Extreme Instability When Using GH5 10-Bit 4K Footage

fr0sty wrote on 11/9/2017, 10:37 PM

Vegas Pro is pretty much worthless when trying to edit GH5 footage shot in 10bit. I have had no less than 20 crashes tonight trying to work with it. It hangs on everything from importing the video, to making simple edits, to trying to put a lut filter on the track, to looking at it with a funny expression on your face. I'm shooting 10bit using the 150mbps codec, I haven't even tried the 400mbps all-intra codec yet. Thankfully this is just a personal project and not a production.

System:

Windows 10 64 bit

Ryzen 7 1800x (stock settings)

32GB DDR4 3000mhz (stock settings)

EVGA GTX 970 with latest drivers installed (stock settings)

512gb Samsung Evo 850 M.2 system drive

Has anyone else had similar issues with 10 bit GH5 footage?

Comments

fr0sty wrote on 11/9/2017, 10:53 PM

Finally managed to get to the point of rendering the video. I was able to throw on a GH5 vlog to rec709 LUT and it finally took it without crashing. Hopefully, they can squash this bug in the next update, but in the mean time I suppose I'll encode to ProRes or DNxHD before editing. I just want to retain that 10bit color for grading purposes... Which is better performance-wise? Are there other options?

Edit: I spoke too soon, it hung on frame 202. I had this issue with NVENC once before (since updating my GPU drivers), so I'm going to try a CPU render.

While we're at this... why hasn't anyone bothered to fix the "render cancelled by user" bug where it just hangs on that screen rather than letting me back into Vegas? That has been a bug as long as I've been using Vegas, and I came in on Version 4. Hard to believe some of these bugs are old enough to be in high school if they were humans...

Edit 2: Nope, CPU render hung on frame 214. This video is worthless to me now, I can't even render it to a format I can do anything with.

Edit 3: Disabling both GPU rendering and GPU timeline acceleration, going CPU only, still froze on encoding frame 190 (Mainconcept CPU). Nothing I can figure out will make this video render without crashing.

Edit 4: Tried rendering to ProRes instead, froze again. This is pointless. I can't edit, render, or even convert anything I shot.

Edit 5: 1080p NVENC seems to be working, but no 4K template I can find, regardless of codec, seems to work. So, I can only output my 10 bit 4K video at 1080p 8bit.

NickHope wrote on 11/10/2017, 12:17 AM

All-intra might be easier on your system, because of less compression. But I guess throughput might become an issue because of the high bit rate.

Cineform would be worth considering as a 10-bit option.

p.s. Please don't cross-post.

Former user wrote on 11/10/2017, 4:13 AM

“Has anyone else had similar issues with 10 bit GH5 footage?”

If you can make available, say via dropbox link, a not too big piece/sample that still gives you issues, then other users could download and give you feedback.

Other users might not have similar issues but they wouldn’t be using the same project you’re using, unless it happens with a very simple non FX project piece, in which case then a sample isn’t required.

BruceUSA wrote on 11/10/2017, 9:22 AM

I shot Halloween video on my kids went on Treat or Treat last week with GH5 10 bit 3840 x2160 23.976P. VP15 play back best full with 1 color corrector FX applied. This is with the project property set to 8 bit only. I tried 32 bit floating point full range, this will take vegas and my system to its knee. With 32 bit full setting, it is not editable.

BruceUSA wrote on 11/10/2017, 9:32 AM

Dali's Mustache is a very good transcoder I also have. It can out put Prores and convert GH5 for editing. Cost $25 for the program.

BruceUSA wrote on 11/10/2017, 10:19 AM

I just test the 400Mpbs with 4 FX applied it can play back best full no problem here. The FX are color corrector, color curves 1 color curves 2 and brightness and contrast. I got an old computer 4930K @4.5ghz 64gb ram 2x r9 290X cards.

fr0sty wrote on 11/10/2017, 12:54 PM

Good to hear you had success with all intra, though at 400mbps I'd better get some bigger cards and drives! I will post the project file and media used so you all can try to reproduce the issues, as soon as I get the gig I have to do this weekend wrapped up.

Kinvermark wrote on 11/10/2017, 6:38 PM

I am looking at upgrading to GH5 and was wondering if you are seeing a noticeable benefit from the 10 bit files?

Also, what is the workflow with Vegas? (10 bit in, 32 bit project cc, output to.... ????)

PS Acrovid's FootageStudio also seems to transcode various 10 bit gh5 files.

NickHope wrote on 11/10/2017, 10:38 PM

I just test the 400Mpbs with 4 FX applied it can play back best full no problem here. The FX are color corrector, color curves 1 color curves 2 and brightness and contrast. I got an old computer 4930K @4.5ghz 64gb ram 2x r9 290X cards.

But that's still in an 8-bit project, right @BruceUSA ?

BruceUSA wrote on 11/11/2017, 2:39 PM

I just test the 400Mpbs with 4 FX applied it can play back best full no problem here. The FX are color corrector, color curves 1 color curves 2 and brightness and contrast. I got an old computer 4930K @4.5ghz 64gb ram 2x r9 290X cards.

But that's still in an 8-bit project, right @BruceUSA ?

Correct.

fr0sty wrote on 11/12/2017, 12:33 PM

"I am looking at upgrading to GH5 and was wondering if you are seeing a noticeable benefit from the 10 bit files?"

Night and day difference from 8bit on my gh4, I'm able to do a lot more with the coloring, and the overall quality is just better. Having a 30% wider frame when recording in 4K doesn't hurt either.

Kinvermark wrote on 11/12/2017, 2:22 PM

@fr0sty

Thanks for answering.

Workflow? ie do you need to use 32 bit project for cc to see the benefit? Output format? / Final display?

Thx!

fr0sty wrote on 11/12/2017, 9:13 PM

I started trying 32 bit, but performance was so poor that it was difficult to get much done, not to mention the constant crashing. I was never able to render the gh5 video straight from the source in 4K, but the 1080p render I did after some basic coloring I did starting from a VLOG to REC709 LUT I had came out looking great. Highlights look much more natural, the image looks sharper, and the frame is wider because of no 4K crop. Output format was Magix AVC, internet 1080p. My first test produced impressive results. Maybe I'll post some side by side shots with the gh4 if I can find the time.

fr0sty wrote on 11/18/2017, 5:33 PM

After doing some more testing with this, I found that the instability seems to come in when there are a large number of clips in the project media. When I bring all the clips from that card dump into Vegas, and edit the 3 clips I wanted to edit, Vegas' performance would get very unreliable and would frequently crash. If I delete all clips from the media pool except the ones I'm using, it improves.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 11/19/2017, 2:54 AM

I think the GH5 internal recoded 10bit H.264 files uses the so4 decoder in VP15, and we know that there are some unresolved issues with that decoder.

To transform either to Cineform or to ProRes can help in the meantime. I used TMPGenc a lot, to convert to Cineform before VP15.

What works great is to record to ProRes directly, using an Atomos Ninja Inferno or Shogun Inferno.

NickHope wrote on 11/19/2017, 3:37 AM

Apparently VirtualDub Filtermod can now also be used to transcode to Cineform.

Or you can try losslessly rewrapping to mxf, but bear in mind that the mxf decoder has its own issues with some formats such as long-GOP XAVC.