Garo I have left a message for Kelly.. Sorry 'bout that

Sorry about that, entirely my fault, way too tired last night. It's fixed now.

Mark, having been on the judging panel of several film festivals in my teachings days, I can say that judging such things is very subjective. So, with that in mind...

Is this a "trailer"? If so, it way too long. The pacing was painfully slow.

The cgi landscape in the opening was too crude to be taken seriously. It looked more like the first "rough sketch" for something that was to be refined at some later date. Whereas the abstract image behind it was very well done. The two don't go together.

When I thought it was finally about to begin, it started all over again with the star field and the chrome 3D text. The second was redundant and not nearly as well done as the first--lose the second intro!

The saucer crash needs to be tightened considerably. The reaction from the couple is inconsistant with what's happening. We see no reaction from them to this "fantastic event." At one point the man is looking down instead of up!

How did the man get behind the woman to catch her?

The woman reacts before she looks over the alien, instead of after.

Where did the gun come from? Who is he shooting and why? This was unclear and confusing.

The introduction of the amulet is vague and confusing. What is it? Where did it come from? What's it do? Who wants it? Why?

You show the man putting on the amulet, then some unbelievable cgi devil thingie, then the man puts the amulet in a box. This was confusing.

Why is the man in the forest? What led him there? Why are the devils chasing him?

The scene with the critters chasing the car needs to be tightened a great deal. There was no sense of threat. It struck me as being funny, actually--felt like Monty Python--and I don't think that was your intent.

There was no interaction between the man the devils. They looked like 2D cut-outs, rather than real, threatening creatures.

The crude cgi (opening landscape fly-over, the devil-like creatures, etc.) was very distracting to me. It did not contribute or elevate the piece.

The videography was inconsistent. While some was excellent, the CU of the man and amulet, other was poor, the man in the forest. This was one of the problems in "Girl With a Pearl Earring."

The music wasn't bad, but it didn't always work. In some parts it felt like overkill. It didn't always underscore the content of the shot/scene. There needs to be some variation and contrast.

It appears to me that you're more interested in playing with "neat software" and "special effects" than telling a story (a common trap for today's filmmakers).

Going back to my original question, is this a trailer? If so, it's too long, too loose, and not very compelling. If it's not a trailer, there is no story, no structure, and I have no idea what is happening. Either way, it isn't clear what is happening.

I would recommend you visit the Apple Movie Trailer site and really analyze those trailers--pick them apart. Ask youself, how are their's different from yours? Find one you think comes closest to yours and try to copy it.

As it stands now, I could not recommend this piece's inclusion into a festival. It's still a work in progress.

Mark,
I agree with everything Jay said. In addition to what Jay said I felt it was too dark overall. Way too much contrast and although that is kind of "in" these days personally I find it quite annoying.
The winged creature hanging on the back of the car has to go.
Too many effects overall and quite disjointed.
The audio voiceover, while it didn't clip when I loaded it into Vegas still sounded a bit distorted. Perhaps it is my setup.

I liked your Scrooge bit a lot better.

John

I liked your Scrooge bit a lot better.

John, you're right. I had forgotten about that. That was a very well done piece indeed!

Jay Yes Good Comments and I think you are right about it being Subjective..sCI fI IS not everybodys cup of tea So on that Basis perhaps you are not the best person to Judge..SO It will be interesting to hear Constructive Crits

Although you have made some good comments..

Its actually the start to a Potential Film and although I asked and want to know if its up to Film Festival Standards..This would only be the beginning part to it...so the question was are my standards high enough to complete this for a Film Festival?

I actually done a little Homework with Opening titles because I felt the Island was not that realistic Even though created in Cinema 4DLE ..BUT I did feel it was in keeping with the opening Titles to a lot of Films.. DareDevil Springs to mind...

Jay the saucer was crashing and was losing height as the Man watches he loses sight as we are in the woods there then follows a quiet before the Explosion which whites out the entire scene the next clip shows the guy catching the girl.. This was entirely in keeping with Film Language as the whiting out of the scene acted as a Cutaway..

Asking where the Gun come from when the guy is wearing such a big coat is a silly question Obviously in Films we just have to take some things at face Value...

Jay you obviously did not understand the Plot and you seemed to have lost it ;) so....

The Plot

Really nothing more than a chase sequence and how he (The Guy) comes to be abducted
Alien space battle> saucer crashes on earth in 1864 Alien puts Amulet around Womans neck 18th Century Man shoots alien..We then switch to present day as shown by Onscreen Title.. Amulet taken from box by guy who puts it round his neck There then follows a Communication between Amulet and Alien Workers(Little Devils as you call them)and Guy who then drives to woods Little Devils (Alien Workers) who are using the Amulet as a gateway, Try to take the Amulet from the Guy although he does not realise this is what there after only that he is being chased..I tRIED Very hard to show the Amulet>Connection without being to obvious.. Little Devils (Alien Helpers) get Amulet and bring the Alien back to life That was shot in the woods In the 18th century using the Amulet... Alien returns to ship and Abducts the Guy who had the Amulet....

YOU Dont even need to understand the plot.. Its just a series of devices to show the Chase sEQUENCE. Then THE aBDUCTION ..

I Apologise for the Effects not being Hollywood standard I didnt realise that Film Festivals had advanced this much though My idea was perhaps to ReFilm sequences..I also realise how important Character developement is and is not something that is possible for me at the Moment because of the absence of Professional Actors.. Yes I know I could get Ordinary people and I have tried this... But I think bad acting is even worse than bad effects.. You have to start somewhere..Hopefully if I could build up some kind of Portfolio I may get Talent Interested enough...

I really appreciate the amount of work that went into this (script, actors, equip., on camera/off camera effects, etc, etc), and I wish I had your knowledge of CGI apps and I wish I could pull together resources as well as you did, but with that said... this piece doesn't work.

We all like seeing our name in lights, but the intro went for 2 minutes. Kill both intros and start with the actors in the woods. Cut the length of the woods scene in half (at least). Kill both intro's because they don't give the audience any information, so they are just eye candy effects, which mean nothing, and everyone has seen effects a billion times better then you and I can do with our limited means. So skip the effects.

Effect heavy films don't work on small/no-budgets like we have. Instead, as small indi-filmmakers, our only weapon is a good script and inventive style.

I know how you feel right now, in your mind it's a different movie and we don't see that. Cut the length down and get creative with editing, and divorce yourself from any ideas you think you have about this story. What you end up with is rarely what you thought you actually shot. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can figure out what the real story is.

jeff
(hope that made some sense.... working on no sleep here)

Mark,
I don't know what it is like in Great Britain, but here in the States it is very easy to find very good actors to work for free. In fact it is the norm for independent and student films. Look at the casting notices in Backstage. Or Mandy.com. Or Actors Access. I am sure there is something similar for Great Britain. Actors are amongst the few who will compete against each other to work for nothing. I know, my daughter is in that dreadful business.
Also, If you want to see two films that were picked up at the Sundance Film Festival last year, rent "Open Water" and "Napolean Dynamite". Watch the featurettes after the movie. Some of the original versions are in there.

John

Jay Yes Good Comments and I think you are right about it being Subjective..sCI fI IS not everybodys cup of tea So on that Basis perhaps you are not the best person to Judge..

Sci_Fi is my cup of tea, Mark. So I am as qualified as anyone to judge.

SO It will be interesting to hear Constructive Crits

I thought my "crits" were constructive. I spoke honestly. Constructive criticism does not always mean that the critic has to agree with everything you've done.

Its actually the start to a Potential Film and although I asked and want to know if its up to Film Festival Standards..This would only be the beginning part to it...so the question was are my standards high enough to complete this for a Film Festival?

Did you want an honest answer, or were you just fishing for compliments? If so, you should not have asked, not here.

I actually done a little Homework with Opening titles because I felt the Island was not that realistic Even though created in Cinema 4DLE ..BUT I did feel it was in keeping with the opening Titles to a lot of Films.. DareDevil Springs to mind...

I'm not certain what you're referring to here. But if you were to remove the landscape cgi and adjust the orange light event happening behind it, it would elevate it considerably.

Jay the saucer was crashing and was losing height as the Man watches he loses sight as we are in the woods there then follows a quiet before the Explosion which whites out the entire scene the next clip shows the guy catching the girl.. This was entirely in keeping with Film Language as the whiting out of the scene acted as a Cutaway..

Mark, I fully understand "Film Langauge." Regardless of your explanation, it doesn't work. If you are unwilling to see things as they are and refuse to accept valid criticism, then you will neither grow nor improve.

Asking where the Gun come from when the guy is wearing such a big coat is a silly question Obviously in Films we just have to take some things at face Value...

It may be obvious to you, but it isn't obvious to the rest of us. You are assuing the audience knows everything you know, a major downfall for beginning filmmakers. Instead of being so defensive, step back, be objective, and try to look at your film the way the rest of us would. Only then will you begin to see things as they really are!

Jay you obviously did not understand the Plot and you seemed to have lost it ;) so....

If the audience doesn't understand the plot, it isn't their fault. It's the writer's and the director's fault!

Tell me the plot in one sentence. For exampe: "This story is about an archaeologist who has to find the Lost Ark of the Covenant before the Nazis do." It has a begining, middle, and we want to know the end!

The Plot

That does not constitute a "plot."

Alien space battle>

We were never shown a "battle."

...saucer crashes on earth in 1864 Alien puts Amulet around Womans neck...

We were never shown this.

... 18th Century Man shoots alien..

Again, we were not clearly shown this. It looked to me like he was shooting the woman lying on the ground.

We then switch to present day as shown by Onscreen Title.. Amulet taken from box by guy who puts it round his neck...

How he got it was not shown.

There then follows a Communication between Amulet and Alien Workers(Little Devils as you call them) and Guy who then drives to woods Little Devils (Alien Workers) who are using the Amulet as a gateway,

It was not clear that there was any "communication" there. Clear to you, the creator, but not clear to us, the audience!

Try to take the Amulet from the Guy although he does not realise this is what there after only that he is being chased..I tRIED Very hard to show the Amulet>Connection without being to obvious..

Well, this isn't what you showed in the film. It isn't clear. You show the man putting the amulet in the box and cut to him driving through the woods with the creature watching. According to what you showed us, the amulet is still in the box back in the library!

Little Devils (Alien Helpers) get Amulet and bring the Alien back to life That was shot in the woods In the 18th century using the Amulet...

Again, this isn't clearly stated in a cinematic way that would provide the information you just gave in writing.

Alien returns to ship and Abducts the Guy who had the Amulet....

You said it yourself. "Its just a series of "devices," and that's all it is right now. It is not a plot, it is not a story. So there's nothing to understand, according to what you're saying here!

I Apologise for the Effects not being Hollywood standard I didnt realise that Film Festivals had advanced this much...

You might want to go to sites like Atom Films or iFilms and see what people are doing these days and what's being submitted to film festivals. It'll be a real eye-opener!

... though My idea was perhaps to ReFilm sequences..

Sorry. I don't understand what you're saying.

Now, can you see what has happened here? You have had to explain not only what your film's about, but you've had to explain what happened. That is a clear indicator that the film doesn't work the way you want it to. It should speak for itself and speak clearly so as to be understood without any explanation from the director. If we have to explain what our films are about or what's happened in them, then we've failed as story tellers.

...I also realise how important Character developement is and is not something that is possible for me at the Moment because of the absence of Professional Actors..

Well, that being the case, your film won't be ready for any serious film festivals, then. Character development comes long before the actors do. That comes in the earliest stages of writing!

Yes I know I could get Ordinary people and I have tried this... But I think bad acting is even worse than bad effects..

I would put them on the same level with one another. Both bad acting and bad effects draw attention to themselves. That's not good, period.

You have to start somewhere..Hopefully if I could build up some kind of Portfolio I may get Talent Interested enough...

The one thing that will draw good talent is a good script! If the actors recognize your ability to write/find a good script, they will trust you have the ability to bring it to the screen!

Now, don't take any of this personally. It isn't an attack in any way, shape or form on you. I am offering you the help you asked for in the beginning. I know it's hard. Sometimes it even hurts, but if we're not willing to step back and listen and look and consider with an open mind, then everyone's time is being wasted.

Jeff You Said

>>>We all like seeing our name in lights, but the intro went for 2 minutes. <<<

Am I missin something here The intro was The Voiceover The eye candy was just visuals to go with the Voiceover..The next part showed The Galaxys Then our Galaxy then the Aliens

>>>Kill both intros and start with the actors in the woods.<<<<

What about the Voiceover and establishing shots of the BIG Univese the Aliens at WAR The Alien craft getting hit and crashing ?

>>>Cut the length of the woods scene in half (at least). Kill both intro's because they don't give the audience any information,<<<

The intros > Voice-over...eSTABLISH Universe the size the liklihood of life finally the Aliens Then the Crash and how it came about..

>>>so they are just eye candy effects, which mean nothing, and everyone has seen effects a billion times better then you and I can do with our limited means. So skip the effects.<<<

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITS Anyone ?

Yes thanks for that John Perhaps this may be a n Avenue for me to explore !

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITS Anyone ?

Mark, you're being given constructive criticism, you're simply refusing to acknowledge it.

Thats funny Jay you spend all that Time and effort trying to Make me look incompetant.." Well" it would be funny if it wasnt so Sad.. Do you know I actually started to like you because at one time you could sometimes be Helfull ..NOW Your just a Contributer to taking the respect this forum once had down to a new Low Level IN the Gutter...

"Any Opinions/Constructive Crits on this will be gratefully recieved.. "

I don't think you're ready for them.
From a third person reading the critics... they seem very fair.
Maybe if you explained what film festival you're talking about. Sundance level, or more local oriented?

I think you need to understand what was said. You can't have it so that you need to explain to the audience what's going on. Why this lasts so long, why the gun came out of nowhere, etc.
Can you imagine Lucas yelling out from the back of the theater what's taking place at such and such a time. OK, HERE DARTH VADER IS QUESTIONING HIS DEDICATION TO THE EMPEROR, VERSUS HIS LOVE FOR HIS SON.
We need to know what's going, all on our own.

Mario

Mark, I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I am not trying to make you, or anyone else for that matter, look incompetent. I was being honest with you, as honest as I know to be.

What have I said that has taken this into the gutter?

You are taking this way too personal - from my point of view. This is the only kind of critique you can grow and learn from.

I wrote a book that I thought was soooo fabulous because all my friends were telling me how great it was. Only much later did I realize they were just being kind and if I ever wanted to get it published I would have to rewrite according to theTRUE critique I got from someone who wanted to actually help me and see me succeed, not just spare my feelings.

You should consider yourself very fortunate that Jay spent so much of his time to try and help you, but I don;t think it seems likely to happen judging from your reaction.

OOPS Perhaps you should watch the Film instead of just wading in and siding with Jay and if you have watched the Film perhaps you would care to comment...Then you too can legitamately agree with the Pack..

Mario did you watch the Film ?

You said any OPINIONS etc, would be gratefully received - that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

I TRIED to watch you video but it would not download (after 10 minutes of waiting) and I have a very fast connection speed. Anyway, I was not commenting on your film - just the part about your reaction to the critiques.

I find that it's just as hard to give honest critiques as it is to receive them. I put months of work into my book and at first I reacted as you did to the one honest review that I got. Ouch, it hurt and I thought this person didn't know what he was talking about since he had not even read the entire book - book now I can see that he didn't have to. It all made sense after I analyzed each point he made. I hope the same light comes on for you.

Will try to view your vid again, time permitting, and let you know what I think about it - but what if I agree with some of the negative comments? I suppose I might as well keep them to myself then, right?
lili

You Know Jay I have certain expectations from you and you usually deliver However On your Critisms of My Film I am Prepared to accept that it is not something you Like and will leave it there.. For my part I apologise if I have Misunderstood your intentions this time..It is as you say Subjective..

Thats all I ask lilli is Fair Play

Mark, I'm not your enemy. No one is taking sides, for crying out loud. This is not a Jay versus Mark thing. We're here to help one another, or so I thought. That's all we're trying to do. You asked for help and when it was given, your threw back in our faces!

Please, tell us clearly and concisely what it is you want from us? Tell us what "constructive criticism" means to you so we'll all be singing from the same page.