OT: Apple delivers...how about Sony?

Back to post

Comments

rmack350 wrote on 4/18/2007, 2:17 PM
Ken,

What I hear you saying is other NLEs are so much better that you might actually try one someday.

If you ever get around to it, let us know what your experiences are.

Rob Mack
BrianStanding wrote on 4/18/2007, 2:38 PM
"But can Vegas function and communicate without having to render to AE?"
Yup. Just use Satish's free frameserver.

"Hell, Sony doesnt even offer multicamming out of the box."
No, but there are lots of scripting options, ranging from cheap to free, that will do this very nicely. Premiere doesn't do a lot of things (like color correction!)without adding in third party plug-ins.

"What about a better HDV capture app since most I know use HDVSplit."
I don't know, so I'm asking, can't you set whatever capture program you want in the preferences? I know you can in SD (lots of folks use Scenalyzer). Is that not true in HD?
winrockpost wrote on 4/18/2007, 2:49 PM
Geeze,, Vegas has never been an avid killer a p killer an fcp killer.
I just dont get it, its a $500.00 program , it works great for me on lots of projects, sometimes all by itself sometimes with aftereffects sometimes i do stuff in edius .Again it cost 500 Dollars !!!! and I make a decent living with it, i dont need any cheezy ass titles, i have boris for that
sorry for yelling
p@mast3rs wrote on 4/18/2007, 5:07 PM
Brian,

theres a major difference in offering things integrated and having to resort to a third party app.

True, one can use Satish's frameserver but then you are reliant upon another programin order to do what you can do natively within Adobe's app. Same thing with multicamming. While there are products that provide excellent results, multicam was a no brainer feature that should have been in 6 or at least by 7.

Again, no one is questioning the excellent tool Vegas is for cutting. The problem is that the more advanced we get with our projects, the more we find ourselves having to go outside of Vegas for the things we need. Need to go to After Effects, you have to render. Need to go to Encore, you have to render. Need a plugin that doesnt support Sony, have to render to another app to use it. All of this adds more time to complete projects.

Sony should have gone to other developers and found a way to work with their apps to increase the value for their users. When Adobe started buying everything up was the key sign that the playing field has changed dramatically.

So yeah, I might sound a little upset with Sony. Because as it looks currently (considering Sony has made no official or non official statements) it will be at least until the end of the year until we have next gen authoring or Vista support. Thats crap.

Furthermore, many posts keep saying Vegas is only a $500 app or that Sony is not trying to compete with the three A's. Why arent they? Vegas claims to be a professional app. The three A's are pro apps. Sony should have had the foresight to either develop the technologies or license them from companies like Serious Magic. If that was to have happen, then we would be a much happier crowd.

Ken, if you really think that Encore doesnt wipe the floor with DVDA, then you are sadly mistaken. So you may get tired of reading about it but that doesnt change the facts tat Encore provides a more rounded product IMO. With new version if offers even more unless Sony somehow snuck in Flash with DVD menu support on DVDA.

Its ok to be grouchy. Im grouchy too that Sony has allowed Adobe to earn my money moreso than I ever wanted. Heck, it was last year rght before NAB that i was hoping V7 was going to deliver much more so I could finally dump Adobe. I guess I am glad that didnt happen after all.
Cliff Etzel wrote on 4/18/2007, 5:24 PM
p@t - I understand your position completely - no matter how hard I try to wrap my head around working with SONY's apps, I find myself leaving them unused on my editing station more and more - if it weren't for AP4 (Still the best version IMO), I honestly would say I would have no reason to use their products. I have constantly found that - although Adobe's apps can be more resource intensive - I have NEVER had PPro or Audition crash on me while using them - I can bounce back and forth between them and find that each app offers more for me than Vegas does.

So why do I continue to hang out here? Because in the back of my mind, I keep hoping to see Vegas finally get to a place where I can give it serious consideration. I was interviewed extensively by a consulting firm for Adobe this winter wanting to know what my experiences were with Adobe's Video Editing Apps - I told them, straight up that I thought they were the best in terms of usability and feature set. That may sound blasphemous here but reality is, as example, Sound Forge 7 and 8 required a $250+ noise reduction plugin to clean up audio - yet, Audition had that as a built in feature. Vegas - virtually no third party plugins (although it has gotten a little better) as compared to PPro. Now with Soundbooth coming out to compete with Cinescore, I have to ask myself why should I try to learn SONY's apps when Adobe's apps bring streamlined functionality and efficiency to my workflow?

I really want to like Vegas - I have tried on numerous occasions, but I still go back to PPro - even for simple cutting - it just works for me - no crashes, no out of memory issues (I do run x64 XP Pro with 4GB RAM which probably helps).

I'll still be keeping an eye out to see what happens but Adobe has my vote for the time being :-/
je@on wrote on 4/18/2007, 8:02 PM
"...if I can't output an industry standard project file from Vegas that will open properly in Pro Tools or Avid, or in FCP, then I can't stay with Vegas."

vitalforce sez it all...
deusx wrote on 4/19/2007, 12:16 AM
"...if I can't output an industry standard project file from Vegas that will open properly in Pro Tools or Avid, or in FCP, then I can't stay with Vegas."

I feel sorry for you if you have to use crap like Avid or pro tools.
I understand if you have to work with other people using those apps and you have to share ( in which case you should tell them to wake up ).

Main thing I like about Vegas is that you don't need two crap apps like Avid and pro tools to do the job Vegas can do on its own.
It's a DAW and NLE and works on any laptop, while those two with their ridiculous hardware requirements, work on about 2% of machines out there and stll suck. ( more expensive Avids don't suck for video, I'm thinking of xpress, but protools = garbage )
DGates wrote on 4/19/2007, 12:34 AM
deusx,

Are you like 10 years old or something? You act like a little brat in a sandbox that disses the toys of the other kids, because they're not the ones you're playing with.

Grow up.
TGS wrote on 4/19/2007, 1:14 AM
Okay, how many of you have actually tried these? Or do you just believe everything they say.
deusx wrote on 4/19/2007, 5:31 AM
I have tried all of them and stand by it.

Avid xpress and pro tools are garbage. My age is irrelevant and won't change those facts echoed by many more people who had to use them because they were considered a "standard" in the industry.

Just as it is a fact that Vegas will do the work of both of those and do it happily on any laptop or desktop, while those two will not work properly or at all on most hardware. Again, speaking from experience, and I only use pretty good hardware, none of which ever had any problems whatsoever with Vegas + RME combinations..
sonic ra wrote on 4/19/2007, 7:29 AM
"The cute little NLE that could" is just that. Nice price...Get your feet wet. Barring a big announcement today (i.e. 10 bit color, AE integration, titling of its own worth anything), even more videomakers trying to make a living will be forced to jump a sinking ship, IMO.
PeterWright wrote on 4/19/2007, 7:57 AM
Thanks for your opinion, sonic ra, here's mine.

There's nothing sinking. I will continue to make a good living with Vegas alone and look forward with confidence to the future.

- and to all those still going on about titling - yes, there's more to be added, but don't overdo it - Vegas already has a "serious" titler - have a look at the majority of professional productions - nothing flash - often white text on black background - vegas's present titler does heaps more than that - what you're after is a more cheesy, frivolous titler, and there are plenty of simple ways of doing your chrome finishes ...
Jay Gladwell wrote on 4/19/2007, 8:02 AM

Well said, Peter!

BrianStanding wrote on 4/19/2007, 8:33 AM
"Waaa waaa waaaa. I didn't get an update at NAB!" (Never mind that V7 is barely 7 months old)

"I didn't get every pet feature I want!" (Never mind that most of these have nothing to do with 90% of video editing.)

"I want everything built-in, so I don't have to use (cheap or free) plug-ins or scripts!" "I want Vegas to support more (expensive) plug-ins like AE and Premiere do to do things Vegas already does internally!!"

"I can't make cheesy titles with the push of single button!"

"I don't want to have to read the manual to find out that Vegas can already do what I've been whining about!"

"I want Vegas to change its entire video architecture, support bleeding-edge technology that no-one outside of production studios and high-tech geeks uses, support Vista, all RIGHT NOW, and keep it just as stable as it's always been! But don't waste your time with that 64-bit stuff, cause I still want to be able to run it on Microsoft Windows 98!"

"I want Vegas to have all the bells and whistles that multi-application production suites costing thousands of dollars have, but I want all upgrades to be free and I want the whole software to cost less than $500!"

Bunch o' crybabies.

O.K. rant mode now off. Back to EDITING!
ken c wrote on 4/19/2007, 9:07 AM
hey I *like* my chrome/glass finishes lol...

and yeah some folks are like the band on the deck of the titanic as it's sinking... vegas is a terrific tool, and I love it a lot, and Yes I make my living with it, too, fulltime, with the 27+ DVDs I've produced, and I'm grateful to Sony for at least trying to keep it alive with the minor new releases we've seen this past 3 years.

but the fact is, it's not in the same league as the current generation of NLEs, and it's worth at least comparing the *new* versions of PP and others, to see if the workflow integration and other advanced features, make sense for *your* particular needs.

but sure, vegas as is, will do 90% of what we all need.. it's the other 10% that's worth looking into, especially if you do a lot of production work...


ken
rmack350 wrote on 4/19/2007, 9:08 AM
Yep. That pretty much sums it up.

-Rob
deusx wrote on 4/19/2007, 10:21 AM
>>>>it's not in the same league as the current generation of NLEs, and it's worth at least comparing the *new* versions of PP and others, to see if the workflow integration and other advanced features, make sense for *your* particular needs<<<<

Why? If Vegas already meets those needs.

Let's say I take a laptop, Vegas and RME firefiace on the road. Record a whole album with it, then edit video for a couple of songs from that album. It can be done with just Vegas.

Can it be done with Premiere, Avid or FCP?
goodtimej wrote on 4/19/2007, 10:58 AM
Let me say I love Vegas to start with. Its all I have installed on my machine and I tout it to all that I know who deal with video. Really.

I hate to say it, but I ran into big problems last night with Vegas' titler. I am not looking to do anything "cheesy" or over the top. I just want to be able to do what is in my mind.

Are there any mods on here that can say why this isn't being addressed what with so much hollering going on? Does Premiere or AVID offer titlers built in.

Please, please don't once say 500 dollars. I would pay more so that is not even close to an issue.
rmack350 wrote on 4/19/2007, 11:07 AM
It seems like now is a really good time to get very detailed requests in to Sony on that titler. Sounds like we're looking at 7-8 months before Version 8.

Is there a third party titler that would meet your needs? What are your needs? Maybe this requires a new thread, or a bump on an old one?

Rob Mack
rextilleon wrote on 4/19/2007, 11:42 AM
LOL---haven't people been making these request for the last 3 releases? Anyhow, Vegas has its role in my work flow, for now.
rextilleon wrote on 4/19/2007, 11:44 AM
One of the problems with Sony, is that they really don't communicate well with their customers. For example, I have been asking for weeks if they were planning on releasing any more them packs for Cinescore. Not one response or comment. I am not asking for them to divulge some complex corporate strategy, just a simple question about support for their product.
sonic ra wrote on 4/19/2007, 11:49 AM
Mine too. There's a reason I look at this forum everyday and it's not to cry or whine about what Vegas can't do. It does plenty! But this seems like the perfect time to whine a little. Here's hoping all the squeaky wheels on this forum get some grease in the next version (10 bit, please!).
Coursedesign wrote on 4/19/2007, 12:02 PM
protools = garbage

You should write to the C.A.S. (Cinema Audio Society), and demand that they immediately recall their recent Best New Post Production Technology Award to Pro Tools 7.2 for "outstanding achievement in sound mixing and sound production technologies for television and feature films."
deusx wrote on 4/19/2007, 12:23 PM
If you think those awards have any meaning at all, you should check out grammy winners.

Milly Vanilly anybody?