Motion Artifacts 15p to 24p

john_dennis wrote on 1/1/2011, 7:46 PM

I'm working on a project that will ultimately go to Blu-ray (1080-24p). I have various sources from still images to video from point and shoot cameras that will be rendered from Vegas 9.0e and/or 10.0b to the DVD Architect MPEG-2 1080-24p codec.

The Problem:
The video described below from the Canon G9 camera has motion artifacts when changing from the 15p to a BD-legal 24p using any codec that I've found, so far. Surprisingly, when I import the video into DVD Architect and render from DVD Architect there is no significant increase in artifacts. I hope the youtube processing doesn't mask the problem. Today, I've spent a lot of time trying different techniques, with few positive results.

The Source Video:
General
Complete name : J:\Bay 1 Construction 2009\2009-11-13\MVI_1546.AVI
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 62.5 MiB
Duration : 32s 800ms
Overall bit rate : 16.0 Mbps
Mastered date : Wed Nov 4 13:36:42 2009
Writing application : CanonMVI06

Video
Format : M-JPEG
Codec ID : MJPG
Duration : 32s 800ms
Bit rate : 15.3 Mbps
Width : 1 024 pixels
Height : 768 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 15.000 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.295
Stream size : 59.7 MiB (96%)

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Unsigned
Codec ID : 1
Codec ID/Hint : Microsoft
Duration : 32s 800ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 705.6 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 2.76 MiB (4%)
Interleave, duration : 994 ms (14.91 video frames)
Interleave, preload duration : 1000 ms

The 0000.m2ts file from a BD-R made from DVD Architect where DVD Architect rendered the video:

The 0000.m2ts file from a BD-R made from DVD Architect where Vegas Pro rendered the video with the MainConcept Blu-ray template:

I'll be reading posts about similar problems as soon as the uploads are finished. I'm certainly open to suggestions. Thank you.

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 1/1/2011, 8:22 PM

Is there a chance you can go 30 fps (59.94i) for the output?
It will be much easier on your 15fps source. In this case it might be advantageous to leave resampling "on."

If your other source is 24p of course this would mess it up.

john_dennis wrote on 1/1/2011, 8:26 PM

The other video material is mostly MXF 1920x1080x24p. It appears 24p is the only legal progressive BD frame rate.

Looking for the "resample" switch?

farss wrote on 1/1/2011, 10:46 PM

15fps is too slow to create the appearance of smooth motion, 18fps is the bottom limit and that's really pushing it. On top of that you've got seemingly little motion blur to hide the judder.
Also as Musicvid points out 15 does not go into 24 nicely.
You could use something like MVTools in AVISynth to do motion vector interpolation or you could use pixel by pixel time remapping in After Effects. Both should work OK as that's quite clean video.

Bob.

john_dennis wrote on 1/2/2011, 10:44 AM

Thank you Bob,

I've downloaded AVISynth and begun to read about MVTools. I will admit to quite a block to scripting, though I realize how good it can be to have different tools available. I have resisted it so strongly that, this morning, I've changed the bed, vacuumed the house, cleaned the tub and toilet just to keep from actually doing it. Hope my attitude changes soon.

john_dennis wrote on 1/2/2011, 3:49 PM

As I began to study the tools, I began to drink... and drink. Finally, in a drunken stupor and getting salt from mixed nuts on the keyboard, I tried frame-rate conversion with Handbrake. It does a good job!

Output Specs:

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 32s 657ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 13.1 Mbps
Width : 1 024 pixels
Height : 768 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Minimum frame rate : 23.974 fps
Maximum frame rate : 23.981 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.693
Stream size : 50.8 MiB (99%)
Writing library : x264 core 79
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / wpredb=1 / wpredp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=16.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2011-01-02 23:03:37
Tagged date : UTC 2011-01-02 23:04:36

Now, we'll see how the mp4 holds up to the rest of the Blu-ray work flow.

essami wrote on 1/2/2011, 4:05 PM

Try right clicking on the click, choosing properties and checking "disable resample" and then try to render out. This is how I get good results when converting material from pal to ntsc.

Sami

john_dennis wrote on 1/2/2011, 4:38 PM

"Try right clicking on the clip, choosing properties and checking "disable resample"

That reduces motion artifacts and looks much better. Rendered out of Vegas Pro 10.0b from 15 fps to 23.97 fps progressive and from 1024x768 to 1920x1080 in a single pass using the SONY MXF HD EX (1920x1080-24p) template and it looks fine to me.

Thanks, Sami

farss wrote on 1/2/2011, 6:19 PM

The motion judder looks only slightly better to my eyes watching it at 720p. The test is when the guy lifts the shovel up out of the hole to dump the blue metal into the barrow.

At the end of the day this is an 'industrial' video and the judder isn't offensive, it might be on a big screen of course but ....

Bob.

john_dennis wrote on 1/2/2011, 9:00 PM

The aspect that I found most offensive was that the helmets would appear to bobble before the person started to move. I expect a certain amount of blur when a shovel moves quickly and far.

Here's a link to one that has less manipulation since it was rendered from Vegas with no resample to 1080-23.97p. I used Handbrake to convert to MPEG-4 without converting to 30p. Blame some of what you see on youtube.

I'm paying a high price for trying to get more professional results with 15p source. Learning about AviSynth is still on my list because I've seen some of what it can do.

NickHope wrote on 1/9/2012, 11:15 PM

The script to do this shouldn't be too complex. This is adapted pretty straight from the mvtools2 documentation:

AVISource("c:\test.avi") # or MPEG2Source, DirectShowSource, some previous filter, etc

# assume progressive PAL 15 fps source

super = MSuper(pel=2)

backward_vec = MAnalyse(super, isb = true)

forward_vec = MAnalyse(super, isb = false)

MFlowFps(super, backward_vec, forward_vec, num=24, den=1, ml=100) # get 24 fps

Haven't tried it personally but it might make a good job. I recommend SEt's Avisynth 2.6 MT with plugins from the "Modded Plugins Package" found here.

Time to vacuum the house again John!

john_dennis wrote on 1/10/2012, 12:07 AM

Thanks Nick.

I was in a box trying to make everything 24p because most of the video was already 24p. I actually used the 15p video as a separate title on the Blu-ray and rendered it 720-60p with no resample. It didn't look any better but it didn't look any worse, either.

johnmeyer wrote on 1/10/2012, 10:26 AM

1. Right-clicking on each event and then clicking on "disable resample" will provide the clearest restuls, with the fewest artifacts, but the motion will be somewhat "jerky," especially when the camera pans.

2. If you want smoother results, MVTools2 will certainly provide that, but it will fail when objects cross close to the camera, or the camera pans across a picket fence, or you have people's legs, walking in medium shot. (You can read about these problems on the Twixtor site, because Twixtor uses the same technology as MVtools2). See the "Problematic Footage" section on this page:

Twixtor Support FAQ

If you want to use MVTools2 to do your frame rate change, you will need to "tune" the parameters somewhat. Here is a slightly more involved version of the script already offered. I used this to change some 10 fps still camera video to 23.976 (you should use 23.976 if you are encoding to DVD; I'm not sure if 24 fps is the correct frame rate for Blu-Ray).

loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\MVTools\mvtools2.dll")



AVISource("e:\frameserver.avi")



#Optional resize; If you don't use, put the "source=" part on the line above

source=AssumeFPS(10, false).LanczosResize(720,480) #Spline16resize(720,480)



super=MSuper(source,pel=2)



#Block size and overlap are very important, and you should experiment. Larger block size (16) sometimes reduces artifacts. 

#You want to use search=3 for this application

backward_vec = MAnalyse(super,blksize=8, overlap=2, isb = true,  search=3, searchparam=3 )

forward_vec =  MAnalyse(super,blksize=8, overlap=2, isb = false, search=3, searchparam=3 )



#The num/den settings produce 23.976. Use 24 & 1 for 24 fps.

MFlowFps(source,super,backward_vec, forward_vec, num=24000, den=1001, ml=100)



AssumeFPS(23.976, true)

john_dennis wrote on 1/10/2012, 11:41 PM

Thank you John.