dude, you must be the best there ever was! dont need nobody nohow!  Probably dont need clients either!

>>>>If you think a color scene looks better before a colorist gets hold of it, then you have not seen the dailies of major films. They are shot very flat and raw<<<<

Yes they are. That is the way they do it. All I'm saying is that is not necessatily the only way to do it. And there is a big difference between a $200,000,000 Hollywood movie and a short film or a documentary and the original post was about that. You absolutely do not need a colorist for the latter two. Just use the right camera, make sure you get your ligting right and you will save yourself a lot of time not having to fix things later.

>>>>dude, you must be the best there ever was! dont need nobody nohow!  Probably dont need clients either!<<<

You are absolutely right. I have had no clients since about 2007. Don't need them. make my own stuff when I feel like it and do it the way I want to do it and make money from ads.

deusx - would be interested to see some of your work, it'll even help add to your income from ads ;-)

Nice to see the different perspectives weighing in. I don't think there are any real conflicts here if one takes to heart what JR is saying: i.e., if it's collaborative you don't get to choose, most often, and idustry standards are such for good reason, reasons that go way beyond personal preference or familiarity.  I hope Vegas can one day bridge at least some of those gaps, but it is not wrong to say that for the indie guy working solo or with just a few already on the Vegas train, it is a marvelous Swiss army knife.  Will it ever be "more than that" as far as well accepted standard? Probably not, and so I go with the folks here who say, wisely, learn as many as you can.  I need After Effects AND Resolve to do what I need, and I am a musician who knows audio engineering and dabbles in video, but Vegas certainly has limitations, though I'd never want to give it up because of it's straight forward approach.  I tried Premier, and have it, I can't stand it, so I would definitely hope for a more full on Vegas product, and let's see. 

"Yes they are. That is the way they do it. All I'm saying is that is not necessatily the only way to do it."

No, you said they were bullshit jobs. Apparently they are not necessary to you, but that does not make them any less important to the industry.

And what is interesting is that about 1% of the 300 million TV sets in the USA are set up correctly to view what the colorists have done. The rest just don't care if there are green faces or orange grass.

JJK

And what is interesting is that about 1% of the 300 million TV sets in the USA are set up correctly to view what the colorists have done. The rest just don't care if there are green faces or orange grass.

That includes audio. The usual build in TV speakers will never reproduce what the audio engineer indented it to be and how many have a well setup home theater.

And what is interesting is that about 1% of the 300 million TV sets in the USA are set up correctly to view what the colorists have done. The rest just don't care if there are green faces or orange grass.

JJK

They use calibrated monitors so what they are doing looks the same to everyone in the prodution chain.  They don't expect or presume that the viewing public uses calibrated monitors.  The colorist sets the mood and tone for the movie.  Thats why the Downton Abbey looks different than the Big Bang Theory which looks different than any National Georgaphic movie about bugs.  And yes, if some people look at the before and after colorist picture they may prefer the before, but that's because they are not watching the movie to capture the mood.  Just like a costumer make the film look like the 30' 50's or 90's the colorist is doing a similiar thing. 

"Nothing against audio guys they are usually necessary, although it is not difficult for a "video" guy to learn that part."

Wow, what an astonishingly ignorant thing to say.

@ jc - unfortunately given you have either trump or clinton ignorance seems to be becoming more commonplace than usual ;-)

no offence intended

We have no way of knowing what the nature of the project is, other than that it is a short film.  We don't know how much collaboration, etc. Were I in that situation, being "grilled" like that, I would have simply asked, "What is it that you think FCP can do that Vegas cannot." Chances are good the "expert" won't have a response, because they, in all likelihood, never tried Vegas.

Additionally, you were hired, based on what you've already produced in Vegas, so you needn't feel too defensive about things. I do understand how the situation would feel uncomfortable.

How many teamsters does it take to change a light bulb? Six! YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT?!!

But seriously, I can understand the one man shop mentality as it applies to me. However, a man has to know his limitations. I know I can get acceptable results but I also know that someone that specializes in color correction or audio will be able to do it much better and faster than I could. Just like I can tape and bed drywall or do auto body repair but my results will not be as good as someone that has specifically done it for years, By doing it myself it may actually cost me more $$$ in the long run.

i'm an indie so a jack of all trades and probably master of none ;-)

@Leslie: Well we know where your head is. 

The conversation has certainly veered off topic....from a discussion on being an apologist for Vegas Pro usage to the value of colorists and audio guys. A look at the new Vegas magazine https://magazine.vegascreativesoftware.com/   provided a few examples of significant productions being done in Vegas. That kind of information would certainly provide ammunition should the question of why you (we) use Vegas Pro, instead of some other NLE. Quite awhile back on the forum, I asked the question of which NLEs were being used for major productions, especially those produced by Sony Pictures. (Hey...they were the mother ship.) My question was rather dismissed, out of hand. One of my reasons for asking the question was the same type of "interrogation" that the original poster of this discussion had endured.

A look at the new Vegas magazine provided a few examples of significant productions being done in Vegas. That kind of information would certainly provide ammunition should the question of why you (we) use Vegas Pro, instead of some other NLE.

You shouldn't need any ammunition. You use Vegas Pro because it fits your workflow. That should be enough of an answer for anyone. Vegas Pro will never be one of the big 3 so why bother trying to defend it? It's not a major player and this thread discusses why. It's not targeted at that market. 

If it's good enough for you, be happy with your decision.

~jr

@jr - well said!

@grazie - always have to put my sunglasses on first though....

"You shouldn't need any ammunition. You use Vegas Pro because it fits your workflow. That should be enough of an answer for anyone. ........ If it's good enough for you, be happy with your decision."

In a perfect world, I would definitely agree with you JR. The operative words in your response are "shouldn't" and "should." Unfortunately, I do not live in a perfect world. To quote Scarlett, too often, I depend on "the kindness of strangers." If I only worked for myself, I would never have to explain/defend my choice in NLEs. It's not usually the person who hires me that raises the question; it's more often some peripheral person, sniping at the edges.

It's not usually the person who hires me that raises the question; it's more often some peripheral person, sniping at the edges.

...and you feel compelled to answer this peripheral person why? You only need to answer to the person who hired you. For all others, "because if fits the way I work" is indisputable because they don't work the same way that you do so you are not saying it's the best tool for everyone, or it's the best tool for them... just it's the best tool for YOU.

If you need to collaborate, then you should use whatever tool the other collaborators are using. If you can work on your own, then you should use the tool that makes you the most productive. You really don't need to justify that to anyone. 

I agree that you would have to justify if you refuse to use the tools that other collaborators are using. I will give you that. But that's a loosing battle. Just use whatever tool they use and get on with your work or don't take the job. In other words if the jobs is for an FCP editor, don't show up and expect to convince them you are going to use Vegas Pro. You're not going to win that one.

If the job allows everyone to use their own tool of choice and some questions the tool you are using, ask that person why they chose to wear those shoes? (hint: same reason you use Vegas Pro... personal preference)  ;-)

~jr

Hi JR,

I agree with you on your points made. In answer to your question  "...and you feel compelled to answer this peripheral person why?" Because leaving it unanswered, in front of my client, plants the seeds of doubt in the client's mind.

Something I learned in my many years of shooting stills, try NEVER to present your finished product to a group of people. There will always be one person who will find some minor thing to complain about. Not to be outdone in the presence of the boss, the others in the group will try to one-up the original commentor. Soon they're tearing it apart like wolves on a carcass.

The same thing I feel is true when someone questions my choice on NLE. Unless answered, others will pile on, and the seeds of doubt has been sown. It's hard to dig out after that.

Hi JR,

Something I learned in my many years of shooting stills, try NEVER to present your finished product to a group of people. There will always be one person who will find some minor thing to complain about. Not to be outdone in the presence of the boss, the others in the group will try to one-up the original commentor. Soon they're tearing it apart like wolves on a carcass.

 

You got that right !!!

Wow! This has drifted a bit OT. Surely the response should have been, "...beciuase it allows me to do everything I need to do efficiently and produces excellent results"