Delivering on usb stick...3 Questions.

Julius_ wrote on 8/16/2015, 10:11 PM
I had a few requests to deliver on a USB stick.

I record from a canon 7d .mov file format and usually the "unedited version" is about 2 hours and the edited project is about 45 minutes.

Seeing that there as so many USB sticks with different specs along with TVs, I'd like to select a template setting that would play on computers or smart TVs (with usb key 3.0 plugged in).

So I'm looking into mp4..

Q1: I'm guessing the "Sony Tablet 1080p" template at 12,000,000 is a wise choice (yeah??)

Q2: I also like the m2ts format (the AVCHD 1920x1080 template at 15,000,000) and from what I've seen, it plays everywhere. I'm not sure if it will do well for a 2 hour file. Is this also a wise choice?

Q3: Would "handbrake" also work for the length of my projects? I think the file size would be a lot smaller.

Any other suggestions or route I should go?

Other notes: I usually deliver on BluRay but this last month I'd had 4 clients saying that they don't have bluray players and want a USB stick (even though it was mentioned in their contract that it would be BluRay..I guess they thought they would buy it one day..)



ushere wrote on 8/17/2015, 3:59 AM
q1 - i usually send my usb's out at 8 (mostly either talking head style stuff, horses, or mini doco). there's always someone with an antique device that balks at really high data rates.

q2 - sure, if you can guarantee it'll play on all your clients / audiences devices. as above, there's an awful lot of older technology out there still.

q3 - i'm no expert with hb, have only used it very rarely when i've need a very low bitrate, otherwise mp4 out of vegas works just as well at higher bit rates imho.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/17/2015, 6:40 PM
Most USB flash drives are fat32 file system, which limits you to 4 GB per file.
Rob Franks wrote on 8/17/2015, 7:03 PM
A flash drive can be formatted as NTFS.
Fat32 is simply the default because it works most universally across different hardware pieces.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/17/2015, 7:22 PM
Yes, but "are" and "can be" are two different statements.
Most Macs still don't support NTFS file system or 64-bit media headers, and so it's still 4 GB either way.
JackW wrote on 8/17/2015, 7:35 PM
Right, but using the "Convert" command from the command line allows for a quick reformatting from FAT32 to NTSF. Takes about a minute.

Convert X: /fs:ntfs (where X is the drive in which the thumb drive is located.
Julius_ wrote on 8/17/2015, 7:42 PM
actually MAC will read NTFS, it just can't write to them.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/17/2015, 8:40 PM

Once again, SOME Mac versions will read NTFS.
Earlier OSX versions will not.

SOME Mac versions will read 64 bit media file headers.
Earlier OSX versions will not.

You need BOTH in order to read mp4/mov greater than 4 GB on a Mac.

FAT32 with files under 4 GB are readable almost anywhere.

DGates wrote on 8/17/2015, 10:01 PM
It makes delivering on DVD and Blu-ray seem SO much less of a pain in the butt.
videoITguy wrote on 8/17/2015, 10:21 PM
and it is! Good grief , I just cannot understand the pursuit of the sticks!
DGates wrote on 8/17/2015, 10:24 PM
I get the allure of the convenience of the sticks. But for me, it's just not there yet.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/17/2015, 11:00 PM
In my experience, the purpose of a customer asking for a USB stick is not to play it on their TV. They just want something with better quality than DVD that they can play on their computer or any device they choose.

To that end, just render using MainConcept AVC with the Internet 1080p template and put it on a USB stick. I wouldn't worry if their TV can play it or not. That's the customer's problem because there is no standard for USB playback. This is no different than DVD's that come with downloadable digital copies. It's just an MP4 file that may or may not play on your TV; that's not it's purpose.

You can format the USB stick as ExFAT if you are worried about Windows/Mac compatibility for files larger than 4GB.

DGates wrote on 8/18/2015, 1:44 AM
That's the template I render to when a customer wants a digital copy. But I don't mess with USB sticks. I just put it up on Dropbox and let then do with it as they please. Cheaper that way too.
ushere wrote on 8/18/2015, 3:16 AM
@ jr

why the mc template rather than the sony one?

just curious

@ dgates

agree - i use dropbox, mega, and gdrive to deliver files, but for the last few years all my distribution has been on usb. in most cases they've been 'branded' so even when the files are gone the company logo / whatever lives on. i think i've burnt a couple of small projects to dvd but they were for private individuals.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/18/2015, 7:23 AM
The kiddos distribute their videos on MicroSD phone cards wrapped in a stick of gum.
Julius_ wrote on 8/18/2015, 2:04 PM
Thanks to all who replied....yes I totally agree that burning to BluRay is soooo much easier!!!

I'm seeing couples more and more that they don't have players anymore...with these smart TVs, there's no need anymore. One couple uses their laptop hooked to a TV.

I do tell them that I don't guarantee it will play on TVs and that they may have problems if it does play (i.e. audio/video sync issues), but playing on computers will work.

Even with all these warnings, they still want an mp4 someone said, they just want a copy on digital format because we know Discs can scratch.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/18/2015, 2:08 PM
> "@ jr... why the mc template rather than the sony one? just curious"

The MainConcept AVC encoder seems to be better at lower bit rates and streaming while the Sony AVC seems to be better suited for high bit-rate Blu-ray.

Also, Sony moved the "Internet" templates from their Sony encoder to the MainConcept encoder which seems to suggest that they also recommend using MC for Internet encoding.

john_dennis wrote on 8/18/2015, 3:39 PM
I've read this thread but stayed out of it until now. Here are my first thoughts when confronted with your scenario.

"[I]... it was mentioned in their contract that it would be BluRay.[/I]"

I would follow the normal [I]Blu-ray[/I] workflow and produce the highest quality video at the high bit rates that [I]Blu-ray[/I] allows. After rendering the video (AVC) and audio (AC3) elementary streams, either continue to produce a [I]Blu-ray[/I] ISO with DVD Architect or mux the elementary streams into an .m2ts container with tsMuxer. If you choose to create an ISO you can mount the image and extract the 0000.m2ts - 000n.m2ts files from the Drive Letter:\BDMV\STREAM folder.

I would then buy a 16GB or 32 GB USB drive, format it NTFS or exFAT and write the whole kit and caboodle to it. Show them how beautifully it plays when plugged into a TV in your shop and move on with life.

It appears to me that you're attempting to accommodate a change to the contract after the fact and playing to the lowest common denominator in terms of playability at the expense of the quality of the video. I've shopped Best Buy for current production TVs to use and found that not all current models will play files that one would most expect to work. As I remember, I took files rendered with the Mainconcept Sony Tablet 1080p template, MPEG-2 files and Handbrake renders along with the muxed [I]Blu-ray[/I] rendered elementary streams. I agree with JR that "[I]...there is no standard for USB playback.[/I]" I don't even find continuity with the same hardware manufacturer over time and models.

No one person can sort this out for the population of all player combinations. See small print.

All my recommendations come with a money back guarantee. If you find I'm all wet, you can have your money back.
set wrote on 8/19/2015, 10:52 AM
Right now I'm following Youtube's Recommended settings, even though it is not to be uploaded.
Works well.


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MSmart wrote on 8/27/2015, 9:11 PM
I'm working on a project to provide a video on a USB stick to play on a Sony KDL-40W600B TV, all the basic codecs are supported.

However, I'm not sure if the TV can be set to loop the video as the TV will be in a Dr. office waiting room and needs to play continuously. There is another thread talking about Drax to set chapter marks but doesn't mention looping.

If the TV can't be set to play the video continuously, how do I make the file start over automatically?
MSmart wrote on 8/27/2015, 9:42 PM
I suppose I should have done some searching first before posting.

If the file can't be modified to do it and the TV can't be set to replay, I suppose I'll have to purchase a couple of these:

Micca Spec G2 digital media player.
ushere wrote on 8/27/2015, 10:47 PM
how long is the program?

could always simply repeat prog on a 32gb usb.... should last a working day if long enough in the first place ;-)

john_dennis wrote on 8/28/2015, 12:49 AM
I took a program on a USB drive to Best Buy to shop for a 32" TV to loop in a lobby. When it was all over, I left with a Samsung (not my first choice) just because the particular model would loop.

In the case of the KDL-40W600B, the manual is no help.
MSmart wrote on 8/28/2015, 10:01 AM
It's 30 minutes.

I just rendered a review copy at 1.5Mbps and it came to 357MB.

I could bump up the bitrate so the file size would be 2GB. That would allow 16 copies to be placed on a 32GB drive. I'll have to check on what their office hours are and make sure the play time is long enough. Thanks for the suggestion. A large USB stick is cheaper than the player and you don't have to worry about the AC adapter either.

The Dr office bought the TVs so I didn't have any input. What I found online didn't give any indication of being able to replay or not so I'll have to do a test so see what route to take.

MSmart wrote on 8/30/2015, 10:19 PM
The KDL-40W600B has a repeat option!!

Now to render an AVC mp4 file at a bit rate to fill a 16GB stick, Done.