OT Lack of professionalism and how it effects this forum

BillyBoy wrote on 4/6/2005, 9:56 AM
Once upon a time this forum was about what its suppose to be about; Vegas. That focus sadly was in the past. Now, more than not, this forum is infested will frequent off topic posts, blatant self promoting, endless injection of copyright issues in thread after thread, the future of HD and other peripheral topics that has caused this forum to get more noisy. If Vegas is mentioned at all its frequently about what's wished for in some future release. The friendliness and willingness to help each other is being replaced by one or more cliques that think they're better than the rest. Don't you know, they're "professional" implying nobody else is.

Discussion, what the forum is mostly suppose to be about is being replaced by more that want to shout down minority opinions. I don't pretend to have all the answers. That's someone else. I do understand Vegas and video editing in general rather well and frequently I'll offer alternate ideas and solutions. Lately, every time I express an opinion, I get attacked. After awhile it gets old. Different opinions are a good thing. Everyone thinking alike leads to boring cookie cutter results.

Since I have no agenda in posting here other than to try to help unlike someone else that uses this forum constantly to sell books, tapes and promote himself, I will cut back on my comments since it now seems everytime I express an opinion regardless of topic it often results in noise coming from one camp that fancies itself more "professional" then everyone else.

I use to enjoy posting here. Now it seems a few hot heads think they have a right to call me racist or scum whenever they feel like it and that gets old too, so there is little enjoyment left for me if I have to walk on eggshells and nearly ask permission from the "clique" if its ok to express an opinion. So I'll keep more of my opinions to myself.


Cheno wrote on 4/6/2005, 10:10 AM
"So I'll keep more of my opinions to myself."

You keep saying this but you don't act...

I was going to bite my tongue but I don't like the taste of blood.


You've got some great suggestions, some great knowledge but you tend to let too many things get to you. If it bugs you, let it go. As much as that sucks, get over it. You've got some beefs with certain members of this forum and any, ANY topic that may include something they've said or posted or done in a previous life irritates you. GET OVER IT.

If you're gonna wallow in your pity go do it somewhere else. You don't need to keep reminding us that you're gonna go away. Just do it.

Coursedesign wrote on 4/6/2005, 10:11 AM
I'm affected enough by the recent negativity in this forum to stay out of it until after my return from NAB.

It is my perhaps naive hope that the release of Vegas 6 will give people something else to talk about, and perhaps they won't have as much energy left for personal attacks either.

Copyright issues are VERY relevant to me as a producer. I use many kinds of licensed materials and I license others to use what I create.

The future of HD affects me in procurement of new editing work stations to handle this, hopefully using Vegas.

Other production issues are also relevant to me, but it could be argued that they don't belong in a Vegas forum. If this was tossed, I would miss what has been very helpful information in this forum.

I don't mind forum users who mention their own products, as long as this is incidental. I think this has been the case for the people you (BB) are thinking of, as they have put in *innumerable* hours to help other Vegas users. I am certainly grateful for it.

See ya'll at NAB, or after.

B.J. Ahlen

Former user wrote on 4/6/2005, 10:27 AM
I don't think anyone minds opinions, but do like I do, if the topic is offensive or I don't agree with it, I just ignore it. Copyright issues are very important to anybody doing video right now, so it is natural that it is brought up. Why are things like this brought up so often? Because the Vegas software itself doesn't provide much conversation. Why? because it works, because it is very powerful and there are minimal bugs and workarounds required, unlike other popular software.

Now as to being called a racist, when you use terms like CHIEF to someone that you are sure is a Native American, that becomes racial.

Dave T2
wakiyan wrote on 4/6/2005, 10:27 AM
There is one sales pitch that bothers me and thats training videos on Vegas 6 . Now I can't even know for sure what Vegas 6 has in it to base any future plans on . But others already are proffiting from Vegas 6 . What a BLOW . So much for any kind of equallity. < whine Whine Fiddle music >

busterkeaton wrote on 4/6/2005, 12:55 PM

Is this post a joke? Ignore my post if I misread you.

I doubt anyone has profitted from Vegas 6 training materials yet. They have a potential to profit from it.

Almost all software company allows expert or influential users to become beta-testers. It helps them make better software. Working with outside developers and trainers increases the value of the product. The idea that the product is going to be released and at the same time or shortly thereafter, there are going to be training materials and plugins ready is an abosolute net gain for the Vegas user community. It shows the product is healthy, it makes it less worrisome to decide to upgrade. Your future plans for Vegas 6 will begin in two weeks. Seems reasonable to me.
garo wrote on 4/6/2005, 1:48 PM
BB - your rantings and "opinions" are worthless and this last posting was so OT it isn't even funny - or cute - or valuble - or insightfull - except in the self awarness department - scan it - drop it into Vegas and mirror it - print it out and hold it up to a miirror - take a deap breath and read it to yourself. Thank you

Liam_Vegas wrote on 4/6/2005, 1:51 PM
I bet it was a joke.... I bet jon is just showing a natural and totally understable (but fake) frustration of knowing that someone out there has had their hands on the soon to be released V6 before he has.

I think that is an understandable position.

[edit]... I guess I take that back... as Jon just clarified he really was not joking. Huh... very odd opinion.. but interesting way to think about things.. I guess.
BillyBoy wrote on 4/6/2005, 1:55 PM
I was a beta tester for both Microsoft and IBM years back. Rarely is the first release of any software totally "healthy" and frequently in the case of Microsoft is known to be riddled with bugs, many of which the beta testers noticed and reported but got ignored in the rush to get the product out the door. Its such a known problem with Microsoft products many won't buy them until after the first or second 'service pack patch' is released.

Sony and before it Sonic Foundy seem to be head and shoulders above the average software release in the case of Vegas, yet some nagging problems seem unresolved, like the "flash frame" thing.

There's no glamor in investing who knows how many man hours to fix randomly occuring problems not everyone experiences, yet not to fix them or at least find out what's causing them does leave a sour taste in the end user's mouths that experience them.

Healthy is a relative term. If you're one of the unlucky ones that spends hours looking for and then patching a video due to a bug that seems all but ignored by Sony, Vegas for all its other fine attributes is far from "healthy" in your eyes.
wakiyan wrote on 4/6/2005, 1:57 PM
No I was not joking . After reading the following post . http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=376249&Replies=9&Page=1
The site I went to was ready to take my cash for the training video's . So it told me that some beta testers are not only testing for Sony but preparing for their finacial gain . Now for example if I wanted to do my own training dvd on vegas 6 I would be at a disadvantage . Because I'm not privy to the information ahead of time . Thats all nothing more just a simple equallity thing .I just think a couple of weeks after the release would be a little more appropriate for collecting cash and selling on the forum. ( not that I will do a training vid ) Also Niteline already aired video edited with V6 . So I can watch edited V6 but I'm not allowed to now whats in V6 . ( Niteline I assume makes a profit ) So my point is my projects and purchases of equipment, software wich will complement V6 has to wait until I am privileged enough to veiw V6 contents . It's just not equal in my eyes that others can profit while I must wait. It just sucks being a bottom feeder sometimes . Sure this honest opinion of mine will not be veiwed the same by all but it's just an opinion .Don't get me wrong I understand the reality of the situation . I know my place in life . If I am wrong with any facts stated I am more than willing to be corrected .

BillyBoy wrote on 4/6/2005, 1:59 PM
Hey Garo, you find a house broken moose yet?

Time for another reality check:

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From: "garo" <gerrie@glocalnet.net>
To: "BillyBoy" <wvg@wideopenwest.com>
Subject: Get a life
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:29:27 -0800
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your postings are usless trash and ingored by people with credabitlity.


This message was sent via the Sony Media Software Forums.
MyST wrote on 4/6/2005, 2:01 PM
"Don't get me wrong I understand the reality of the situation ."

Obviously, you don't.

John_Cline wrote on 4/6/2005, 2:15 PM

As someone else pointed out some time ago, you can't continually take shots at people and then call the cops when one of these people decides to fire back at you. No one has ever voiced the opinion that they feel the least bit sorry for you.

"it seems a few hot heads think they have a right to call me racist or scum whenever they feel like it"

You keep bring this up like you didn't earn the label, "racist scum." Yes, I "felt like" calling you "racist scum" when you posted a message that everyone agreed was a racial slur toward Spot. You have done it more than once, in fact, as recently as just yesterday. It's in the record Billy and, for some unknown reason, you just don't realize that we all can read and how foolish you are in the eyes of this forum's members for even trying to deny it. All you can do now is own up to it and promise never to do it again.

Regarding your "opinions" I have never argued with you on an opinion. However, when your "opinions" are actually "statements of technical fact" and I know those "facts" to be dead wrong, I will indeed post a message that atempts to set the record straight. Either get used to it or get your facts straight before you post them here on the forum.

p@mast3rs wrote on 4/6/2005, 2:17 PM
That is what beta testing does (giving others a leg up.) Beta testers help the development and bugs of a program and in return they get a sneak peak and use of the program. While it does seem unfair that the training providers get a head start with their product, you have to remember that beta testers are unpaid and generally uncompensated in any way.

If you plan to produce Vegas trainign videos, I would suggest after you get Vegas 6, produce your training materials and when Vegas 7 comes around, you will have credibility with Sony and maybe have a foot in the door with access to the next program.

Furthermore, with regards to Gary's training set that is available for pre-purchase, while true it can be pre-ordered today, isn't due to be shipped until Mid May, AFTER the Vegas 6 release. So if you want to compete in the trainign market, you will have almost an entire month afterwards to offer training to compete with Gary.

Its unfair that some get picked to beta test over others but thats just a reality of life. But it all leads to a better product so I could care less if a hand ful have it befor me. I just wish they would talk about it LOL :0)
BillyBoy wrote on 4/6/2005, 2:29 PM
Fly paper. That's what this thread is about. Just as sure as night follows day, everyone knows Johnny C would of course be unable to stop himself from spewing more of his hatred towards me. I don't hate you Cline. I don't like you either, but again, I just use you, to show the real you. Thanks Johnny for showing us more of your true nature.

Want a fact Cline? You're still a jackass.
Former user wrote on 4/6/2005, 2:36 PM
Why is it important to show the REAL anybody? What is your agenda.

Dave T2
BillyBoy wrote on 4/6/2005, 2:57 PM
I don't have any agenda. Some people hide behind a mask. Sometimes they project a image in the forum that in real life is the exact opposite. I am what I am. Scary huh? As you go through life you learn to spot certain telltale traits. Because of my previous job and almost always the bearer of bad news financially sometimes way into the six figures and beyond, I got very, very good at reading people. Like I said many times, I'm blunt. Very. Scary for some, refreshing for others. I'm used to getting the treatment. Auditors aren't exactly loved either. <wink>
wakiyan wrote on 4/6/2005, 3:05 PM
Mario it pleases me to see your on top of things .

dand9959 wrote on 4/6/2005, 3:17 PM
MUTTLEY wrote on 4/6/2005, 3:23 PM
"Since I have no agenda in posting here other than ... " I think you meant to finish with " instigating and being a general pain in the ass."

BillyBoy, seriously man, find a better use of your time.

- Ray

wakiyan wrote on 4/6/2005, 4:02 PM
Pmasters I have no plans of doing a training Vid . I don't want to compete with anyone . I just had to scale back a project and not go HD because of time constraints . I just don't see the harm in knowing whats in VEGAS 6 before its released . So I could make better informed decisions on projects .
More power to anyone who got an upper hand . My post was only a wimper and a whine with a little fiddle music and V6 envy . It's really no big deal .

farss wrote on 4/6/2005, 4:31 PM
BB's complaint he claims centres around anyone who uses this forum to promote anyhting that is part of a money making venture. That'd hold water if he didn't single out one person in particular.
I'd go further and suggest that a brief trip through history would reveal that the greatest evils ever commited were not motivated by profit. Names such as Stalin, Hitler, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and Gandhi spring to mind. Match up monetary profit against their impact on our world and you'll get the idea.

All of us are motivated by profit, it doesn't have to be monetary gain. Perhaps as an ex auditor he only sees the world in dollars, that's a very blinkered world view, one that's sadly too prelevant in the USA today.

Coming from a very left wing background myself this might seem odd but I've learnt to trust those whose motive is monetary gain way over those who claim to have some altruistic goal, as one of my high school teachers taught me: 'Beware the man with good intentions'.

So where is BBs profit in being here, we all have something to sell, what is BBs, self satisfaction, ego, status, power, amusement, sadistic pleasure?
I'm here for ego and self satisfaction and I have no problem admitting it.
busterkeaton wrote on 4/6/2005, 4:59 PM
I'm here because my religion teaches me that arguing at great distance leads to enlightenment.....

MyST wrote on 4/6/2005, 5:33 PM
LOL Buster! There must be a ton of people in your religion. But hey, don't talk about your religion on this forum OK? ;-)

You can't understand if you came out with a post like that. How do you seriously figure you should be put in the same category as Gary/DSE/etc?
They've worked very hard to gain the respect they now have. You haven't participated a year in these forums, yet you want to have the same consideration as people who have helped Sony a tremendous amount by their continued help to other users.
Why do you think people figured you had to be joking?

Arks wrote on 4/6/2005, 5:44 PM
some people hid behind a mask?? some people hide behind a forum on the world wide web. Like I mentioned before BB; turn off the computer and go outside...enough drama.

better yet, how about all of us replying here stop feeding bully and maybe he'll finally shut up.

my two cents..