New X99 Computer for Editing GH4 4K Video in VP13

NickHope wrote on 9/7/2014, 3:25 PM

Finally time to build a new PC after soldiering on for more than 7 years with my old Q6600/XP x64 machine.

It's primarily for editing Panasonic GH4 4k footage in Vegas Pro 13, but I also want to have a play with DaVinci Resolve Lite 11, Reason 8, and have the possibility of working with Adobe PPro and After Effects.

It will be built by Compute and More in Bangkok who built my last 2 boxes in 2003 and 2007. We've come up with the following specs based on the new Haswell-E, X99 and DDR4 stuff:

Motherboard: Asus X99-Deluxe

CPU: Intel i7-5960X

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws 4 series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 2400 (or 2666/2800 if it reaches Bangkok this week) (Edit: I should have got 2133. Reasons below)

O/S & programs drive: Plextor M6e M.2 128GB SSD drive (Edit: I ended up getting a Samsung 850 Pro 256Gb. Reasons below.)

Media drive: 2 x Western Digital Red NAS 4TB drives in a RAID 0 (Edit: I used IRST (Intel's "fake" RAID))

Render drive: Existing 1TB or 2TB HDD (Edit: I ended up without a render drive as such)

Other data drive: Existing 1TB HDD (Edit: I used 2 x existing Samsung 1Tb HDDs in IRST RAID 0. May add 2 more to make RAID10)

Case: Corsair Graphite Series 760T Full Tower with windowed sides (Edit: I ended up with the newer Corsair Graphite Series™ 780T White Full-Tower PC Case.)

CPU cooling: Corsair Hydro series H110 (Edit: This has rattly fans! It's a known problem. I swapped them for 2 x Noctua NF-A14 PWM)

Power supply: Corsair RM850 (Edit: I ended up with the RM1000).

GPU 1: Sapphire Radeon HD6970 (already bought on eBay) (Edit: This is in the primary slot with my monitors plugged into it.)

GPU 2: EVGA GTX 580 (already bought on eBay)

Drive bay: Thermaltake Max 5 Duo

Sound card: Don't know. M-Audio USB? (Edit: I ended up with the M-Audio M-track)

Monitors: Existing Dell 24", Asus 24" and Philips 17" (for now)

O/S: Windows 8.1 Pro

The whole GPU issue is a bit of a mess. I bought these GPUs off eBay because they seem to be the ones that are fastest with Vegas. But it seems neither of them support 4k, so in the short term I'll just monitor my 4k at 1080p on my existing monitor. Also both are behind the curve when it comes to optimum performance in DaVinci Resolve. I'll do various testing to see which is fastest (and most stable) in Vegas/Resolve and to see how they behave themselves when I run both together. I guess I may end up using only one of them and adding a 2nd, newer card that will support 4k for a new 28" 4k monitor.

I'd appreciate any comments on the choice of components, and I have the following specific questions:

1. Is 128GB likely to be enough for the O/S and typical programs going forward? Or should I get 256GB? I currently use only a 36GB C: drive! Quite a price difference between 128 and 256GB.
2. Is 32GB enough RAM? (later I might switch this for 64GB of faster RAM)
3. Do those GPUs need their own liquid cooling? (the builder said not)
4. Is RAID 0 necessary and the best flavour of RAID for my media drive?
5. Should I be looking at a 2nd RAID or an SSD for my render drive or is a standlone HDD OK?
6. Should I be looking at a small extra SSD cache drive as well?
7. Are those WD Red HDDs a good idea over the Green or Black ones? I don't suppose I need NAS but the builder is keen on them.
8. Any thoughts on best GPUs for use with Vegas Pro, Resolve, PPro/After Effects and 4k monitor? (maybe I should phrase this "Which 4k-supporting GPU is the least bad with Vegas?")

Comments

pilsburypie wrote on 9/7/2014, 3:42 PM

A very fast machine. I can offer advice on very little except for the SSD OS drive. Depends if this is going to be an editing only machine or have other programs on. I have a 128GB SSD and it fills up quick. Wish I had gone for a 256 Gb drive. The 256 Samsung I'm looking at is £85.

NickHope wrote on 9/7/2014, 4:06 PM

Thanks pilsburypie. It's going to have a lot of other programs on it. I guess I should look at the 256GB then.

Stuff here in Thailand is more expensive than the USA, and these new M.2 SSDs are expensive. The 128GB equates to USD155 and the 256GB one is USD286.

Stringer wrote on 9/7/2014, 4:17 PM

Why 32gb RAM ?

( Very envious of overall specs... )

fldave wrote on 9/7/2014, 4:28 PM

Careful, I'd wait a bit. Numerous reports of X99s burning up in the news today

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/09/06/2131223/some-core-i7-5960x--x99-motherboards-mysteriously-burning-up

OldSmoke wrote on 9/7/2014, 4:56 PM

Nick.

I love the specs and its actually what is on my list too if I go the X99 route instead of 2x Xeon. I would however go for a bigger PSU, the Corsair 1200. It's a bit more but you will have it for a long time. Oh, and never skimp on a Battery Backup either; can safe tons of time if the power fails. I lived in Malaysia for 13 years power outage was a common thing. Parts are slightly cheaper in Malaysia, maybe worth a trip?

ddm wrote on 9/7/2014, 6:36 PM

Nice sounding machine. One comment on the size of the SSD drive. I have a 240gb on my main machine and on my laptop. I first thought that it would be tough to keep everything on that little space, since I was used to larger, spinning drives. I have found that it's pretty easy to keep all the apps I use, and use a lot, or, at least I own a lot. I have had this setup for about 2 years now and I find that I can keep all my programs in about 110 to 140 gbs. I do keep my music and media libraries on separate drives, but that kind of goes without saying. So a 128 seems to constrictive, but a 240 seems like plenty.

john_dennis wrote on 9/7/2014, 11:20 PM

"O/S & programs drive: Plextor M6e M.2 128GB SSD drive"

I wouldn't pay any premium for a PCI Express SSD. It will save you a few seconds of boot time (maybe) and possibly give you higher peak transfer rate but not add much to the process of "building peaks" on a source data drive or speed up those three day renders. If the price is the same as a Samsung Pro 128, knock yourself out. Otherwise, I'd "settle" for 240GB Samsung Pro or equivalent.

"Power supply: Corsair RM850"

I have a Seasonic brand preference but the last power supply I bought was a Corsair modular and it has been just fine. I bought it on the way home from work to replace one that had run into a shorted cable for some time. The shorted one actually works but I don't want to use it for the next few years.

NickHope wrote on 9/8/2014, 3:15 AM

So I'm definitely going to go for a 240GB-256GB SSD instead of the smaller one. John D, the Plextor M.2 drives aren't actually wildly more expensive than the regular SATA ones here, so I think I'm going to indulge and afford myself a smile each morning at boot-up time. I noticed that the Plextor M.2 256GB has a much faster write speed (580MB/s) than the 128GB (335MB/s) so that's a good reason to choose it apart from just the capacity.

"Careful, I'd wait a bit. Numerous reports of X99s burning up in the news today"

fldave, thanks for the heads-up. There could be so many reasons for those 2 problems, and there's a huge number of people without any problems, not to mention all the QC done by the manufacturers. So I think I'm going to take the early-adoption risk regardless. Unfortunately the timing of my upgrade cycle isn't great, but without an immediate PC upgrade my GH4 is pretty useless. I've used my GH4 4k proxy workflow a bit but the transcoding to 1080p proxies is just taking too long. And because we're talking 4k and power-hungry applications it seems logical to invest in the latest platform which is a leap in performance from the old one. I'm encouraged by the fact that my builder will run-in the new machine at his risk, and that in the past he replaced FOC an ASUS mobo that I bricked with a failed BIOS update.

"Why 32GB RAM?"

I assume you mean "as much as" 32GB RAM? Just because, based on what I've read, I think more than 16GB will get used, especially in Resolve. I actually considered 64GB. I wish I could get faster than 2400MHz. Maybe it will arrive here just in time. Or maybe a bit more RAM speed is not that important?

"I would however go for a bigger PSU, the Corsair 1200."

Actually that model is USD200 more here, which seems a bit excessive. Is 850W going to be enough if I end up with 2 x big GPUs in there and a load of hard drives? I'm reading that the HD 6970 alone under load can draw 306W. I could go for the RM1000 which is only USD30 more. Opinions?

I've chosen my sound card, the external M-Audio M-Track which seems perfect for voiceover and a bit of work in Reason with my MIDI keyboard.

I'd still welcome any opinions on the other questions in my original post.

Grazie wrote on 9/8/2014, 3:51 AM

I could go for the RM1000 which is only USD30 more. Opinions?

I've had its 1kw predecessor. After 3 years of heavy usage, the fan bearings failed AND having previous lower specced PSUs fail on me, the 1000 was replaced under warranty and I now have the RM1000. It's silent running and the knowledge that it's over specced for my present consumption is reassuring. 30 BUX more? Cheap reassurance. A 1kw PSU, with all the power requirements, is now a min for me.

Grazie

john_dennis wrote on 9/8/2014, 4:44 AM

Since the Plextor has its own host buss adapter, you should verify that your boot image backup/restore software can see it while your system builder is burning it in. This is in case (when) you have to do a standalone restore.

Mark_e wrote on 9/8/2014, 5:31 AM

I'd go for 3gig+ memory in the video card if it's for 4k it's a lot easier to run out especially if you end up doing some compositing depending on the program you use I've been using the GTX780TI 3gig and it works fine for me with vegas, hitfilm, blender etc.only ran it out of memory and had to go CPU only once in Blender rest have been ok, I'd say 32gig system ram min I have 16gig currently and have to be really careful about paging if I have a few apps open doing 4k going to be upgrading soon to 64gig.

fldave wrote on 9/8/2014, 6:17 AM

I wouldn't skimp on the power supply. Lots of lightning here in Florida, and basic PSUs will last one year and one day. Get a big one, and make sure it has a 5yr warranty.

NickHope wrote on 9/8/2014, 11:07 AM

RM1000 it is then. And 32GB memory, for now.

"Since the Plextor has its own host buss adapter, you should verify that your boot image backup/restore software can see it while your system builder is burning it in. This is in case (when) you have to do a standalone restore."

This is a bit tricky, as by that stage I doubt I'll be able to return it if it's working in other respects. I'll have to see if I can get an answer up-front, but a quick search hasn't found much. I use Acronis Trueimage but could change. You really think this is likely to be a problem? It's going to bite a lot of people if it is.

OldSmoke wrote on 9/8/2014, 11:15 AM

Good choice on the higher rated PSU! A bigger PSU will run cooler and last longer. Do you have a UPS or do you intend to purchase one?

NickHope wrote on 9/8/2014, 11:26 AM

I've had an APC Back-UPS RS 1100 for maybe 3 or 4 years and it's been 100% successful in handling the frequent power cuts we have here and giving me time to shut down. However I don't like it because after a power outage (or just being turned off), the fan turns on for ages and it's noisy.

So I was planning on taking my older APC Battery Back-UPS RS 1000 (the tall pale slim one) to get new batteries fitted and start using that again. However I read somewhere today about older UPSs being incompatible with modern PSUs. One allegedly destroys the other, but I can't remember which. Should I be worried?

john_dennis wrote on 9/8/2014, 12:06 PM

"You really think this is likely to be a problem? It's going to bite a lot of people if it is."

It was at least an intermittent problem for one Newegg customer. It's something you have to test with every hardware / software forklift upgrade. Admittedly, something you don't do very often.

OldSmoke wrote on 9/8/2014, 12:08 PM

I read that too but also cant remember which causes what. I have an APC XS1500 and a Corsair AX1200 and have no issues.

I found this for your reading! http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=5553

NickHope wrote on 9/8/2014, 1:27 PM

Thanks for the clarification John D. I had an online chat with a rather baffled tech at Acronis and his concluding line regarding the Plextor m6e M.2 SSD was "there is no documentation on its support as it is a new technology to test on". Will talk to my system builder about it and take along my True Image 2014 evaluation copy on a USB stick.

OldSmoke, that "active PFC compatibility" issue is a bit of a bolt from the blue isn't it. It seems that the life of your PSU (or UPS) might be reduced even if you have no apparent issues.

I've located a Cleanline S pure-sine-wave UPS here in Thailand and it's USD $600! Again I'll see what the system builder says, but I think I'll hold back on refurbishing my old APC UPS. I'll see if I can get a CyberPower one here for a more reasonable price. Should I be looking to match the power of the RM1000 or exceed it? In other words which of these models would you choose?

The APC UPSs with pure sine wave appear to be the Smart-UPS C Series, model numbers SMC1000, SMC1500, SMC1000-2U, SMC1500-2U. More expensive in the USA than the CyberPower ones.

OldSmoke wrote on 9/8/2014, 2:07 PM

I try to match the UPS to about half load when your system is at full load. My system draws at the most 550W which is actually a bit under the spec. now that I run two GTX580. It is still running fine but yes, it is a concern as it isn't a true sinus wave UPS. So far I haven't had it running on full load for a long time, power outage only happened once during rendering and the system just shut down within 3 minutes or so. I don't let it run until the battery gets drained and then shut down, I let it shut down as soon as the power is out for more then a minute.

The person's system in the forum has a system that draws 400W with a UPS that can only handle 450W... that is a NO NO to begin with. Every manufacturer is "overspec-ing" their equipment and from every spec I usually take of 10% and then you a need a safety factor of 20%... well that's just my rule but it hasn't failed me so far.

astar wrote on 9/8/2014, 4:07 PM

I personally think that CPU is overpriced, in a few months that is going to be mainstream. Upgrade more often with less expensive things.

32GB is a good thing. I have seen HD projects run 6GB, and if you have anything rendering in the background, VMs, or chrome open you can us that memory fast. OS disk cache is a good thing, and much faster than going to a high latency disk and limited bandwidth in terms of speed of memory.

I would go 1TB SSD for your media drives, and put the 2 WD RED drives in a software raid 1. Use the RED drives for long term project storage. why would you want to edit on a 5400 RPM variable speed drive. Editing you want the fastest access possible for cache reasons, you are not reading tape

GPUs - more video RAM, I am thinking more like 4GB per card. I think the cards listed are a bit long in tooth. I think we need more video memory to crunch the video effects and throw pixels to screen. That also means optimising the PCIe interface of the motherboard to GPU. I wish there was an application that showed what was running in the memory of your video card.

APC smart-ups also offer good management interfaces with contact closures, temp monitoring, SNMP alerting. Smart-ups series also support AVR, which is overvoltage protection that trims continuous high voltage.

*RANT*
I personally think Vegas is designed to run on very high end hardware like 16 core Xeon workstations, with professional GPUs, and copious amounts of memory. Hence the 16 thread option default in the options panel. Setting hyperthreading aside, with workstations you get get more threads, more memory bandwidth, and PCIe lanes generally. Also remember that Sony demoed months ago a workstation running 4K at a trade show with a firepro w9000 series, most likely on a workstation class machine and not the lastest desktop processor. Vegas and or the video editing industry really needs an app that determines, "oh...you don't have enough Floating point power or your memory bandwidth is to low." What we really need is system specs that operate at full frame rate, with a couple effects applied in the 32-bit color, rec2020, or aces color spaces. Because that is the future of 4k, HD is going to fade as fast as SD has.

OldSmoke wrote on 9/8/2014, 6:12 PM

I personally think that CPU is overpriced, in a few months that is going to be mainstream.

8 core mainstream? I doubt that. Is it overpriced? Yes, and so is every Extreme series processor as well as Xeon.

and put the 2 WD RED drives in a software raid 1.

That motherboard has plenty of hardware raid options, no need to go for a slow software option.

I personally think Vegas is designed to run on very high end hardware like 16 core Xeon workstations,

I agree that Vegas does certainly run great on a workstation machine but the idea of Vegas was always that it can run on a less powerful system too... and it does.

HD is going to fade as fast as SD has.

Now that isn't a good indication at all. According to the many users in this forum, SD is still a very strong delivery format... unfortunately.

astar wrote on 9/8/2014, 6:27 PM

Editing and delivery are always different. SD is still around because of DVD, and low bandwidth, but I would believe most edit in HD and down res to SD. Streaming folks use SD mainly due to processing and bandwidth constraints. When you have fly by night streaming hardware reviewers in Kentucky, getting 1gbs internet from their ISP, Hd will not last long in that future.

8-core will be mainstream i7 soon. Think back to 2 core days, and tell me 4 core is not mainstream now?

For most users hardware raid is beyond their ability to recover from. OS raid is not slow a system with that memory and CPU spec. OS raid creates a drive that is always moveable to another PC with out hardware raid recovery issues. If that makes sense in an abbreviated explanation.

OldSmoke wrote on 9/8/2014, 9:39 PM

[I]8-core will be mainstream i7 soon. Think back to 2 core days, and tell me 4 core is not mainstream now?[/I]

I still doubt it because 6-core isn't even mainstream right now. 6 cores can only be found in Xeons and Extreme series CPU like my already aged 3930K. Also keep in mind that the average person using a PC doesn't do NLE, Gaming or 3D stuff, they do Office applications and Internet for which 4 cores are sufficient, hell even 2 cores can do the job.

Hardware RAID may have it its issues but it's nothing that cant be dealt with or learned. Intel's RST (Rapid Storage Technology) is so simple to setup that anyone can do it. All the "work" is done in the HBA and the CPU doesn't even know that there is a RAID at all. Why put extra load on the CPU? But, there is a major difference between PCIe RAID controllers and Onboard ones and from my own experience the Onboard ones are faster, not as sophisticated but faster. I am about to take out an Adaptec 6805E from my system and send it back for that reason.

flyingski wrote on 9/9/2014, 3:12 AM

Nick,
I've been using 4 WD RED drives in a Synology raid box to store important files after I paid $2k to have a client's data restored from a failed drive. The RED's are reliable unless they are beaten to death in shipping from Newegg due to their poor packaging. If your local builder is keen on a NAS with the RED's then trust him and enjoy the peace of mind.