Interesting discovery re: RAM (not preview)

megabit wrote on 11/20/2012, 9:10 AM
As you might have noticed, guys - I'm one of those generally happy with the stability and performance of Vegas Pro 11 and 12 (on both my systems in the listing). However - due to most my project being multi-cam music videos, very demanding from the sync point of view - I've always been struggling to get MC track playback as fast as only possible. Here are my findings:

- with multi-camera view on the Preview Monitor and the currently active take full screen on the secondary (Windows) monitor, the RAM Preview Buffer size must be set to zero for framerates sufficient for precise cutting

- the Memory Vegas needs in the Internal Preferences only defaults to 1024 MB for x64 Vegas version; I went all the way and increased that to 16384 MB - and voila! - the playback framerate of my 11-camera track is now the full 25 fps ! This is with V12 proxies, and @Preview/Half - but still, a nice progress... Interestingly, the total RAM consumed by Vegas as per the Task Manager increased only slightly, so the 16 GB is probably an overkill - but looks like the1024 MB is definitely not enough.

Try that for yourself, and comment, please :)

Piotr

AMD TR 2990WX CPU | MSI X399 CARBON AC | 64GB RAM@XMP2933  | 2x RTX 2080Ti GPU | 4x 3TB WD Black RAID0 media drive | 3x 1TB NVMe RAID0 cache drive | SSD SATA system drive | AX1600i PSU | Decklink 12G Extreme | Samsung UHD reference monitor (calibrated)

Comments

Guy S. wrote on 11/20/2012, 9:59 AM
Thanks for posting your findings! I found that V12 was set to 1024 by default; I changed it to 2048.

Just to clarify, the tab labeled "Internal" is normally hidden. To see it hold down the Shift key while selecting Options>Preferences from the menu bar.

This tab is hidden for a reason, so be careful. To quickly find the setting type "Memory" into the search box at the bottom of the window.

UPDATE: No stability issues and timeline playback feels slightly improved.
Andy_L wrote on 11/20/2012, 9:20 PM
this can't be right...maybe this is just a minimum setting, and doesn't restrict the app from using more memory as needed. Otherwise...???
LV studio wrote on 11/20/2012, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the "tab" info. I doubled the default mem settings to 768 and 2048. So far NBTPro 2 has not crashed. I'm feeling pretty good about this. :)
NickHope wrote on 11/20/2012, 11:17 PM
Here is how that setting looks in Vegas 8.0c 32-bit.



And here is how it looks in 10.0e 32-bit.

set wrote on 11/20/2012, 11:21 PM
So, this is it.....
Thanks for the Discovery! - Hope this settings is also the answers for WHOLE BUGS we all having.
Showing only prefs containing 'Memory' found:

Memory needed by Vegas (MB) : 384
Memory needed by Vegas 64-bit (MB) : 2048 (def:1024)

I found Autocalculate Video Memory (64-bit) : FALSE (but default is TRUE)
Any difference?

OpenCL Memory Size Filter : 384 (def:384)
NickHope wrote on 11/20/2012, 11:30 PM
I have never touched the "Autocalculate Video Memory" setting. So in my case the default was FALSE.

Edit: Also...
wilvan wrote on 11/25/2012, 2:11 PM
Now this is indeed the best discovery , very much appreciated.

I always wondered why vegas 64 bit was so scared of using RAM and total system RAM never exceeding the 32 bit 4 Gig limit. ( whilst after effects using happily the available more than 40 Gigs RAM ) .

I played with these figures and finally could have vegas use ( while editing ) what is available ( or small but bigger part of the available 48 GB RAM , which vegas also limits to 32 GB in another setting in same pref ).

Am gonna play some more with these settings after having finished present work.

Great discovery . ( actually , this setting should not at all be hidden unless things are not yet really ready and steady for using more than one ( 1 ) GB of RAM )

Sony  PXW-FS7K and 2 x Sony PXW-Z280  ( optimised as per Doug Jensen Master Classes and Alister Chapman advices )
2 x HP Z840 workstations , each as follows : WIN10 pro x 64 , 2 x 10 core Xeon E5-2687W V3 at 3.5 GHz , 256 GB reg ECC RAM , HP nvidia quadro RTX A5000 , 3 x samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB M.2 2280 PCIe 3.0 x4  , 3 x SSD 1TB samsung 860 pro , 3 x 3TB WD3003FZEX.
SONY Vegas Pro 13 build 453  ( user since version 4 ) , SONY DVDarch , SONY SoundForge(s) , SONY Acid Pro(s) , SONY Cinescore ( each year buying upgrades for all of them since vegas pro 4 )
(MAGIX) Vegas pro 14 ( bought it as a kind of support but never installed it )
SONY CATALYST browse 
Adobe Photoshop  CC 2018
Adobe After Effects CC 2018 & Adobe Media Encoder CC 2018
Avid Media Composer 2022.xx ( started with the FREE Avid Media Composer First in 2019 )
Dedicated solely editing systems , fully optimized , windows 10 pro x 64 
( win10 pro operating systems , all most silly garbage and kid's stuff of microsoft entirely removed , never update win 10 unless required for editing purposes or ( maybe ) after a while when updates have proven to be reliable and no needless microsoft kid's stuff is added in the updates )

bill-kranz wrote on 11/25/2012, 2:55 PM
Hi - I also saw a JPEG screenshot quality setting set for "95" under 8.0c. Would upping that make a difference? What if you set it for 2,000 and your whole system launches out the window?

Thanks for uncovering this information!

Bill
TheHappyFriar wrote on 11/25/2012, 8:00 PM
Could be this is the memory Vegas reserves for itself and doesn't let anything else use that memory. So if you up it you're allowing less ram for other programs.
set wrote on 11/25/2012, 8:07 PM
Sometimes I had crash, frozen screen when doing 'UNDO', but after I raised memory needed to 2048, as far as I experience, had no issues.

Multicam works without crashes. Previously crash after a minute.

(12 build 394)
wilvan wrote on 11/27/2012, 12:04 AM
@TheHappyFriar :

Could be , but only while running vegas pro and what kind of other programs would one be running while ( semi-pro or pro ) editing . ( soundforge maybe but that one does not require much RAM ) .

The adobe also asks in preference how much memory you would like to leave for other programs ( is opposite question since they assume an editor concentrating at what they are editing and not to other programs ). You can even tell how much RAM per processor you want it to run .
And that helps MUCH more then the openGL stuff , even in after effects.
( and cheaper since RAM nowadays is priced very competitive )

PS :
I wonder also why the max RAM ( in same internal pref ) is limited to maximum 32 GB , real workstations can have up to 192 GB of RAM.
I am having 48 GB and could easily assign 32 GB and still have plenty left for the OS and other programs while editing.
So sony could really optimise this thing here.



Sony  PXW-FS7K and 2 x Sony PXW-Z280  ( optimised as per Doug Jensen Master Classes and Alister Chapman advices )
2 x HP Z840 workstations , each as follows : WIN10 pro x 64 , 2 x 10 core Xeon E5-2687W V3 at 3.5 GHz , 256 GB reg ECC RAM , HP nvidia quadro RTX A5000 , 3 x samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB M.2 2280 PCIe 3.0 x4  , 3 x SSD 1TB samsung 860 pro , 3 x 3TB WD3003FZEX.
SONY Vegas Pro 13 build 453  ( user since version 4 ) , SONY DVDarch , SONY SoundForge(s) , SONY Acid Pro(s) , SONY Cinescore ( each year buying upgrades for all of them since vegas pro 4 )
(MAGIX) Vegas pro 14 ( bought it as a kind of support but never installed it )
SONY CATALYST browse 
Adobe Photoshop  CC 2018
Adobe After Effects CC 2018 & Adobe Media Encoder CC 2018
Avid Media Composer 2022.xx ( started with the FREE Avid Media Composer First in 2019 )
Dedicated solely editing systems , fully optimized , windows 10 pro x 64 
( win10 pro operating systems , all most silly garbage and kid's stuff of microsoft entirely removed , never update win 10 unless required for editing purposes or ( maybe ) after a while when updates have proven to be reliable and no needless microsoft kid's stuff is added in the updates )

TheHappyFriar wrote on 11/27/2012, 6:44 AM
I'll give this a test my my XP 32 Vegas 10 & see how it works with other programs.

In a normal editing session, I'll have a copy of Vegas open & Gimp. If I'm doing motion tracking I'll have Vegas, Blender & Syntheyes. I might even have OpenOffice open with a script/outline. Definitely a copy of FireFox.
Mindmatter wrote on 11/27/2012, 7:29 AM
are there any findings on the " autocalculate video memory (64bit) " being set to FALSE by default?

AMD Ryzen 9 5900X, 12x 3.7 GHz
32 GB DDR4-3200 MHz (2x16GB), Dual-Channel
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070, 8GB GDDR6, HDMI, DP, studio drivers
ASUS PRIME B550M-K, AMD B550, AM4, mATX
7.1 (8-chanel) Surround-Sound, Digital Audio, onboard
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250GB, NVMe M.2 PCIe x4 SSD
be quiet! System Power 9 700W CM, 80+ Bronze, modular
2x WD red 6TB
2x Samsung 2TB SSD

Neil Wilkes wrote on 11/27/2012, 9:52 AM
This is all very interesting.
CHecking this in the Internal Prefs for V12 (x64) and I am seeing some confusing stuff:
1 - There is a setting for RAM Preview limit 32-bit operation. This is 1024Mb
2 - There is another RAM Preview limit for 64-bit, set to 32,768 (my installed memory)
Do these need adjusting, and what should it be set to?

I found the other settings mentioned, and would like to thank you for this information.
Paul Masters wrote on 11/27/2012, 11:45 AM
Are the 'internal' settings saved with an update or do they revert to the 'factory' settings?

I gather that they revert with a new version ... but may be not as some of the customization appears to stay, especially when the older version was not removed.

Thanks.

Paul Masters
rmack350 wrote on 11/27/2012, 12:06 PM
HappyFriar's list of applications is much more in line with our experience when editing. We usually need scripts and reference documents open, along with supporting apps like Photoshop or some sort of image viewer like Bridge (yuck!) or FastStone Viewer. And since our business largely runs on email we'd have an email client open, and a web browser.

I'm not sure what the setting for RAM means but I assume it's a floor, not a ceiling, but it could be working space

Keep in mind that memory is virtualized in Windows. Just because an application is requesting 2GB of virtual address space doesn't mean it's using 2GB of RAM. You could have 8 applications requesting a gig of memory each even though you just have 4 GB of RAM. And even though those apps request a certain amount of space, they might not be filling it.

I think the next question to ask after raising the memory setting is whether you can eventually load up Vegas to the point where your problems return?

Rob
GenJerDan wrote on 11/27/2012, 9:20 PM
And this fixed my can't-render-AVI-with-GPU problem. :^)
DavidPJ wrote on 11/28/2012, 7:08 PM
Thanks megabit! Like another post, I was having frequent crashes with Vegas 12 Build 394 when using the Undo button. I changed the memory from 1024 to 2048 but I haven't had the opportunity to test it for a length of time. Hope it helps.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 11/28/2012, 8:50 PM
I loaded up a ram intensive project in Vegas 10. I had my processes list open while Vegas played the TL. With the default 384mb value Vegas used ~550mb. With the 1gb value Vegas still used 550mb.

Next test is to render that project. It would crash 32-bit Vegas with a memory error if I rendered to anything but AVI.
wilvan wrote on 11/29/2012, 12:42 AM
@TheHappyFriar

I would not touch these settings when still running a 32 bit operating system and
according 32 bit version of vegas pro.




Sony  PXW-FS7K and 2 x Sony PXW-Z280  ( optimised as per Doug Jensen Master Classes and Alister Chapman advices )
2 x HP Z840 workstations , each as follows : WIN10 pro x 64 , 2 x 10 core Xeon E5-2687W V3 at 3.5 GHz , 256 GB reg ECC RAM , HP nvidia quadro RTX A5000 , 3 x samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB M.2 2280 PCIe 3.0 x4  , 3 x SSD 1TB samsung 860 pro , 3 x 3TB WD3003FZEX.
SONY Vegas Pro 13 build 453  ( user since version 4 ) , SONY DVDarch , SONY SoundForge(s) , SONY Acid Pro(s) , SONY Cinescore ( each year buying upgrades for all of them since vegas pro 4 )
(MAGIX) Vegas pro 14 ( bought it as a kind of support but never installed it )
SONY CATALYST browse 
Adobe Photoshop  CC 2018
Adobe After Effects CC 2018 & Adobe Media Encoder CC 2018
Avid Media Composer 2022.xx ( started with the FREE Avid Media Composer First in 2019 )
Dedicated solely editing systems , fully optimized , windows 10 pro x 64 
( win10 pro operating systems , all most silly garbage and kid's stuff of microsoft entirely removed , never update win 10 unless required for editing purposes or ( maybe ) after a while when updates have proven to be reliable and no needless microsoft kid's stuff is added in the updates )

TheHappyFriar wrote on 11/29/2012, 6:54 AM
Why not? Worst that will happen is I'll crash something, best is it'll work. Won't know until it's tested. If that value is in 32-bit Vegas then there's a reason, same reason for the value in 64-bit Vegas.
DavidPJ wrote on 11/29/2012, 9:45 AM
After changing the memory to 2048 last night I tried a tried a number of undo operations . Vegas 12 didn't crash, not even once. Before I changed the setting Vegas would crash at least 50% of the time on an undo.
ritsmer wrote on 11/29/2012, 10:23 AM
Some VERY interesting observations in this thread...

...would ForumAdmin please add some educated comments, please? -
it could really help many people getting their Vegas installations up and running as stable as they are intended to be.
Paul Fierlinger wrote on 11/29/2012, 10:59 AM
To the question, What else can you be running at the same time as Vegas? I run TVPaint at all times in tandem with Vegas 12, which has similar timelines including multiple video and audio layers in the dozens and a Preview window et all, and can be just as much a memory hog as Vegas. TVP never crashes though, but with 1080p 2881 x 1621 x 24fps files and larger, the playback rate can suffer at times.

I too changed the Vegas memory to 2048 and can report that this has no ill effect on either TVP or Vegas. Both programs are 64 bit and I use an nVidia Quadro 420 NVS card and have just 8GB RAM in my computer.

The first noticeable difference for me in Vegas is that my external Preview monitor plays smoother than pre memory change.