The "prosumer" category only exists in the minds of marketing people these days. I've got a friend who graduated from film school about six years ago; I'm a self-taught "prosumer." He's constantly amazed at the fact that I now have more video capacity on my desktop than he had access to in a college film program. As far as I'm concerned, as soon as you're making a decent chunk of your living doing something (whether it's digging swimming pools or editing video), you're functioning as some level of professional in that field--regardless of your background or the tools you use.

When it comes to Vegas, the prosumer label seems to be used primarily as a slur based on its low price.

"I am extremely tired of this Trol Rednroll--I dont care what his day job is or how close he is to the people at Sony. He has come in what is basically video forum and been extremely nasty and aggresive from day one"

And deservingly so I did!!! You know what I saw when I came in!? I saw 3 or 4 users bringing down the whole tone of the forum. Crying about the look of the interface, crying about a $200 updgrade price, further crying that they didn't get some tool they thought eccential. While the rest of the forum was excited about the new release and thankful for the "additional", features to the product they use on a daily basis, in which they chose for those core features and interface, instead of having a pipedream that they bought a $100 Geo Metro, that was eventually going to form into a $100,000 BMW before their eyes.

I came in hear and told you some facts, and you disagreed with them, and all of a sudden there where 8 other users informing you that you where wrong. You even had to put a seperate post to make a public appology. I'm pretty excited about the release of Vegas 5.0 and it ticks me off to see a few users in these forums raining on everyone elses parade. I've been using Vegas since it was v1.0 and I bought it because of it's core editing features. It's grown into a great app on the audio side and video side since then, and I'm still passionate about this software. If they would have decided to release this software with a bright pink interface with green fuzzy knobs, I would have nodded my head and said, "Well I really prefer the Green interface with Pink fuzzy knobs , but this app still rocks and has everything I originally bought the program for and a few extras added to it, making it even more attractive then when I first became interested....let me dive in a see what else it has"

Here's another users post, which to me sums it up pretty well of how I felt coming in here and reading posts from you, Vitamin_D and Johnmeyer.

"How did Spot's Original Post of "What a Great Night" get Hijacked like this?
You guys have killed the significance of what was truely a great night for All Vegas Users - Even, those who were not in attendance.
Please have some respect and take the technical stuff to another thread.
Some of us worked our butts off for the past year to make that special event possible.
Jay Mitchell"

Was thay me Mr. Rex he was talking about? No, I believe it was you and the rest of the forum bubble breakers that are "troling" in this forum. So, before you go on criticizing my behaviour and pointing that finger at me, you should turn that finger around and start looking at yourself.

You know what I think, when I see all these users like yourself, crying about features they didn't get, and that they can't afford a $200 upgrade price for some well worthy professional tools that other professionals in the field have helped develope? I say good ridance, because obviously you're a HACK in the field, because a professional wouldn't blink twice at $200 pricetag, because he has clients lined up at his door and then he would be thankful for a few extra tools that he got because he was already productive with the ones he had, but now he's got a few more tools on his belt.

Good luck Mr. Hacktilleon

I am using the V5 demo now and will most likely buy the upgrade but I was also hoping to see more advancements for long form editors who require more in depth trim capabilities and media management. I think Avid and PPro are still much better in those areas. The subclips addition is nice though and will solve alot of problems for me.

I have not touched the new composite features so I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do. Realtime hardware is also a consideration for me. For my title needs the titler in Vegas is very weak compared to the Adobe title designer and Boris does not preview to the monitor until you exit out of Boris which I find cumbersome. I really like Vegas but If PPro ever becomes rock solid I will definately consider it because of it's tight integration with other Adobe products and other features mentioned above.

Marc

Rednroll, why are you in a video editing forum?????????????

A better question is why is it always the same 3-4 guys that bitch, bitch, bitch about the same couple of features they want and haven't got. Rednroll is right on the money, they're CRYBABIES.

We have several zippy types in the making that only COMPLAIN. The tone of this forum has for sure gone sour BECAUSE of these same crybabies venting. You'll also notice these same zippy wannabe types only complain like zippy does and don't contribute much if anything.

To endlessly complain about 'missing' features a day or two after a major upgrade in like complaining to your new wife on your honeymoon and brining up you ex girl friends and comparing them to your new wife. Sure not to endear you to her or her family.

A little grumbling is fine. Endlessly bitching especailly over trivial issues isn 't.

Starts to get hard to argue that morose endusers are "wannabe zippys" when they speak so eloquently. "monica" in another thread seems to agree with my/skibumm's sentiments:

Editing is... simple editing, story construction. Editing is that for more than 100 years now. How may times should we repeat the most evident in order to be heard by Sony staff? Let us work in a practical way beyond all the bells and whistles that you offer to us. Why you neglect the storyboard function for 3 consecutive versions? Is that definitive?

- jim

I hope there are always "cry babies" in these forums. If everbody is content with what is given and never pushes Sony for a greater product, we will never push the envelopes of what a NLE. Vegas 5 is a great, amazing product, Bettter then comparable products in the industry(FCP or premire) YES. Do i want more YES! Software development is about satifying the users. So as long as we have people who want more, Sony will be looking at those features and deciding what should go into the next release. Do we want a bunch of engeniers and marketiing people dictate what goes into the next release, or do we want us as the users voice what we think should go in. I think healthy and though out critisism is usefull and needed. It ha\ow we/things get better. That being said, I love Vegas, Ive been with vegas since 3 and havent looked back.

The point is while constructive critisism is useful, constant whining over what Vegas doesn't do is disruptive. There's a web page set up for suggestions as to what future features people would like to see. Anyone that's been around for awhile knows that SonicFoundy and now Sony has been VERY responsive to user requests. Rants are especially annoying within days of a new version being released shifting the focus from what's added to what's missing.

I'm sorry, but I'm getting increasingly bothered by the glass is half empty crowd that no matter what new features are added are never statisifed because THEIR PET FEATURE isn't.

To expect EVERY request EVERYONE wants to be included regardless how limited a need such a feature may be useful to the larger universe of users and see it it all come to be in one release is simply foolish, petty and unprofessional and smacks of sour grapes.

While of course features or 'missing features' can be and should be discussed in the forum, for the SAME FEW to constantly shout their disappointment in our faces, screaming I want this or I'm leaving is childish. Anyone wants to leave... I'm sure there are plenty that would gladly hold the door open. Its just like people in newsgroups needing to announce they 'plonked' someone. For Pete's sake if you are unhappy, and no longer feel Vegas is right for you, fine, try another product. We shouldn't have to endure juvenile posts hinting if Sony don't do this, I'm switching. Which is why I made the zippy reference.

Can't we all just get along?

I'm sorry, but I'm getting increasingly bothered by the glass is half empty crowd that no matter what new features are added are never statisifed because THEIR PET FEATURE isn't.

Billy,

I'm not asking for something that's a pet, or something petty -- media management is essential. It's like what end-actions, subtitles and alternate audio tracks are for DVD authoring -- as they were gripes with DVDA 1, in many ways, they're arguably the essential lack of Vegas. How you fail to see this is beyond me -- or maybe you're only doing short-from editing and will never see its value.

It's not like this is something of a new gripe. Hell, Spot's been complaining about it since version 3. Most people looking in from other apps hold it up as, ultimately, the one thing that keeps Vegas out of the running -- for their money, and their enthusiasm.

Up til now it didn't hold me back, because media bins were introduced in version 4 -- an admittedly sheepish and clumsy 1.0 feature to put a band-aid over a compound fracture. I, like many of us, happily went along for the 4.0 ride because we accepted that enough grumbling and yelling had been done about this lack that it would -- of course, especially given how responsive the SoFo team has been in the past -- be extended and developed in future releases.

Sorry you find our complaints nagging -- but you could always leave the forum or look aside from the threads I'm involved with. I do it all the time when I see your name appear :D

- jim

Vitamin_D,

I realy admire your patience to try to dialogue with some brutal individuals around. Not only we not get an answer for our clear demand, we (you) have to face the harshness of some macho Rednecks and company in these forum.

I have to thank you, for your kind words, but especially given how soaked in testosterone forums like these are, for speaking your mind. You're cool in my book.

- jim

While media managment is not up to par with other programs, I'm still able to edit my different TV series. With Vegas 5 my job will be even easier. Would it be easier with better media managment ? Probably, but it's not there so i can't know.

Media managment gets better with each version, so wait for Vegas 6 and stop acting like spoiled childs.

Edit : I posted long messges about how nesting should work, I really want this feature but I have the patience to wait.

I do projects as complex or more so than anyone and have zero problems with 'media management' which is more properly a function best handled outside not part of any video editing application. I say that having well in access of 100,000 videos, images, effects, etc., all easily found, all easy brought into Vegas within seconds. Maybe I'm just a better "manager" of data. I just don't see the "problem" and still haven't seen anyone really quantify EXACTLY what they think the problem is.

Billy Boy,

I think if you read the threads after the release of 5.0 you will see that most of the comments (at least on my part and some others) were constructive. Certainly you dont expect us to act like we are members of some kind of cult, blindly approving of absolutely everything Sony does. My complain with that jackass Rednroll, is that he has stirred the pot with his nasty posts attacking people in this forum. As I posted earlier, he never appeared in here until 5.0 came out and he admits he knows nothing about video. Then he went back to the audio forum and bragged about how he had fixed things over here. The guy is a child.

"so wait for Vegas 6 and stop acting like spoiled childs"


Just one more year- who cares...-)

Look at how many years adobe users had to wait for a "proper" release of premiere...

I do projects as complex or more so than anyone and have zero problems with 'media management'

Really? More so than anyone? What features have you directed and edited lately? Ever?

Not that you're going to listen to me, but you should be more cautious with absolutes.

- jim

vitamin :
It's not because you're not on IMDB that you don't edit complex projects...

"Look at how many years adobe users had to wait for a "proper" release of premiere"

I thought vegas was better than premiere, are they equals now?


BillyBoy,

I am sure you are a genious...

...a generalization with an important corrollary:

I think it's safe to say that many who do appear on the IMDB -- like Walter Murch -- do more complex projects than Billy.

Where editing is concerned, take a guess who I aspire to be -- Billy or Walter?

Now, do you think Walter edits on Avid/FCP because of their limited media management tools?

- jim

Walter, who Walter? Macho men hate Walters