossfades at the end after trimming or have to add a crossfade, right click 'Add transition to all'. In my video above it shows that each clip gets moved, therefore I never had any worry of this Looping issue whether the clips got trimmed or not.

In Vegas I do the same, A - trim end, D - trim start & S - for cut, but if I've already trimmed a clip, then used Mocha to mask something, then rendered just that clip & add it back to the timeline I might end up with a loop happening, like i say I do add my own crossfade manually but this is a concern that I need to keep in mind.

This workflow requires that the transition can't move the event forward to create an overlapping area, and can't extend the head of the B event and the tail of the A event to create overlay. These are all to avoid destroying the existing timeline footages layout or introducing unnecessary frames.

@lan-mLMC Please explain how this is able to create a transition when one frame changes into another such as a crossfade?

This workflow requires that the transition can't move the event forward to create an overlapping area, and can't extend the head of the B event and the tail of the A event to create overlay. These are all to avoid destroying the existing timeline footages layout or introducing unnecessary frames.

@lan-mLMC Please explain how this is able to create a transition when one frame changes into another such as a crossfade?

@EricLNZ This is what software developers need to innovate. It is the core competitiveness of a software.

As a user, the solutions I can think of are:

1. When adding a transition to the junction of two events, the first frame at the head of event B extends forward with a still frame, and the last frame at the tail of event A extends backward with a still frame. This can not only avoid moving event B forward, but also avoid introducing unnecessary frames (frames of different scenes of the same footage), killing two birds with one stone;
2. When adding a transition to the junction of two events, the head of event B extends forward in the form of stretching, and the tail of event A extends backward in the form of stretching. This can achieve the same goal.

This is the implementation I can think of as a user. Software developers may have a better implementation. Hope @gary-rebholz can see these thoughts.

@lan-mLMC Thanks but I doubt that either would work in many situations. Solution 1 will give a freeze for the duration of the transition which if there's movement will be noticeable. With Solution 2 "stretching" would take what form? Both methods introduce additional frames.

Obviously developers must have some other way of achieving this. But when you have two images transitioning from one to the other it means both are partly visible at the same time. For the best image continuity during this period you need to be using your original material not a frozen frame.

Currently it appears editors that don't overlap like Vegas do what what @jetdv said earlier when he said "Actually, that's why I don't like Premiere and most other NLE's. They automatically add a "head" and "tail" to the two events to create the transition".

Solution 1 will give a freeze for the duration of the transition which if there's movement will be noticeable.

@EricLNZ When the movement of footage content is not obvious, or the transition time is short, this freezing will not be obvious, and it is also significant for many users. Although not all users, it is worth adding as long as it is useful to a large number of users.

With Solution 2 "stretching" would take what form? Both methods introduce additional frames.

In fact, no extra frames are introduced, and the effective frames used are still the frames of this scene, and the frames of other scenes of the same footage will not be accidentally introduced.

A quick anecdote: I had a friend that was editing in Cinestream (a LOOOOONG time ago) and that required a head/tail situation like Premiere. He had a single clip that switched scenes (how it was captured from the tape) and he cut it at the scene split. He then put a crossfade on that cut (which added the "head" and "tail".) Of course, the "head" was the end of the first clip and the "tail" was the beginning of the second one so he played back the timeline and got a cut. That's when he called me over to look at why he was getting a cut instead of a dissolve. Took a little bit to realize what he had done. He was getting a dissolve, it was just dissolving into itself! So I then had to go in, cut off some of the head and some of the tail, slide the second clip over, and then add the dissolve.

That's why I like overlapping first...

Finding a proper and suitable transition is almost an art form. The style used is certainly fashion, personal taste and era bound. The problem is that the possibilities are endless, but more often than not it can ruin your project and look amateurish and cheesy. Over the years I find myself restraining more and more from fancy transitions and stick to simple stuff like hard cuts and cross dissolves, my 2 cents.