‘Mercalli-Glitches’ in Vp14 and Vp15 with UHD output

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 5:41 AM

Hello together,
since a couple of weeks I’m having a very nasty problem with ‘Mercalli-Glitches’, where the analyze request comes up for just one frame in the UHDp30 and UHDp50 rendered output:

It seems to happen only on larger project and the one, I’m working on is about 70 minutes and it is not easy to locate these error. Even worse, they always come up on different places. There is no indication in the timeline, that these clips needs an analyze. I thought, it could be related to the short 2 – 4 frame fades I use at hard cuts. But another member of this forum got the same problem with hard cuts rendering to UHDp50. Here is an example of his output

that he also rendered to XAVC-S which can be downloaded here.

https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/iBrmg3A0

Please note, that the glitch not always is the first frame of the new clip. They happen when rending to Intel HEVC and also when rendering to XAVC-S. Other UHD formats have not jet been tested. But when rendering to FHD I could not see any glitch.

I tried it with Vp14 B270, the current Vp15 B261 and also with B216 and the current and previous Mercalli version getting always some glitches. In the past I did about 10 large UHDp30 projects with Vp13 and rendered to HEVC using frameserver and Handbrake and could never see any of those glitches.

Do any other user have these errors? Any Idea what to try next ?

Comments

3POINT wrote on 12/4/2017, 7:10 AM

Did you update your Mercalli plugin? I had those glitches before with VPro14 and VMS14 (but the first frame only).After updating this happens far less but still sometimes. This is no good for a plugin which you have to pay for twice.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/4/2017, 7:44 AM

Same happened here too on a 1080 60p project and I don't think it's frame rate or resolution depended. The re-analyze should only happen when the clip length changes but it also does so when it hasn't changed, at least not apparently. It happens in the preview and also during render which even more annoying. I did notice that it happens more so if I copy event attributes that already include Mercalli. In such a case, I delete the Mercalli plugin and add it fresh which reduces the change of it happening but doesn't eliminate it. I am general not very happy with the plugin but feel t's more convenient than working with the stand alone version, especially in a multi cam project.

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 8:21 AM

Did you update your Mercalli plugin?

@3POINT

Yes, I tried it with a couple of version including the actual 4.0.482.1

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 8:24 AM

The re-analyze should only happen when the clip length changes but it also does so when it hasn't changed, at least not apparently. It happens in the preview and also during render which even more annoying.

@OldSmoke

Yes, that's what I'm used to. But in these cases the whole clip is marked to be analyzed. In my new case it is only one frame of a clip and it is not shown in the timeline - only visible in the rendered output.

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 8:33 AM

For me it's not clear if Vegas or Mercalli is responsible for these glitches. It would be good to have a (shorter) project, with which they could be made reproducable.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/4/2017, 9:40 AM

For me it's not clear if Vegas or Mercalli is responsible for these glitches. It would be good to have a (shorter) project, with which they could be made reproducable.

I am also on the fence who's at fault. FYI, I am on SVP13.

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 9:53 AM

FYI, I am on SVP13.

@OldSmoke

That's strange to me, because I never had these gliches with Sony Vegas pro 13 B453. What Mercalli V4 version are you using ?

OldSmoke wrote on 12/4/2017, 9:57 AM

It’s the latest version, I didn’t check the number but I checked for updates and it mentioned that the latest is already installed.

I had this issue in SVP13 ever since Mercalli 4 came out, especially with 4K 30p footage from my AX-100 and a6300.

Kinvermark wrote on 12/4/2017, 10:12 AM

My recommendation it to use a "render-replace" workflow. That is, stabilize your clips and then render out an intermediate to "bake in" the effect. I have also seen these random "re-analyse" problems and guess that they are related to interaction between how Vegas' caches frames and how the plug-in reads those frames. It may not be fixable. I used to see something similar with cineform clips that had color metatdata applied.

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 10:26 AM

Injad this issue in SVP13 ever since Mercalli 4 came out, especially with 4K 30p footage from my AX-100 and a6300.

Then I must have been lucky since I have a couple of longer UHDp30 projects, that did not show these glitches. In October 2016 I installed V4_4.0.471.1 and rendered with Vp13 via Handbrake. When I now use the actual Vp14 edited project in Vp13 with Mercalli V4.0.482.1 , I also get the glitches.

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 10:30 AM

It may not be fixable.

@Kinvermark

One way that I can think of a solution would be to hold of this message until more than one frame (ore two) would ask for analysis. So this could be done fairly easy in the Mercalli plug in.

OldSmoke wrote on 12/4/2017, 10:43 AM

I am not certain if the latest Vegasaur extension supports Mercalli but if it does, a batch stabilize command before rendering might do the trick?

Peter_P wrote on 12/4/2017, 10:49 AM

I normally use my own tool : AddMercalli - Mercalli V4 Automation , which can also be used to reanalize after changes.

However, the problem with these glitches is, that the events ‘feel’ correct analyzed and still bring up one frame with this message.

malowz wrote on 12/4/2017, 11:52 AM

i have this glitches sometimes, using 1080p avi intermediate videos. clearly is a plugin problem.

Peter_P wrote on 12/5/2017, 12:48 AM

Strange, I never had them when rendering to Sony AVC 1080p30/p50 and still did not get them when rendering my actual ~70 minutes project in Vp14 B270 to Sony AVC 1080p30.

peter-r wrote on 12/7/2017, 10:11 AM

Hello all,

these ‘Mercalli-Glitches’ are very bad. They destroy all Projects which are using Mercalli V4. It was driving me nuts for month. I did consider to Change the NLE. But now I have found a solution or workaround for the problem. Now rendering is a little bit slower, but all projects render without glitches.

What changes I tried, but didn`t solve the problem:

Windows 7 & Windows 10
Vegas 14 & Vegas 15
Nvidia Quadro K4200 & AMD RX 460 & AMD RX 480 & AMD RX 580
CPU 3930K with/without Hyperthreading all cores enabled & most cores disabled
old to new graphic-card drivers
complete new installed systems with minimal programs
Memory clock decreased
Dynamic RAM preview 0 to 1024
GPU acceleration ON/OFF
many more things I do not (I want not) remember

Only one thing did change everything:

Maximum number of rendering threads: 1

Only 1 not 2! If I use 2 or more the ‘Mercalli-Glitches’ are still present. Not often, but in nearly all rendered Projects.

Maybe someone will help this Information.

Best regards

Peter

Peter_P wrote on 12/7/2017, 10:44 AM

Only one thing did change everything:

Maximum number of rendering threads: 1

Only 1 not 2! If I use 2 or more the ‘Mercalli-Glitches’ are still present. Not often, but in nearly all rendered Projects.

Thanks, I'll try .

3POINT wrote on 12/7/2017, 12:59 PM

Maximum number of rendering threads: 1

With rendering threads set to 1, I wasn't able to reproduce a single glitch. Thank you very much for this solution.

Till now I also couldn't reproduce a crash when rendering with enabled GPU, where I still suffer from when rendering projects with compositing tracks.

Would be great when this setting would solve all my problems with Vegas and Movie Studio.

redpaw wrote on 12/7/2017, 1:50 PM

Then I must have been lucky since I have a couple of longer UHDp30 projects, that did not show these glitches. In October 2016 I installed V4_4.0.471.1 and rendered with Vp13 via Handbrake. When I now use the actual Vp14 edited project in Vp13 with Mercalli V4.0.482.1 , I also get the glitches.

Where did you get the v482 update from? I'm on 470 and when i click on check update in the plugin it says 'latest version already installed' - and logging into prodad account doesnt show vegas plugin updates for v4, only SAL version ;/

Kinvermark wrote on 12/7/2017, 3:12 PM

@peter-r

That's an interesting finding. I will test when I have some free time.

Would be a good idea to report this to both ProDad and Vegas teams so they can track the problem down. Can you do that please?

Also, does this affect "glitches" that occur during timeline playback or only on render? I definitely have seen occurences of the "re analysis required" message on the timeline even when nothing has changed.

Peter_P wrote on 12/8/2017, 12:41 AM

Where did you get the v482 update from?

I'm in direct contact with proDAD. Probably this is an unreleased beta version.

Peter_P wrote on 12/8/2017, 3:08 AM

@peter-r

Meanwhile I rendered this 70 minutes project the 12th time to UHDp30 Intel HEVC and now the last time with setting the maximum render threads to 1. In the first check I could not find any ‘Mercalli-Glitch’ and so I think this is a good workaround.

For the time being I will tick this as solution and will forward the information to proDAD.

Thanks again peter-r.

Peter_P wrote on 12/8/2017, 3:46 AM

Thinking a bit longer about the cause of this problem, I now would say that Vegas causes this presumable not easy to fix multi threading problem. Because these render threads are startet by Vegas as the host. On the other hand it could also be, that the started threads are not properly handled by the plug in. 🙃

peter-r wrote on 12/8/2017, 8:47 AM

You are welcome!

I am glad that I could help!