blink:

Eh. So? Don't have the kids in it. The PS3 is yours. It is a media center only. I assume you are able to communicate this with your kids. I own a PS3 but we do not have a single PS3 game in the house, why would we, I didn't buy the PS3 as a games machine.

The PS3 does not have 5.1 analogue outputs

This is a surprising statement to me. I am not sure why this is a problem for you. Are you really saying that you have built a home-theater system in your living room with an expensive TV set, expensive movies etc, and you have an amplifier/receiver with no digital audio input? Seriously? Not even an optical input?

and it makes a BOATLOAD of noise

Are you sure you are not talking about the XBOX 360? My PS3 40G is dead silent. It is on, and running at full CPU utilization 24 hours a day (I am running Folding@home) and it makes no noise whatsoever. I am 6 feet away and I can not hear it at all.

Anyway you argue it, BD backers stand to gain more from next gen dvds than the consumer

Really? You mean the same way Chevron benefits more than the driver buying gas for his car? Profit?? I'm a BD backer, can you explain how I benefit more than my clients do? At CES, you'll see vid we put together for a couple corporate clients, delivered on BD. How do we benefit more than they do?

Consumers get a much higher quality image. Consumers get more online options. Consumers get more content, more information, more experience. The BD DVD quality matches the quality of their HDV, AVCHD camcorders. Consumers get (for the first time) a matched experience in media. All things are now equal at production, editing, broadcast, home presentation in terms of image.
Then there is the inane argument about "Now there is only one format to choose from..." News flash!!!! Consumers LOSE when there are multiple choices. It divides content owners, forces retailers to carry double the number of SKUs, and confuses the market. Whether the winner was BD or HD DVD, it was never in the best interests of the consumer nor the studios to have the confusion we've experienced over the past year, just as we experienced when VHS and Beta were battling it out.
HD DVD has the same copy protection options available to the studios as BD does, so that's a horse you can't ride.
As far as what they offer the consumer, why do you care? Consumers have the choice whether to purchase movies in BD or standard def. Sales will determine what the consumer perceives as their value. Sure, it carries a higher price tag. So did DVD over VHS, for a long while. Consumers quit buying VHS just as they'll quit buying standard def. Consumers snapped up HD displays this Xmas. So somewhere, someone out there is "dumb enough" to perceive that they're getting better value. Be realistic. EVERYONE has been talking about HD for the past 2-3 years. Production, editing, broadcast, delivery, archive. OF COURSE the consumer gets something better.
If you can't see a significant difference between SD DVD and Blu-ray, then you've obviously not experienced Blu-ray on a properly matched and calibrated monitor. The difference is stunning and surreal. Like going from 8mm to 35mm.

p@mast3rs:

I am sorry, but what was the purpose of the HD formats? Blu or HD DVD? Wasn't it to bring higher resolution movies to the consumer? Just curious. What did you want in addition? Toasting capabilities?

the consumer doesnt stand to gain that much more than what is offered with DVD currently yet with an extremely increased cost to be a player in the game.

What do you mean by "extremely increased cost"? The cost of high def players is actually very, very low. Much lower than DVDs at this point in their life. Early adopters are always paying a premium, and they paid a much higher premium when they were adopting DVDs than they are now.

why should I care if BD backers make money?

If they are not they are not bringing out any products, and then there is no HD format. I assume you think that moving to a better video format is better. If you are perfectly happy with VHS, I can understand why you don't care one way or the other. Only when the backers make money are you going to get a product that is better. They are in this game for one reason only, to make money.

The problem with the BD chest thumpers is we do not know what the consumer wants as Warner was bought out. The consumer will be left with a choice that is made for them rather than a choice they have made.

The Warner buy-out is a rumor, and I have never seen it substantiated. Interestingly the rumors flying around before Warner chose sides was that they were being offered $300M and more to go with HD DVD but that they turned it down. I see no reason to believe the $500M rumor until I see it substantiated since going Blu exclusively was the only reasonable business move for Warner. They didn't need any incentive.

As I said before, Warner staying neutral or even going HD DVD would have prolonged the format war indefinitely, which means that the consumer would have sat on the fence, hurting everybody. In fact, Warner, in the medium run, probably made a lot more than $500M by choosing sides than they would have by staying format neutral. They'll sell more HD content now.

The consumer will be left with a choice that is made for them rather than a choice they have made.

Well, this is not really true. The consumer chose every day in 2007, and every day they chose Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray out-sold HD DVD every single week of 2007, most of them with a significant margin. That is the consumer choosing.

BD backers stand to gain more from next gen dvds than the consumer and that is exactly why I said it was not a format for the consumers.

If it is not for consumers than it is not for the BD backers. The BD backers couldn't care less which format wins, DVD, HD DVD, Blu-Ray, Downloadable. They only care about making money. Therefore they will give the consumer what the consumer wants. To make money.

Youre missing the point Spot. Backers are the studios behind BD (i.e. Sony, Warner, New Line, etc....) These are companies that will gain more than the consumers.

I dont care who wins the format war. My problem with the format wars is that we will have the studios dictating everything for the consumer instead of the consumer dictating want they want. Thats my problem with the Hi Def wars. My major problem with BD is that they are keeping player prices a bit higher instead of dropping them like HD DVD did. The war was doing one thing important for all consumers and that was forcing both sides to lower the costs of the players. I am convinced had this war gone on another year, next Christmas we would have seen sub $100 players. Now we will see players two maybe three times that price.

I will say one thing about the hi def wars. None of it will mean anything until the players and movies are priced where DVDs are today. The longer it takes for this to happen, the longer it will be until any format will be declared the winner IMO.

By the time that happens, downloads and IPTV will provide consumers with better options, more storage space (determined by the consumer). The reason why Sony is better positioned today than with the VHS-Beta wars was because Sony was no where near as big as they are now. They didnt have the same capital to withstand the fight back then. Times have definitely changed.

Either way, it will be interesting to see how this further plays out. Maybe HD DVD floods the markets now with cheap players and content and sways the battle away from the formats to the consumers. I suppose we will see.

For the videographer the Blu-Ray & AVCHD disk formats are the easiest to work with.
Right now I have about 40 AVCHD disks & a few Blu-Ray disks with many video on them, both in mpeg2 & avc/h264.
For me to remake a new BDMV or AVCHD Disk is so easy, simply copy the compliant files back to my harddisk, pull them into the authoring module and burn a new AVCHD or BDMV disk. It couldn't be simplier than that. The videos are all compliant and passed through the encoder of the authoring programs.
Not to mention you can edit these videos, convert them to standard dvd's and all.

Just try to do this with the HD-DVD disk format. I don't think the EVO container format is geared at all for videographers.

Since this is a video-editing forum I think the Blu-Ray AVCHD & BDMV format has alot to do with how you plan to distribute your work to customers and be productive.

Another feature of the m2ts container method used on the Blu-Ray Disk is you can put more than one video/audio streams in one file/m2ts container. Meaning with the correct playback equipment you could playback more than 1 video or select which video to play. This has many possibilities.
For the videographer & home enthusiast the Blu-Ray Format would be the logical choice over the hd-dvd format.
Not to mention most of us will burn to single layer media, Blu-Ray can hold 10gigs more than hd-dvd on single layer media.

"Eh. So? Don't have the kids in it. The PS3 is yours. It is a media center only. I assume you are able to communicate this with your kids. I own a PS3 but we do not have a single PS3 game in the house, why would we, I didn't buy the PS3 as a games machine."
===================================================
I wouldn't in a million years put a PS3 in my living room. It is NOT what I am looking for. It does not have 5.1 analogue outs (which I PREFER). You can't use the Harmony remote... and yes.... the noise. Here's just a sample of the TONS of people complaining about it:

I have a PS3 (which don't like because of loud fan noise) and also have a Sammy 5000 dual player for about two weeks. Since there probably won't be a great need for the Sammy long term, I may return it and just get another quiet Blu payer. Are there any Blu players that upscale as well as the Toshiba XA2 or as my Sammy 5000? Thanks!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12692889&postcount=43

What I find MOST unfortunate about this whole thing is that (aside from the really high end players) a GAME CONSOLE is about the best machine that the BD side has to offer.... that's just plain silly.

You may like the PS3.... I DON'T.... and I have that right.

Youre missing the point Spot. Backers are the studios behind BD (i.e. Sony, Warner, New Line, etc....) These are companies that will gain more than the consumers.

I can't help but believe you're perpetuating this argument for purposes of entertainment. You can't possibly be this dim.

I dont care who wins the format war. My problem with the format wars is that we will have the studios dictating everything for the consumer instead of the consumer dictating want they want. Thats my problem with the Hi Def wars. My major problem with BD is that they are keeping player prices a bit higher instead of dropping them like HD DVD did. The war was doing one thing important for all consumers and that was forcing both sides to lower the costs of the players. I am convinced had this war gone on another year, next Christmas we would have seen sub $100 players. Now we will see players two maybe three times that price.

Again, I suspect you're arguing for entertainment value. You can't possibly be this dim.

I will say one thing about the hi def wars. None of it will mean anything until the players and movies are priced where DVDs are today. The longer it takes for this to happen, the longer it will be until any format will be declared the winner IMO.

Wrong. It means a lot. Maybe it won't mean anything to you, but clearly, it's meant a lot to the rest of the industry and to a huge number of those consumers that you think are too dumb to understand what they're buying.

By the time that happens, downloads and IPTV will provide consumers with better options, more storage space (determined by the consumer). The reason why Sony is better positioned today than with the VHS-Beta wars was because Sony was no where near as big as they are now. They didnt have the same capital to withstand the fight back then. Times have definitely changed.
Wrong again. Downloads won't enjoy the bandwidth for a while. Same for IPTV. You really need to pay more attention to the industry. We're at least a generation off til these options become mainstream-ready, masses-accepted, and technologically feasible.


Either way, it will be interesting to see how this further plays out. Maybe HD DVD floods the markets now with cheap players and content and sways the battle away from the formats to the consumers. I suppose we will see.
Perhaps

Blink,
With your luck you would get one with a bad fan.
It's simply a bad fan, for the amount of units produced this happens.
Quote from the PS3 Forum:
PS3 Forum

Spot, Gates is a hot topic for many, and the media center to downloading content is believe to be a major future product for MS. MS funded SCO to sue IBM over linux and other forms for Unix. MS and SCO signed a number of agreements aknowledging MS tech in linux network and streaming products. With the collapse of SCO legal claims, some of the tech contracts will have little meaning, but MS has managed to slow many linux and tech products (including the PS3, BR) from months to years for some...... the hardest hit being media center designs and networks. The dust has not settled yet because many companies signed tech aknowledgement deals with MS because they feared IBM and others would lose the legal fight. A lot of software is covered in this issued.

"It's simply a bad fan, for the amount of units produced this happens."
======================================================
That may very well be the case... but then there would have to be an AWFUL LOT of bad fans because it's a pretty common complaint from BOTH game consoles (Xbox as well)

The fact is that there is a lot of controversy on the subject which means it's a problem. You don't hear this complaint from any of the players... be they HD DVD or blu ray. I have also heard at least 4 machines now... displays at walmart, bestbuy....etc, and it's too loud for me thank you very much.

This is neither here or there though... the PS3 is simply NOT what I am looking for or want.

"I can't help but believe you're perpetuating this argument for purposes of entertainment. You can't possibly be this dim.
Studios helped develop the format, studios own the content that is contained on the format, studios invested in the production, marketing, and distribution of the content. How is it again, that they shouldn't gain???"

Gain by putting out a superior product, not buying off studios. This goes for HD DVD as well.

"Wrong. It means a lot. Maybe it won't mean anything to you, but clearly, it's meant a lot to the rest of the industry and to a huge number of those consumers that you think are too dumb to understand what they're buying. "

I seriously doubt that right now. Market penetration is no where near that level at this point for either of the formats.

"Wrong again. Downloads won't enjoy the bandwidth for a while. Same for IPTV. You really need to pay more attention to the industry. We're at least a generation off til these options become mainstream-ready, masses-accepted, and technologically feasible."

Perhaps you are the one being dim here. If the bandwidth inst there, then please explain all of the piracy. I mean seriously, if BD and HD DVD rips can be downloaded without much effort and nearly transparent quality, obviously the bandwidth is coming from somewhere. With rampant claims of piracy, obviously there is a market for this. We have seen in the past the same thing with audio and look at today's offerings.

Again, no one said the studios should not gain but they should be acting in the best interests of the consumer and higher prices now does not reflect that. Furthermore, Sony could have done the same thing I suggested for HD DVD to do. Flood the market so that it becomes the only choice through availability which will translate in to more media sales.

FYI, just because businesses run the way they do, doesn't make it right or fair to the consumer. Its business and that I understand. I just don't have to agree with those practices.

p@mast3rs:

Actually, I think you are missing the point. In a capitalist society, and we're close enough, both sides of a transaction gains. That is the purpose of the transaction. If I buy a movie on a Blu disk for $20 that means that I feel I am getting $20 or better value for that transaction. I gain. And the studio feels that their product is, to them, worth $20 or less, they gain.

My problem with the format wars is that we will have the studios dictating everything for the consumer instead of the consumer dictating want they want.

Seriously? So when the consumer has two formats to chose from, in a war, he has less input into the process than if he has only one format to chose from? How so?

Remember, the consumer, in this case the early adopters, chose Blu-Ray over HD DVD. Most of the time with a pretty decent margin. How does that mean that they didn't have any input into the process?

The war was doing one thing important for all consumers and that was forcing both sides to lower the costs of the players

Again, your logic is deeply flawed, and it also goes counter to actual observed events. Let's take a look at the logic for a second and compare the current situation with the DVD situation of some years ago. Now there are two formats, and according to you that means that the price of hardware comes down. Back then there was only one format, so clearly the price of the hardware would not come down.

Given the fact that DVD players were 20 times more expensive back then then they are now, what does that say about your logic? I think deeply flawed is an accurate description.

Here is another thing to think about. How many competitors did Sony lose with the market going Blu-Ray only? They lost one competitor. A single one. Do you really think that the fact that the fact that one of about 20 competitors drop away will have any impact on the competitive situation?

Oh, and btw, it probably will have an impact on the price of movies, but that's not what you are talking about, is it? Nope.

Now to the problem with reality and your argument. You essentially state that the reason player prices have come down is that we have two formats. Toshiba is the producer of HD DVD players, Sony, Panasonic, LG and the other are Blu player makers. What would happen if one of these, in a competitive situation, massively dropped the price of their player. The others would have to follow, right? That's what competition is.

Toshiba has dropped the prices of their players massively this year. All the way down to $99 at times. How has this affected the prices of Blu players? Not at all. The price of Blu players have gone down in parallel with the price of other Blu players, the Blu camp has essentially ignored the price cuts from Toshiba.

So, your argument is logically flawed and it has no support in the real data. Perhaps there is something wrong with your argument?

None of it will mean anything until the players and movies are priced where DVDs are today. The longer it takes for this to happen, the longer it will be until any format will be declared the winner IMO.

Again, your argument is logically seriously flawed. What you are essentially saying is that the DVD players had to drop to the price of VHS players way back when for the DVD format to become prevalent. Clearly that was not the case. The DVD format was a success long before this.

By the time that happens, downloads and IPTV will provide consumers with better options, more storage space

We will see, it is an intriguing idea and I like it. Particularly since my company makes money out of telcos and others building out huge bandwidth networks. I don't see it happening any time soon though. For a number of reasons.

I have 25 or so HD movies. Encoded well, they take up a rather significant amount of disk space. Assuming they are on average 25G each with everythin, we are approaching about 600G or so of space. I have a lot more DVDs and given the fact that I now can get very close to a movie theater experience in my living room, it seems likely that I will in time acquire more HD content than I currently have SD content. My rate of acquisition is also a lot higher now than it was for DVDs. So, this means that I will very rapidly run into a situation where I will need several terra bytes of storage in my living room. Hard drives are noisy and they run hot. I don't think I will have terra bytes of hard drives in my living room any time soon.

In other words, if I want to "own" these movies, how do you suggest I go about managing them?

Why do you think the DivX format from Circuit City (I think it was) never took off? People like to feel that they own what they buy, not that they have to pay for the same thing over and over again. With online content, you typically have to pay again and again. You can bet your azz that this is the model the studios will want to go for. Do you think that is what the consumer is going to want?

blink3times:

That is your right. I hope you are not making that decision based on religion, that would be sad. Let's look at your arguments.

It is NOT what I am looking for. It does not have 5.1 analogue outs (which I PREFER).

Again, I find this odd. What is wrong with the superior audio out of HDMI or even optical 5.1 that the PS3 has? Why do you "PREFER" an inferior format for audio out? Didn't you buy into the HD format for the superior sound and picture quality?

You can't use the Harmony remote...

Again, this is a highly odd argument. Sony decided, and it as probably one of the wisest decisions in remote design in 10 years, to go with bluetooth for it's remote. As you know, bluetooth is a far superior design than what is typically used for remote controls today, namely infrared light. Bluetooth is not directional in the same way infrared is, in fact you can use your bluetooth remote from a different room with the door closed.

Sony should be praised for driving this, and we can only hope that more and more companies pick up on this trend.

Given your preference for analogue audio and a 30 year old remote technology, do I detect a disdain for superior technologies here? You do realize that when new technologies are brought to the market some times you have to break with older, and less capable technologies, right?

and yes.... the noise. Here's just a sample of the TONS of people complaining about it

No, there are some people complaining about the noise of the PS3 since a few people got PS3s with bad fans. Obviously, the people with the bad fans are going to be the ones speaking out, but given the millions of PS3s sold, a few production problems is expected. Not having them would be astonishing. Sony will replace any PS3 with a noisy fan.

A normal PS3 is almost soundless in a normal living room.

What I find MOST unfortunate about this whole thing is that (aside from the really high end players) a GAME CONSOLE is about the best machine that the BD side has to offer.... that's just plain silly.

The fact that you are stuck on what the label of this player says, seems rather childish to me. If the player suits you for what you need it for, why would you care if it is branded a "games console" a "blu-ray player" or a "magic carpet with a built in sandwich toaster and paint ball gun"? And no, the PS3 is not considered the best Blu-Ray player on the market, in general it is considered middle of the pack.

You may like the PS3.... I DON'T.... and I have that right.

I don't like or dislike technology. I look at it an check if it fits my requirements. If it does I purchase it, if it doesn't I don't. Likes and dislikes based on labels I leave to the children that has not yet grown facial hair.

You clearly have the right not to like the PS3, and you should do whatever suits you. I am just asking the why questions that matter, namely, why do you base your decision on what appears to be wrong information or pure superstition?

but then there would have to be an AWFUL LOT of bad fans because it's a pretty common complaint from BOTH game consoles (Xbox as well)

That simply isn't correct. The fact that the XBOX has a loud fan is widely known, and has been criticized over and over again from the reviewers. Generally the consensus has been that the PS3 is quiet, particularly in comparison. The problem is that the XBOX is loud by design, the PS3 has had a few loud units due to production line problems. That is to be expected. You can have a loud PS3 replaced for one that is not. This is not the case with the XBOX since it is loud by design.

Just to satisfy my curiosity I walked over to my home theater to check it out. Here is what I found.

When everything else is turned off, I can not hear the PS3 at all from 6 feet away.

OK, so let's turn on the other stuff I have. The DVR, the receiver, the Oppo up scaling DVD and the Phillips DVD player (I seem never to throw away stuff, both the players are supplanted by the PS3, but there you go). So, what do I get? The following items all are louder than the PS3 fan:

- The Oppo drive mechanism. In other words, spin a DVD on the Oppo, and it is louder than the PS3.
- The Phillips drive mechanism.
- The receiver fan, but this is close.

The following is not louder than the PS3:

The DVR hard drive.

Again, blink, I fully respect your right to chose whatever you want based on whatever criteria you want, but I do also reserve the right to wonder about your criteria. At the moment your decision seems not to be made on quantifiable, real information but conjecture and "superstition". Since this is a public forum, correcting what appears to be misinformation in your post is therefore my prerogative.

Perhaps you are the one being dim here. If the bandwidth inst there, then please explain all of the piracy.

This isn't that hard to explain. There isn't all that much piracy. Really. Not of HD content compared to SD content. This is increasing, but it is not yet anywhere near that of SD content. I

In addition, downloading HD content using, for example, bittorrent, takes a long time. For popular content, with high quality, days or weeks for most people. Even those of us with decent bandwidth. Streaming it in real time is a long way off. Typical torrent speeds are from 20 to 50 k/s depending on the number of up-loaders. A seriously down-converted 720p movie is going to clock in at 8G or so. That means it will take some 5 days or so to download this inferior content.

Again, this is a highly odd argument. Sony decided, and it as probably one of the wisest decisions in remote design in 10 years, to go with bluetooth for it's remote. As you know, bluetooth is a far superior design than what is typically used for remote controls today, namely infrared light. Bluetooth is not directional in the same way infrared is, in fact you can use your bluetooth remote from a different room with the door closed.
========================================
I have Broadband tv. One of the wonderful abilities of broadband is that I have ONE box controlling 3 different tv's How is this done? Simple... UHF remotes. They're great. I can change the channel outside from the middle of the street if I want. On the down side, it is difficult to incorporate them with other remotes. The moral of this story.... I don't need a lesson on blue tooth remotes. Infra red remotes have their pros/cons, just as UHF or blutooth. The blutooth remote does not meet my needs.

I have PERSONALLY heard 4 different PS3's.... they are loud... end of story.


5.1 analogue is most certainly better than optical, digital both of which live within a restricted bandwidth. And in order to run HDMI (which is not necessarily better than 5.1 depending on what machine you are using) I would have to run a 6 foot cable to my AVR and about 8 feet to my Plasma. Not only would that be expensive but the total length may start causing problems. Obviously you are not too aware of the quality of 5.1 analogue because you will most often find it on the the more expensive equipment. Why do you think it's found on Hi def players in the first place???

From my eyes... the PS3 quite simply sucks. If that hurts or offends you.... oh well!

Blinky, what are you talking about? There is no analog audio on a DVD, HD-DVD or BluRay disc. The quality of 5.1 analog depends entirely on the decoder and the D/A converters whether it's in the HD player or your AVR. HDMI merely passes the digital audio bitstream to your AVR and HDMI 1.3a has plenty of bandwidth to do that.

Speaking of sucking, in my opinion, plasma TVs truly suck. I haven't seen one yet that I could stand to watch for any length of time.

"Blinky, what are you talking about? There is no analog audio on a DVD, HD-DVD or BluRay disc."
==========================================================
Here's a photo of the rear of a blu ray player... take note of the 5.1 analogue outputs. (The 6 rca jacks on the right... FRONT LEFT, FRONT RIGHT, REAR LEFT, REAR RIGHT, CENTER, SUBWOOFER)

You will also find 5.1 analogue outputs on the more expensive Toshiba XA2. It first came on the A1 but they decided to make it an option for the more expensive next gen machines so they are not included on the cheaper A2's

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12689425&postcount=8

5.1 analogue outputs are now coming on the more expensive audio equipment, and it's a great option to have, and the sound is clean, clear and true.

"Blinky, what are you talking about? There is no analog audio on a DVD, HD-DVD or BluRay disc."
==========================================================
Here's a photo of the rear of a blu ray player... take note of the 5.1 analogue outputs. (The 6 rca jacks on the right... FRONT LEFT, FRONT RIGHT, REAR LEFT, REAR RIGHT, CENTER, SUBWOOFER)

You will also find 5.1 analogue outputs on the more expensive Toshiba XA2. It first came on the A1 but they decided to make it an option for the more expensive next gen machines so they are not included on the cheaper A2's

www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12689425&postcount=8

5.1 analogue outputs are now coming on the more expensive audio equipment, and it's a great option to have.
====================
The track is decoded internally in the player and then converted to analog using the player's DAC on those models. The signals are sent through the six RCA cables to the Receiver's analog inputs. The DSP in receivers are only capable of shaping a digital signal. Receivers that have an ADC turn the analog back into digital for processing then back into analog. This option is useful if you don't have HDMI on your receiver. HDMI 1.1 will process an LPCM signal created by the player from the track on the disc and send the LPCM to the receiver where via HDMI input a capable receiver will apply DSP and output analog via the DAC. Some receivers won't process LPCM over HDMI and shouldn't be purchased. Bitstream to LPCM should be identical whether decoded in the player or in the receiver, but the DACs are usually better in the receiver as opposed to the players.
With HDMI 1.3 bitstream is taken from the disc and transported as bitstream to the receiver compressed utilizing the receiver's DAC to decode it. HDMI 1.3 receivers support decoding of all audio formats on all discs including DTS-HD.

John

OK, so they put a surround decoder and some D/A converters in the player. They may or may not be as high quality components as those found in a high-end A/V receiver. Anyway, the audio coming off the disc is digital and has to get converted somewhere.

OK, so they put a surround decoder and some D/A converters in the player. They may or may not be as high quality components as those found in a high-end A/V receiver. Anyway, the audio coming off the disc is digital and has to get converted somewhere.
============
John,

Yes that is what I said albeit in a bit of a lengthy fashion. Post was to further explain your point to Blink.

John

Sorry John, I hadn't seen your post before I posted mine. I like your post better. :)