OT: How many got hosed by Win10 Anniversary?

Cliff Etzel wrote on 8/6/2016, 1:16 PM
A rant: I had created a backup image of my previous install of Windows 10 - Installed Win 10 Anniversary and its a total mess! Unstable, Crashes constantly - and this after 4 clean installs and 16 hours of troubleshooting. I haven't' seen this kind of mess since the days of WinME and Vista. And to top it al off, Anniversary deleted the partition I had the backup image stored on (A dedicated HD Partition just for this kind of thing)! And the deletion of users backup partitions is a known issue for many users from what I've been reading online so now I'm left with an almost unusable desktop computer running Win 10 Anniversary.

Should I revert back to Windows 8.1 which was rock solid (as was the first Win 10 release). Since Microsoft in their infinite wisdom made my known working backup copy of Windows 10 and all apps go away, This seems about my only recourse - and of course it was a forced upgrade (I'm running Win 10 Home) and it installed during the night as I had forgotten to turn off my computer before going to bed night before last.

This has prompted me to seriously consider ditching Windows for good and moving to a MAC as much as I can't believe I'm saying that.

Anyone have suggestions on what I can do other than downgrade to Windows 8.1? If I could find an archived copy of the original Windows 10 install I'd go with that but TBH, I'm unsure now what to do - and I have a wedding to shoot later today and a big project to continue editing.

Comments

John_Cline wrote on 8/6/2016, 3:16 PM
Upgraded ten machines, no problem here,
ddm wrote on 8/6/2016, 3:22 PM
Sorry to hear that, Cliff. Frightening that it deleted your other partition. I've been a firm believer in cloning drives and keeping boot drives to a very manageable 240gb. I haven't partitioned a drive in years. I've had no problems so far, still have 5 or so computers to update, but I will take the time to clone each systems drive before performing the update. Again, sorry for your loss and don't think for a minute that this kind of thing only happens on Windows systems, it can happen to anyone, and it does, daily.
VidMus wrote on 8/6/2016, 8:08 PM
"And to top it al off, Anniversary deleted the partition I had the backup image stored on (A dedicated HD Partition just for this kind of thing)!"

You had the backup image on a partition of the same drive?

The reason for having a backup image is not only in case of a system problem but also in case the hard drive itself were to go bad. And they will go bad! So even if Windows 10 Anniversary was not the problem, what would you have done if the hard drive itself would have died? The answer is, you would have been hosed!

So even if you went back to an earlier version of Windows or even moved to a Mac, you still would have been hosed if you put your backup image on a separate partition of the same drive and if the drive had failed.

Now if you had put the backup image on a separate drive as you are supposed to do, then you would not have been hosed!

Sorry to hear about the problems you had but the bottom line is, you hosed yourself!

Cliff Etzel wrote on 8/6/2016, 11:20 PM
VidMus, I actually had the image on a separate drive, but it was internal and attached since it was used with Acronis Home to create backup images of the 240GB SSD drive that has only the OS and apps installed on it. Never had an issue keeping an internal drive as the backup/mirrored image until now. In all my years of using Windows (clear back to Windows 3.11 for Workgroups) have I seen such a radical takeover of a computer like I've experienced with the Anniversary update.

And no I didn't hose myself, about the only thing I didn't do was have the image on an external drive - something I've never had to contend with til now. And it seems based on the flak Microsoft is getting from other users, I'm not the only one seeing this kind of thing happening. I've read of others who dual boot from different drives seeing their Windows 7 or 8.1 separate boot drives deleted completely after installing the Anniversary update - again, they are internal drives so it seems that this is indicative of Microsoft wanting to force anyone they can to Windows 10 with no reversion option. Fortunately, I still have my original install disks for Windows 8.1 and I'm sorely tempted to revert to it after this.

The other major issue is that using any other browser other than Microsoft Edge browser throws my into a total hard freeze and/or BSOD - again, I haven't' seen a BSOD since before Windows 7.

At least with a MAC, the ecosystem is tied together tightly. And I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. I would have to give up Vegas Pro unless I ran bootcamp, but after this experience, I would rather just use Final Cut X. At least I could get my work done instead of fighting this mess.
Nick Hope wrote on 8/7/2016, 2:28 AM
"At least with a MAC, the ecosystem is tied together tightly. And I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. I would have to give up Vegas Pro unless I ran bootcamp, but after this experience, I would rather just use Final Cut X. At least I could get my work done instead of fighting this mess. "

Cliff, as I said to you 18 months ago, based on the amount of difficulties and frustration with Windows/Vegas that you experience and share, and the mindset displayed by your forum posts, I really think you should be on a Mac. I think you'd be much more comfortable in the long term in Mac world. Please take this as positive advice and in no way a dig.
set wrote on 8/7/2016, 6:47 AM
No trouble over here so far... even though that's my biggest concern..., but so far so good to me...
ritsmer wrote on 8/7/2016, 7:19 AM
Have tried to install the anniversary update (W10 version 1607) for 3 days now - and after a lot of problems with missing this and that the update finally ran all the way through (it took about 6 hours) and reported "Update succeded".
Then - after a cold start - I checked the installed version number - it was still 1511 (??)
After some googling and changes I tried to update again - this time it took only about 1 hour.
But still Installed version: 1511.
...
After several re-installs the version is still 1511 - and I just give up for now.

Vegas 13 has been showing the preview window in several "overlays" and also crazily crashing with W10 until I changed the compatibility mode to W7. Since then (knock knock) It seems as stable as before the "upgrade" from W7 to W10 last week.

All together this W7-to-W10 "upgrade" has been a sick joke: my Windows Live mail stopped working - and could not be reinstalled because of some missing dll's. etc etc. so I had to buy a full Outlook and also a program for converting 3 years worth of mails - until now I have had to buy new programs for nearly 1000 USD.

Last little funny thing came when I tried to make a system repair disk: Microsoft wrote something like: Please insert the original Windows CD... which is kinda difficult as the W7-W10 "upgrade" is downloaded.... Probably they want me to buy a new W10 CD ...
... so I just made the C: disk copy with Acronis....

Grazie wrote on 8/7/2016, 7:35 AM
I'd need Nick or John to come to London to do mine. This stuff scares the B-Jangles out of me. Staying with M$7 here. Yeah, I'm a wuz.

G
John222 wrote on 8/7/2016, 7:54 AM
Win 10 is rock solid here. I also think you should take Nicks advice and go Mac. Btw, you should be able to recover that partition. Just download one of the many partition recovery packages and go to town.
monoparadox wrote on 8/7/2016, 8:45 AM
My understanding is once you have upgraded to windows 10 on a particular machine, you can always freely upgrade again. I'd just go with 8.1 until you can determine what your issue is.

-- tom
JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/7/2016, 9:56 AM
> "At least with a MAC, the ecosystem is tied together tightly. And I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. I would have to give up Vegas Pro unless I ran bootcamp, but after this experience, I would rather just use Final Cut X. At least I could get my work done instead of fighting this mess."

You know it's funny... when I saw your original post and you were looking for options, I was going to reply "You could always buy a Mac! (that's what I did)" but I didn't want to be seen as being rude so I refrained, but now that you have mentioned it... let me share my experience with you.

I started using a Mac at work back on OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard. You know how on Windows you would never dream of doing a major OS upgrade in place and everyone tells you to do a clean install or else you will have problems? Well, I have upgraded my MacBook Pro in-place every year from 10.6 Snow Leopard, to 10.7 Lion, 10.8 Mountain Lion, 10.9 Mavericks, 10.10 Yosemite, to finally 10.11 El Capitan that I'm using now and I have never had any problems. My MacBook Pro runs just as fast as the day I got it, six OS versions ago because it doesn't have a Windows registry that gets bloated and slows down the whole computer over time. That is the achilles heel of Windows and the source of most of it's trouble. It's a bottleneck and a really bad design and I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't gotten rid of it by now but then again... they still make a 32-bit version of Windows in 2016! Apple stopped supporting 32-bit mode five OS versions ago. (with 10.7 Lion) That forced all software to support 64-bit instead of the mess that Microsoft is proliferating.

Here is the other thing. I read posts here and on the Creative COW where users are agonizing for days or even weeks about what graphics card to buy, what motherboard to use, and I just smile. I've never had that problem on a Mac. The graphics card and motherboard in my Mac is the same graphics card and motherboard that the developers of Final Cut Pro X use on their Mac. There is simplicity in a closed system that has many benefits. I have found that having the ecosystem tied together tightly is definitely a good thing. So yes, while others are wasting their time trying decide what graphics card to buy I am busy editing on my Mac.

I can run Vegas Pro in a virtual machine with VMware Fusions or natively using Bootcamp but I haven't used it in about a year. I've been editing with Final Cut Pro X which runs exceptionally well on both my MacBook Pro and Mac Pro. The cameras from most major manufacturers are shooting Apple ProRes 422 natively now acknowledging that the majority of the video community is on the Mac and leaving Windows users to once again agonize for days or weeks on what to do with their camera files. While, I am effortlessly editing Apple ProRes 422 files on my Mac.

I don't miss Windows or Microsoft messing up my computer at all. This whole joke about Windows 10 being free for a year which is now over is laughable. Who would pay for Windows 10 now? Mac OS X has been free since OS X 10.9 Mavericks. So I never pay for an OS upgrades on my Mac, I get a new upgrade every year, and the new macOS Sierra will be free in September. I realize that Apple can afford to do that because they also sell hardware to compensate but the customer experience is that it's always a free upgrade.

So yea, moving to a Mac is one way to rid yourself of Microsoft's blunders. I'm not saying that Apple is perfect (no software company is) but I would never return to using Windows after my experience with running OS X on a Mac for the last 5 years.

~jr
JJKizak wrote on 8/7/2016, 10:15 AM
My Windows 10 free version updated Windows 7 Pro 32 bit and is rock solid. I didn't lose anything except Security Essentials and the Update icon which was assimilated into Windows defender. The only other item was Vegas pro 11 display menus which I had to set in Vegas and use that setting every time I open Vegas. DVD A worked just fine. I didn't lose any "E" mails, favorites, or network settings.
JJK
Cliff Etzel wrote on 8/7/2016, 2:49 PM
That's beginning to be my experience JR - I've reinstalled my apps and a large project I started in PPro CS6 will now not recognize my video clips properly - even though they will play fine in Vegas Pro 13. If I relink them, it deletes the video portion and only shows the audio - WTH!?

This is where I throw my hands up in the air and say I've had it. At least with a MAC, OSX and Final Cut Pro X, you can just get your work done. I'm no longer willing to "tinker" with my pooter - I just need to get my work done and Windows seems to have failed miserably on this - but the challenge is of course finding the fundage to make the massive shift since it means getting not only a computer or 2, but the software needed as well. But this is now becoming a loss of income forced upgrade by Microshaft. I'm going to be shooting a series of videos for another company starting in Sept and need a reliable editing platform - and Windows 10 latest edition isn't cutting it along with any of the offerings on Windows. The sale of Vegas (again), The ransomeware that both Avid and Adobe now impose on independent shooters like myself and TBH, the still unreliable nature of Vegas Pro on my hardware is forcing the move for me to the MAC ecosystem. You're right, they arent' perfect, but at least their closed system just works - and for me anymore, I need that in order to survive in an extremely competitive market.

Looks like I'll be joining you in a platform switch in the next few months - just need to figure out how to get my existing projects done and delivered to clients.
deusx wrote on 8/7/2016, 3:06 PM
>>>The graphics card and motherboard in my Mac is the same graphics card and motherboard that the developers of Final Cut Pro X use on their Mac. There is simplicity in a closed system that has many benefits. I have found that having the ecosystem tied together tightly is definitely a good thing. So yes, while others are wasting their time trying decide what graphics card to buy I am busy editing on my Mac<<<<

Have you considered how much time you may be wasting by being forced to use inferior video cards or inferior programs on you Mac?

How is having choices a bad thing? Or do you just raise you arm and go sieg heil as soon as some guy steps in front of a microphone and starts his bull$hit speech.

Apple is all bull$hit marketing and no substance. If you can't get windows to work it's you not microsoft. Last windows with any kind of problems was probably win98 ( I skipped Vista ). Not a single problem ever since 2000 on probably more than 15 pcs and no tinkering required unless you want to.

If you prefer FCP sure, use it, but please stop the bull$hit about how OSX is better. It is not. It is not more stable than windows ( any version ) and there are at least a 1/2 dozen high end programs that are windows only, programs that will make you look like a wizard to your Mac friends ( really, you can do that???? )
JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/7/2016, 3:49 PM
> "Have you considered how much time you may be wasting by being forced to use inferior video cards or inferior programs on you Mac?"

No, because both my MacBook Pro and my Mac Pro renders AVC/H.264 in Final Cut Pro X faster than Vegas Pro can by a large factor so I'm actually saving time because FCP X makes maximum use of my GPU.

> "How is having choices a bad thing?"

It's a bad thing when you choose a card that the developers never tested with, and nothing works right so 99% of Vegas Pro users who spent $300+ on a graphics card wind up turning OFF GPU acceleration in the end because it messes up their renders. So how is having choice a good thing? I don't have this problem.

I also don't have to ask the questions: "Which GPU card does Vegas Pro work best with" because Final Cut Pro X works best with the GPU that's in my Mac. So I save time by not having to ask these questions on forums. That was the point of my post. Choice is only good when 1) you know what to choose and 2) you choose something that actually works.

When a manufacturer like Sony refuses to recommend graphics cards, and won't even tell you which cards they test with, then you're kind of left on your own in the dark. I don't have that problem with my Mac... again that was my point.

~jr
Former users wrote on 8/7/2016, 4:38 PM
Vegas is the only professional editor that is vague about hardware. Any other editor, Avid, Edius and such are very specific about what video cards work as well as memory, motherboards, etc. and which are recommended. Any others is a gamble.

I used Final Cut 7 on a Mac for several years and I cant' say that I had any fewer problems than Windows does. It crashed, I got the spinning wheel of death at the most inopportune times. Macs work because they use specific hardware. Sony dropped the ball when it went to GPU processing by trying to be friends with everyone.
cbrillow wrote on 8/7/2016, 4:51 PM
I've taken 2 of my 6 Windows 10 machines to the Anniversary Update level, and have a 3rd at 'Anniversary Update +'. (the latest Windows Insider fast-ring version...)

So far, it's a been a smooth ride...
BruceUSA wrote on 8/7/2016, 5:51 PM
I love Windows PC. Never had any issue as far as editing go, crash bla bla or unable to finish a editing job. nada. I can never see my self switching buying a MAC or ever. Why would I want a MAC when I can have the bad ass PC.. While I do not understand why Cliff having so many issues regarding with his Vegas being hang etc. I can not offer Cliff any help. I just want to share my positive experience, Windows and Vegas. I do 10-12 projects a year for a religious organization and my editing is a multi editing and usually about 2hrs long. Vegas always got the job done.
ushere wrote on 8/7/2016, 7:33 PM
my amiga 2000 rocks!

used both win and mac and to be honest they both work apart from when they don't.

if you have a clean uncluttered machine it usually works fine, but all it takes is a wonky bit of hardware or software to have you tearing your hair out and ranting about how awful 'x' is compared to 'y'.
deusx wrote on 8/8/2016, 5:44 AM
Vegas is just one program which by the way has been working flawlessly since version 2 ( for me anyway ) .

What about Fusion? Samplitude?, unfortunatelly discontinued Softimage or 3DS Max? None of which ( fusion may finally be on a mac ) are available for OSX.

When Mac friends saw me using Softimage they thought I was some kind of a wizard from the future. Those imbeciles at Autodesk bought it killed it off, but will hopefully use the tech in Maya

Anyway. Windows works and for me has been working flawlessly since win 2000.
I do not need to tinker with it, but I do have an option of installing the fastest Video card money can buy if I really need to. On a mac there is no such option. They offer you a choice of 2 cards, usually a year old tech and tyou can choose from about 5 programs which could be considered pro.

>>>>>because Final Cut Pro X works best with the GPU that's in my Mac<<<<<

Yes, because they are too stupid or lazy to make it work even faster with faster, more current cards. And that usually also means all my other programs will work slower than they should.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/8/2016, 7:30 AM
> "Yes, because they are too **** or lazy to make it work even faster with faster, more current cards. And that usually also means all my other programs will work slower than they should."

I'm not seeing this. When the new Mac Pro's came out they had the latest AMD Radeon FirePro D700 cards available. And they had 2 of them and Final Cut Pro X took advantage of the dual GPU's. That's the whole point of this conversation. It started with:

"...At least with a MAC, the ecosystem is tied together tightly. And I'm not so sure that's a bad thing."

That's what I was responding to. How many people have asked the question here, "Can Vegas Pro take advantage of my dual GPU's?" and the answer is always NO. When you buy a Mac with Dual GPU's like the Mac Pro, Apples software takes advantage of the dual GPU's. That's the point of having "the ecosystem tied together tightly". Everything works together right out-of-the-box. Apple issued a new version of Final Cut Pro X to take advantage of the dual GPU's in the Mac Pro. So Apple did take the time to "make it work faster". (btw, that was a free upgrade for FCP X users) It's all tightly tied together and that's a good thing.

If someone were to say, "I want to edit 4K video what do I need?" PC users would have a lengthly conversation about what motherboard/CPU/cores/memeory, what graphics card to buy, what display would be needed, how come my desktop icons are too small, etc. I'm sure there would be days if not weeks of research involved. Mac users would say, "buy an iMac Retina 5K and FCP X" and you would be editing 4K in minutes after opening the box and turning it on. Everything you need is right there.

That's the advantage when "the ecosystem is tied together tightly". You may be surprised to know that some people could care less about the latest and greatest GPU. They just want to edit 4K video smoothly and with an iMac Retina 5K you can do that quite easily. I know, I've tried it. With a 5K display, your preview windows in FCP X is a full 4K! (that's worth repeating: the preview window while editing is full 4K because the whole screen is 5K... it's insane)

BTW, I have no hardware deficit. I could put a NVIDIA GTX 980ti in my 2010 Mac Pro but my AMD Radeon HD 7950 is working just fine for me because like Vegas Pro, Final Cut Pro X uses OpenCL which runs best on AMD cards.

This is not a discussion about which platform is better... it's about the advantages of the tight integration of hardware and software that Apple offers which some people like. I get it that you do not, but the original poster made the comment, not me. I was just passing along my first hand experience on the topic.

~jr
Arthur.S wrote on 8/8/2016, 7:40 AM
How tough is it to revert back to your "rock solid" 8.1 Cliff? A royal pain in the......I know, but an easy solution. I've never heard of Windows messing with files on a different drive other than 'C' before, though an IT friend of mine has always advised to disconnect other drives when doing anything serious, so I guess that caution has been caused by problems in the past. I can only relate that so far Win 10 has been a very positive experience for me, but ya have to do what ya have to do to settle your mind. There's nothing worse than unreliable software - especially the OS!
JJKizak wrote on 8/8/2016, 7:54 AM
Windows always has put super secret coding on all of the drives that you cannot access. That's how Windows messes with stuff.
JJK
riredale wrote on 8/8/2016, 11:27 AM
Not aware of any special secret code that Windows puts on hard drives. I'd been advised to disconnect non-C hard drives when I was doing major housecleaning, but only in order to prevent silly operator errors like reformatting the wrong drive. Ouch.

Just like men are from Mars and women are from Venus, some folks will gravitate to the warm cuddly Apple environment and others will go for the wild 'n wooly Windows world. Whatever. I think I've read that Apple's market share in the desktop space is around 10% and no longer growing, but not certain.