We certainly do live in a soundbite and buzzword era now, very sad and I don't think it will pass anytime soon.

In the A/V media development industries and their dependecies on technology, I'm not so sure. I think that there will always be people that will parrot "the party line" (especially with those company's marketing machine strongly behind its propogation - regardless of the reality). But I don't think it will have its current resonance when multi-core machines, OSs, and applications continue to accelerate their capabilities and really come into their own. Two years from now when HD is more commonplace (dare I say ubiquitous? nah...), Windows Vista and MacIntel have leveled off and stabilized, and the "alternative" applications have gotten "into the wheelhouse" of the major/standard applications - then it will be a very different landscape.

Case in point - for those of you who have suffered with Pro Tools - you owe it to yourself to check out the video they just put up on the Euphonix site. It features a buddy of mine - Steve Tushar - who's also the moderator of the Nuendo-post forum. He goes through a bit of the dog-and-pony show he put on at the Editor's Guild building back in February - to a room packed with PT users. After he did a run-through of how he's set up macros in Nuendo and softkeys on the Euphonix to run them with a single button press - there were a lot of dropped jaws, the occasional clapping and laughter, and a lot of mumbling discussion. The demo quickly turned into a PTA (Pro Tools Anonymous) meeting where many stepped forward to "testify" how much they secretly (and not-so-secretly) hated Pro Tools. ;)

I know you guys are really wringing your hands about Vegas, and maybe I should butt out of the conversation since I'm not a video editor. But I wanted to chime in to say 1) you're not alone, and 2) the industry won't be like this forever. This doesn't get Sony Madison or Steinberg off the hook for covering the some of the "expected" functions they might have bypassed in their interest to press forward, but from a broader perspective it bodes well for them and those of us that have "cast our lots" with them and made (what I feel are) the sound financial, technical, and creative investments.

The difference between 8 and 10 bit color is ten bits stores more information so you can get more shades of color. This will look more natural and prevent "banding" in the image.

Check out this page. When it loads the applet try 100 columns instead of ten and hit enter. You'll see why more colors helps.

Here's one question I have for all of you who work with clients. Why on earth are you bringing clients into the edit studio in the first place? I haven't done a ton of works for hire, but when I have, we write into the contract the number of times the client gets to review the project, and agree upon a delivery format for review and final copies. I give them a DVD (or VHS, or whatever) of rough cut, fine cut and final cut, usually with a timecode window burn, and deliver it to their office (or home), at whatever schedule we agree to. They give me paper notes referenced to timecode, I make the changes and deliver a new DVD with edit changes made.

Why would you want a client breathing down your neck in the edit suite, backseat driving and commenting on your choice of NLE software? Why would a client want to waste his or her time doing that when it adds nothing to the final product?

Now, if you're working as an assistant editor in a studio situation, you pretty much have to work with whatever system the studio runs. But if you're freelancing, the only thing that should matter is whether or not the final product meets the agreed-upon delivery specs.

After he did a run-through of how he's set up macros in Nuendo and softkeys on the Euphonix to run them with a single button press - there were a lot of dropped jaws, the occasional clapping and laughter, and a lot of mumbling discussion.

The same thing happens whenever DSE demos Vegas to a roomful of FCP, Edius, and PP users. It's a Freakin' Beautiful Sight, and worth the price of admission alone!

Many clients don't have a view of what they want for the finished project. They want to sit beside while i'm working so that they can see how things shape up as they go and be part of the creative process. Many of them don't know what can be done, so they don't know what to ask for. But while they're watching things happen they can make decisions and supply input.

It's a nasty way to work. If any of my clients had any money, i'd probably charge them 3 times as much for this kind of edit session.

If any of my clients had any money..........
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LOL That's GREAT!

I know EXACTLY what you mean Kelly. Best one today.

John

re: "doing an offline at low res and recapturing the tapes at full res in an online suite"

DV works very well as a low rez format if you are sourcing from Digibeta or HDCAM (including 24p) originals and need to create an EDL for a post house online suite. Using a deck that has DV out (like a J-H3) or using an external box like Convergent Design's...you can:

1) capture all clips as DV, do your edit, including final sound design. At this point you could create a DVD and it'll look very very good, 24p DVD is possible here too if you shot with a Cinealta and can withstand the DV compression hit (you'd be surpised at how good a JH-3 downconverts to DV though).

2) Lay off DV master at this point- you can regitize this at the post house and use the audio if you want (16/48 - it'll be high quality, sync should be perfect), and you can cut over top of the DV video. You might even want to do a source + timeline TC burn at the DV layoff stage - just in case you have some redig nightmare with the timecode- TC will be there visually.

3) Now export a CMX 3600 list (tools menu). Any online room should be able to eat that no problem. Recapture the video, color correct etc. Works.

Most online rooms (including all AVID rooms; FCP is the exception) can also eat an AAF file and re-dig that accurately. If it is an XPRI room, export an .xml file (tools menu)

Tip: If you source is a mix of DF and NDF timecode, or if you have other source TC sketchiness, insert timecode into the frames prior to capture (a deck setting). You'll always have a visual reference to the original source tc, and this will make tracing some recapture problem much more tolerable in a $300/hr suite.

Vegas cannot eat a CMX edl accurately- this is unsupported. Maybe that's what you need, noted. CMX is "still around", but you are limited to only a couple of a/v tracks...and most projects we see have far more than that.

Lastly if you are doing 24p HDCAM offline, this guide should be helpful: http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/download/step2.asp?DID=513

I really like a two monitor window work flow like premiere, fcp, and avid. The bins are nicer in all of those apps. The layout of the windows are nicer.

In Premiere you can open up another monitor window just to have a reference when color correcting.

And whoever said the color corrector was a beast ( I beleive spot did) he's right. Frankly i'm better with the vegas color corrector (and avids)

The adobe color corrector while powerful is confusing from a ui standpoint and its just slow. But it is nice and does its job well.

I still cant imagine why Adobe has not put a velocity curve/speed ramp like feature in premiere pro.

Just for background, i hated premiere for a long time. I thought 1.0 pro was a good start but far lacking compared to vegas. I never thought about using 1.0 at all. You couldnt even safe effects presets...

It shouldnt have been released :) Premiere Pro 2.0 is a different beast. Its really nice and again i've hated premiere for a long time now, since v5 i beleive.

Vegas does have a growing awareness in the world :) I come accross people that hear good things about it and are impressed when they see it, but i always hear this from video guys "I can see its very much an audio like workflow" hehehe

And i think that hurts vegas in some respects. It needs to blend more of the video workflow back into it. Get back to the basics of editing, and making that a better experience.

Brian, I've only been in that situation once, and the client was the "director" and he knew what he and I both were doing.

When clients ask to be present--early on in the process--I tell them that the post costs will be doubled, and I explain why. So far, no one has pressed it. Doubling the cost in post is something they can understand, and it does have an impact!

So far, so good.

Well I live in Madison, WI, where Sonic Foundry is from, and they originally made Vegas Video. When I mention I use Vegas around here I get a lot of "Ahh, Sonic Foundry, cool". Maybe I have a little bit of a geographical advantage, but around here there isn't a stigma against it. If anyone doesn't like it I can just show them how easy it is to use and then I'm sure they'll shut up.

Jay - excellent suggestion - if they want to absorb the costs of buying me new hardware/software - I'll be more than happy to double the cost in post as compared to working in SONY's Production suite.. ;-)

Jay - excellent suggestion - if they want to absorb the costs of buying me new hardware/software - I'll be more than happy to double the cost in post as compared to working in SONY's Production suite.. ;-)
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Cliff,

After all this rambling, the solution still remains simple. Just spray them with some of this.

John

Ah, yes... The ultimate "chill pill."

Also great for removing chewing gum. Just finished mastering a local radio program for CD, "Spotless", all you ever want to know about removing stains and gunk.
Thankfully I didn't have to ask DSE for any help on this one :)

Bob.

So Bob, you were indeed, "Spot-less". ;-)

The buzzword mentality is never going to go away, and it's Sony's responsibility to make 'Vegas' a buzzword.

I can't remember how many times I've seen a product advertised that claimed it "Works with FCP, Premiere Pro, and and many other NLE's." It's Sony Marketing's job to track those manufacturers down and get them to include 'Vegas' wording. It's advantageous for Sony AND the product manufacturer.

This year will be a turning point for Vegas. IMO, if Sony doesn't announce support for DVCPRO, and they don't give new NLE users a reason to choose Vegas over FCP, then they will fall far behind. Especially with the new Windows-on-Mac announcement. That's even got me thinking my next computer will be a Mac.

On that note, here is an interesting article about this dual boot Mac idea. He speculates that future OSX releases will run Windows at the same time as OSX, negating the need to choose an OS at boot.

http://daringfireball.net/2006/04/windows_the_new_classic

What would be the point of running Windows on a Mac? Whatever... I'm never switching and that's final.

Come on man! Drink the coolaid, eat the brownies...
Point?
a) good hardware
b) pretty hardware
c) clients would think you're cool and groovy (or even cooler if you are already cool)
d) everyone in the world (except me) hates Dell
e) it's good for Apple in terms of the market share (and MS needs the competition)
f) can boot to OSX and run FCP and Motion if the need would ever arise
g) edit: it will help remove the "Stigma of Vegas"

I know Macs cost about $1000 more than a similar PC, but over the course of a few years and all being said, the price of the actual computer is really pretty low compared to how much we spend on cameras, decks, monitors, software, grip equipment, etc.

For some of us this makes sense.

............g) edit: it will help remove the "Stigma of Vegas

LMAO

Stages needed to remove the 'stigma of Vegas';

1.) Full timecode handling with no compromise.
2.) Proper project black level handling.
3.) Hardware rendering on something like Axio.

Now, at one point hardware rendering was going the way of the Do-Do. But high def changed all of that. We NEED hardware assistance for such footage, and no amount of telling us it isn't scaleable will change that,.

Here you can see how Mac-hype has been absorbed even by those who should know better. Developing an unthinking-type of fevour in your customers is the hope of every business (including religions). The strength of Mac computers is in the Unix coded software and an OS without vestiges of DOS impediments. The hardware is no better and you're stuck with it -- upgrades mean replacement. They're designed for users who don't want to know what goes on inside or have any wish to interfere with it. Mac leapt ahead of MS by designing a system for just those customers and ensuring that it worked. PCs were designed by nerds for nerds. However eventually MS got the message that most of the market aren't nerds and slowly (ever so) the OS has evolved into something more friendly -- although still carrying a lot of dinosaur genes.
The advantages of PCs are very real. Flexibility of hardware, lower costs, huge inventories of 3rd party software that just isn't written for Mac. All of these concrete advantages made Mac a no-option for me, even when I wanted an NLE and was expertly advised that FCP was the only thing. While I admire good aesthetics I'm too much of an engineer to think the outside is more important than the inside. Now with Macs going dual-boot it means that they can make use of the 3rd party catalogue (removing a huge negative for them). There is little profit in building PCs, but quite a bit in building Macs with dedicated software. You might suggest that MS philosophy is charging for the software and giving away the hardware, whereas it is the reverse for Apple; but I couldn't possibly comment.