Any Suggestions?

Show them your work and then tell them to time it took to make it :)
or
Don't tell them you use Sony and show them your work and when they ask you what you made it with, then tell them :)

j razz

Find the weakness's of their software and constantly show off how easy you can do it in Vegas. Do your homework and know how to choose your contests.
Action speaks louder than words. Usually.

Anyone who has a problem with vegas ,for tasks it is designed for,is out of touch, at one time my splash screen come up with the avid logo , and of course I was editing away in vegas, they had no @#$ clue. Once in a while I'll run into a client who insists on avid ,and say fine, I do have the dv version and will be more than happy to use it, $ per hour, same job will be x hrs in vegas and y hrs in avid ,pick one.
Must be a symphony or media composser or adrenaline or whatever.
Not a problem .i'll rent the machine and it will cost you $$$$$$$ , your choice. No stigma here.

im with winrock here.. i dont like avid but only use it for HD work and even with that its a shitter... profit made with that machine is very minimal compared to what i make with V6...
Its funny, the consumer side of things, theyre all for it when they hear that "we use Sony Media's Editing Systems" (i dont actually SAY Vegas coz it sounds pretty tacky...
The other corp guys dont know much about it, but usually when they see the end product theyre usually dont say anything

A lot of people here don't know what Vegas is. I'm not that bothered anymore. If people judge quality by the editing system someone uses then they aren't the sort of people I want to be working for. They can look at my reel. If they don't like it thats fine, they can walk.

Thanks guys - that helps quite a bit..

I work quite a bit in Acid Pro and I still can't find another application that can touch it for sheer ease of use and performance - and I do ALOT of work on Acid Planet under the name dj ClifMahn. I also publish a website devoted strictly to shooting video underwater (www.uwdv.com) and all I ever get is "Why aren't you on a MAC?" or "Why aren't you using Premiere Pro since you're using a PC?" or "Anyone who is serious should just use AVID".

It amazes me how people can be stuck in their mindsets and not be willing to think outside the box - the first time I got my hands on SONY's software, I knew this was about thinking outside the box.. and I've never really looked back..

Thanks again..

"You should be using a Mac."

I would reply:

"Yeah FCP is pretty good, but I find FCP sooooo slow to work with. Their color tools still aren't as good as Sony's. They are just behind in too many tools. They tried to catch up with FCP5, but they still aren't there."

or

"It takes so much longer to get quality work with FCP. I find I'm much more creative with Vegas, because the workflow is so much better."

This lets them know you are familiar with FCP and have evaluated it and that your choice of Sony Vegas is for POSITIVE reasons, not for reasons, like "well I own a PC."


"I didn't know SONY made software."

I would reply"

"A few years ago Sony bought the most innovative media software company out there, Sonic Foundry. You know that thing that Mac just came out with Garage Band, the one that makes it super easy to make music? Well Sonic Foundry created that software category in 1998. I think Apple hired the same programmer to make theirs."

or

"In a lot of ways, other companies have been playing catch up to Sony's products. Adobe had to rewrite their entire program. FCP is touting featues that Sony had several versions ago."

Let them know that Sony Media Sofware is innovative. If you are in front of you computer, set up a loop and start doing color correcitons/FX as the video plays and let them know you can't do that in FCP.

My attitude would be to reply that FCP is a good tool, it's just not as good as the tool I use. You should know FCP strengths such going out to film (which is probably a different business that what you do) or titling. Don't be MAC hater, PC zealot about it, but just let them know that you use a better tool, but FCP has much more marketing behind it.

What is puzzling is why you are even fretting over it? The whole thing sounds childish.

Tell them you have a Great Dane who will take on their Yorkshire Terrier.

John

ROFL.....

Nice one John...

You can also refer to this site:

http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=10771

Battle of the Software NLEs,
In this first of four installments of the Battle of the Software NLEs, we'll compare five leading tools--Adobe Premiere Pro, Apple Final Cut Pro, Avid Xpress Pro, Pinnacle Liquid Edition, and Sony Vegas--as they performed in three operations essential to pro video editing: Overlay, Chromaker, and Color Correction.

There are 4 parts, but can be difficult to find. (the are not linked together)

Conclusion:
Congratulations to Sony for their top overall score!

Rune

Although you ought to be familiar enough with premiere to speak authoritatively, I think that just the fact that you can get things done more quickly with Vegas speaks for itself.

Rob Mack

I've heard your work on ACID....and so the next question becomes..."If you're serious about making music, why aren't you using Logic or CuBase? Or...."
Same question gets asked about "why aren't you using ProTools?" We have ProTools, sure. But why use it unless you HAVE to if you're happier, more comfortable, more creative, and potentially more profitable using the tool of preference?
Are you a creative user of tools? Or victim of NLE marketing hype and therefore a slave to the technology? :-)

All kidding aside, competition is a healthy thing.

It makes us all strive for something better. Sorry about the dog joke.

John

The difficulty here, I think, is the client's preconception that the tools indicate the capabilities of the artisan, and that certain brands are "the tops". Spot, you've said yourself that an AVID mousepad can be all that's needed to give that sort of client confidence, because they have no idea what they should see on the display. When this topic was raised some time ago I remember that somebody said they had an "old" Mac powered up on the bench purely for impression. One could add FCP and AVID posters. One could put PC boxes under the bench or in cupboards.
The client has few hard requirements: input, output, quality, cost and time. In between is process and it is best to talk and walk process expertly and not resort to naming tools as indicators of expertise (or lack thereof).

All you need to do is set up your workspace with Avid colors (I believe there was a tutorial on that) and tell the morons its Avid. They won't know the difference anyway.

... they aren't the sort of people I want to be working for.

Simon hit the nail on the head. One thing my older brother finally got through my thick head was "You've got to be willing to walk away from the idiots." I have and my life has gotten simpler and the work is far more enjoyable.

I no longer debate, I no longer sell, I no longer fret. If you want us to do the job, we're more than willing and able to do it. If you don't want us to do the job, for whatever the reason, that's fine too.

You've got be willing to walk away. Life's too short.

Agree with many of the comments...it's childish.

As a consultant, I focus on delivery. What format?

It doesn't matter if I use an IBM mainframe or my dual 1GHZ PC to accomplish the final output. I could use either one in most instances(non-video, of course), sometimes both.

If the client insists on using "xxx" tool, then price accordingly.

I'd just laugh at them, and then say you mean you haven't used Vegas yet?!?! - HA - I'm sorry.

Dave

When confronted with Vegas vs. Avid, etc, just smile and remember that people that argue name brand platform over results probably make less off of their rig than their bank does.

Ditto on fldave's last suggestion.

I want a Discreet Smoke!

Now that's an NLE!!!

Snif, it really is that good. But if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it.

It's a real work of art, with absolutely astonishing performance.

Sigh....

:O)

When I get any static on using Nuendo instead of Pro Tools or any other app - I just tell them that standards are for the lowest common denominator and I operate at a higher level and faster pace. I show them that I can deliver in PT native format and close with "I can play their games but they can't play mine".

At the end of the day, you have to demonstrate competence and confidence.

Thanks Spot - hope the style I create meets with your approval.. ;-)

You do raise a good point about the music end of it - I have only tried Adobe Audition and fruity loops and they both have driven me mad trying to do things that are so easy to accomplish in Acid Pro. From what I have heard, Pro Tools is maddening as well. Even tried to use Garage Band on a friends Mac and that drove me mad just on principle... It was a MAC.. ;-)

SONY's apps have allowed me to be a content creator - not a slave to technology - well, it does only run on Windows so I guess I am sort of a slave to Bill and the rest of the boys in Redmond..

I think you hit the nail on the head as well - NLE marketing hype - Adobe and Avid do promote their tools very well and it is difficult NOT to get wrapped up in the marketing hype - SONY should do more along those lines - I seriously think that their products just work better...