MagicYUV codec coming on strong for 4K

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/22/2015, 11:44 AM

"What he's saying is that Vegas won't support any 10-bit VFW codecs except Sony YUV. This is bad news :(

Does anyone know if Cineform's 10-bit VFW codec (in GoPro Studio Premium) can be rendered to in Vegas? I don't own it but I could download the trial to test."

We have done some tests about the codec questions recently in our German forums. The task was to look for a workflow how it is possible to edit 10bit footage (coming from the Atomos Shogun UHD ProRes 422 files) in Vegas.

First of all - the ProRes 422 10bit files are decoded in Vegas as 8bit only. Second, with more then 20-25 of these files Vegas crashes.

Using TMPGenc as a batch converter to Cineform, all indications that we have today show that Cineform will be decoded as 10bit also in Vegas. That is due to the reason that SCS has implemented native in Vegas. Other famous codecs like the Canopus HQX will not be decoded in Vegas as 10bit but as 8bit only.

I see no reason why the Magic YUV codec should be decoded in Vegas as 10bit - it will be as 8bit only. But to use Cineform is a great choice for a Vegas workflow, since the Codec will be installed in Vegas with the free-of-charge version of GoPro Studio. Also TMPGenc is able to decode ProRes files from the Shogun in 10bit, and encode it as 10bit Cineform. And - the playback capabilities in Vegas are great for UHD-Cineform files.

So Cineform is a codec that can be used in Vegas for a 10bit workflow really. Take care with other codecs for a 10bit workflow in Vegas - you should be sure that they are decoded with 10bit really.

videoITguy wrote on 3/22/2015, 1:22 PM

MagicYUV in its free version is designed and held at 8bit - but is good enough for anything in workflow you want to do in VegasPro. Including using 10bit sources.

What is important to the MagicYUV developer is holding to the purse strings to his 10bit development kit. If someone (an entity mind-you) wants to pursue this for work in SDK form for VegasPro - then pay the man.

As far as general notion of Cineform and other 10 bit codecs (like native Sony YUV) they have all been proven to be useful in VegasPro workflows for many years - countless posts in this forum and others expand on that.

However, please note achieving 10bit review in VegasPro is a bit more complex and certainly more problematic than 99% of the customer base is able to deal with.

For all intensive purposes SONY YUV 10bit and Magic YUV 8bit are going to achieve in practicality any usage within VegasPro. Cineform is also an excellent codec for its longevity and transport efficiency to other systems workflow, but to suggest that its 10bit is the ultimate in VegasPro is quite mis-leading. Note that GoPro is likely to leave this codec hamstrung at some point.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/23/2015, 12:29 PM

You are wrong if you think that a codec that is interpretated as 8bit only is able to maintain a 10bit workflow. Never ever this is true.

True, a 10bit workflow is not easy in Vegas. But if you know enough about both Vegas and codecs that can deliver that in Vegas, it is possible. Cineform can be used similar to XAVC, for example. Other codecs like this Magic codec or ProRes cannot be used for that.

If one stays in the 8bit world that may not matter. But the future with UHD will be 10bit and rec 2020.

videoITguy wrote on 3/23/2015, 3:26 PM

we'll see over time whether your prediction holds true. As for the real world - 10bit workflow is certainly possible from source to render in VegasPro timeline with limited amounts of VideoFX/transistions applied in VegasPro - but it is NOT practical. The constraints on not being able to use all plug-in manipulation, and no way to monitor the signal path begs the question. You are better off to understand and accept - then use Magic YUV to its best ability.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 3/24/2015, 12:13 PM

I am not talking so much about predictions, I am talking about facts we have today.

Fact is, that Vegas is not able to decode some major codecs that are used today in 10bit. For example ProRes ist decoded as 8bit only in Vegas. The Canopus HQX is decoded as 8bit only in Vegas. Magix YUV seems to be decoded as 8bit in Vegas only, and I think it will not be better for 10bit DNxHR too.

But fact is, that a 10bit workflow is possible in Vegas with certrain codecs today. XAVC for example is available today.

And fact is also that Vegas has incorporated the 32bit floating point modus for that purpose - similar to After Effects. That is a great modus, but requires a lot of calculation power. Not so great, but we can use the 8bit modus to edit 10bit footage, and can switch to 32bit floating point modus for rendering.

And another fact is that the newest UHD-TVs will deliver more and more 10bit, because that is forseen in the standard. True, this are high end and high priced TVs today - it it will take a while to come up with a higher market penetration. But that is true for UHD and 4K generally.

And fact is that one can work in 10bit today - with XAVC cameras from Sony but also with combinations like the GH4 and the Atomos Shogun. So I use that today and can confirm at all that this is practical for sure. It works.

Marco. wrote on 3/24/2015, 2:42 PM

"I think it will not be better for 10bit DNxHR too.“

At least no 10 bit decoding of DNxHD available for Vegas Pro yet. Just like you said – No external codec works in 10 bit mode in Vegas Pro right now.

videoITguy wrote on 9/2/2015, 7:09 AM

Important update for Vegas users of Magic YUV

Version 1.2 - Released: 2015.08.25.

NickHope wrote on 9/8/2015, 8:59 AM

Thanks for the heads up videoITguy. change log. I will definitely be paying $ for this. Such a great codec that I get loads of use from.

NickHope wrote on 10/13/2016, 10:34 PM

MagicYUV has been updated to version 1.2 rev 1. It's available from https://gumroad.com/l/kxciS# It still works and is still lossless in Vegas. Quote from their email:

MagicYUV Lossless video codec update! Version 1.2-rev1 for Windows has been released. It provides a workaround for inefficient AVI writing by certain apps (most notably Dxtory, the relevant forum topic is here: http://forum.exkode.com/index.php?topic=2165 ), so you should see better disk performance there. It also has some minor tweaks which should help with smart-rendering in editor programs. The release is yours for free! P.S.: If you experience any bugs, crashes make sure to send me a bugreport. Thanks!

Smart-rendering was already working for me in Vegas with the previous version.

NickHope wrote on 10/21/2016, 6:37 AM

There's another new update at the same address as in my previous comment. From their email:

MagicYUV Lossless video codec update! Version 1.2-rev2 for Windows has been released. It is a bugfix release which fixes a crash in rare circumstances which was caused by the tray icon. It appeared while using the codec with Adobe Premiere in it's Save As dialog with MagicYUV-encoded files in the folder, during thumbnail generation (though it could have affected other programs as well). Thanks to Bill Mountney for reporting and helping to track down the issue. The release is yours for free! P.S.: If you experience any bugs, crashes make sure to send me a bugreport. Thanks!

megabit wrote on 10/21/2016, 7:15 AM

Nick,

I'd love to give that codec a try, but cannot log into the address in your link - how can I get it? TIA

Piotr

Ecquillii wrote on 10/21/2016, 9:02 AM

magicyuv.com/download, click on Gumroad.

NickHope wrote on 10/21/2016, 9:33 AM

Oops. That must have been my personal link. Have updated the link in previous post.

NickHope wrote on 12/14/2016, 4:21 AM

Big overhaul today on https://www.magicyuv.com . MagicYUV 2.0.0rc1 is out and he's also released a 10/12/14 bit version with a "limited time" offer. I got sent a link to download the 8-bit version of 2.0.0rc1 (because of a previous donation for release 1) so I'll test it out. I have no need for more than 8-bit at the moment.

wwjd wrote on 12/14/2016, 10:15 AM

is the 10/12/14 not free?

NickHope wrote on 12/14/2016, 10:41 AM

is the 10/12/14 not free?

No, he's asking $14 for the 10/12/14 version at the moment. I appear to have been given a full licence for it for having previously sent a donation for version 1.

There are more settings now than there used to be, even in 8-bit. Old templates don't work as it defaults to the decoder only in the codec settings so they need updating.

BruceUSA wrote on 12/14/2016, 11:43 AM

is the 10/12/14 not free?

No, he's asking $14 for the 10/12/14 version at the moment. I appear to have been given a full licence for it for having previously sent a donation for version 1.

There are more settings now than there used to be, even in 8-bit. Old templates don't work as it defaults to the decoder only in the codec settings so they need updating.

I just paid $14 for the ultimate codec, installed and import a sample fooatge into the timeline and doing a rendering test.1080P 10 bit YUV 4.2.2 and I am getting eror, The selected codec does not support the current render settings. I thought this ultimate codec support 10/12/14? whats up with this?

Marco. wrote on 12/14/2016, 12:05 PM

Be aware Vegas couldn't render its 10 bit character anyway.

BruceUSA wrote on 12/14/2016, 1:03 PM

Just want to share my conatact with Magic YUV. he offered a refund at my wish but I am going to keep because it is a very good high quality codec at 8 bit 4.2.2. here is the email from Magic YUV to me.

Hi there,

Sorry for the inconvenience, unfortunately to my knowledge Vegas does not
support 10bit+ transfer towards generic codecs like MagicYUV, only it's built-in
ones, that are hard-coded into the application itself. This is a limitation of
Vegas.

As the website has just been relaunched, information about the limitations
of various applications - the ones we're aware of - is not up yet.

For this reason, it is mentioned on the product purchase sheet that 10bit+
is not for everyone, and to be sure to get the trial first and test with that to
see if it works. We also added this notice to the main page now.

It would be the best if you could notify Vegas about the issue, the more
people make them aware of it, the more likely they will implement the proper
support to transfer 10bit+ data towards codecs.

In any case, we have a no questions asked refund policy, so if you would
like, we can refund you instantly.

Best regards,

Balázs Oroszi

MagicYUV author

NormanPCN wrote on 12/14/2016, 1:12 PM

I thought this ultimate codec support 10/12/14? whats up with this?

Video for Windows only supports 8-bit. Vegas is accessing MagicYUV via Video for Windows when in AVI.

Note that the Sony YUV 10-bit "codec" listed in the Vegas Video for Windows codec list is actually a bypass of VfW to get the 10-bit function.

Marco. wrote on 12/14/2016, 1:18 PM

In Vegas Pro the only external AVI codec capable of 10 bit output is CineForm. This is an issue known for a longer time but unfortunately still not documented.

NormanPCN wrote on 12/14/2016, 3:44 PM

Cineform AVI in Vegas also bypasses Video for Windows. Vegas uses the Cineform SDK for native access.

Kinvermark wrote on 12/14/2016, 4:46 PM

As there is no 10 bit timeline setting, is it correct to assume you need to set your timeline to 32 bit to get 10 bit output to cineform?

Marco. wrote on 12/14/2016, 4:48 PM

From what I tested: Yes.