Out of phase sound problem

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 7/2/2023, 12:52 PM

@xberk

I have my doubts that it would work. I think it swaps the wiring of both the hot leads in the circuit while you want to drive both inputs to the camera with the same signal from the mic.

You could buy one and try it. If it doesn't work, you could open it up and do what I described earlier and use it for that one camera / mic set-up. That would leave your XLR to 3.5 mm adapter in tact for your other cameras. Put a big purple sticker on it to remind yourself what it's for.

john_dennis wrote on 7/2/2023, 1:06 PM

@xberk

Here's a video that describe how to make your own cable.

https://www.google.com/search?q=xlr+to+3.5mm+cable+schematic+diagram&rlz=1C1QMKX_enUS1051US1051&oq=XLR+to+3.5mm+cable+schematic&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBECEYoAEyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigAdIBDDEwMDUzMjhqMGoxNagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e78a769e,vid:Nokbkomj-lc

xberk wrote on 7/2/2023, 1:54 PM

@john_dennis .. This looks like it would work with me buying a soldering gun.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/794030-REG/Sony_EC05X3F5M_EC05X3F5M_Shotgun_Mic_Cable.html

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john_dennis wrote on 7/2/2023, 6:39 PM

No, that cable won't work with your A7-IV as it doesn't have a Male 5-pin XLR connector. You still need 3.5 mm TRS connector on the camera end.

xberk wrote on 7/2/2023, 7:09 PM

@john_dennis .. Rats. You're right. I didn't notice it was 5 pin. So I would need yet another cable to fix that unless we need pins 4 and 5 to make this work.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407855-REG/Hosa_Technology_DMX_306_5_Pin_XLR_Female_to.html

currently have the Mic which is a 3 pin XLR male.  I have the Phantom adapter which has a 3 pin XLR male and female. I have a Female XLR 3 pin to 3.5mm bayonet.

So I'm going Mic male to Phantom Female In and back out from Phantom male to female XLR with that plugging into the Camera's 3.5mm.

I'm confused.

Last changed by xberk on 7/2/2023, 7:19 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

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DMT3 wrote on 7/2/2023, 7:21 PM

Unless you need both channels, (which in some cases you might) I think the one channel track is still your best bet.

john_dennis wrote on 7/2/2023, 7:44 PM

@xberk

Take a look at this device:

Kopul XRSM 3-Pin XLR Female to 3.5mm RA Stereo Mini-Plug Cable (6')

At least one reviewer thinks he was able to get it done with this device.

"... mic on the F-XLR sends a mono signal to both the left and right on the mini-plug end. -B"

Answered by Bruce Aug 4, 2020

xberk wrote on 7/2/2023, 9:22 PM

@john_dennis .. WOW !! .. They describe this as doing what i need for Ten bucks !! .. "used for converting a mono-microphone or a line-level signal to a 3.5mm stereo signal for devices such as camcorders," .. I'll buy it and see if it actually works. HUGE THANKS ..

They have the same cable on Amazon but don't mention converting Mono-microphones, so I'm ordering it from B&H ..

Thanks for everyone! The Vegas Forum. Still the best.

 

 

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john_dennis wrote on 7/2/2023, 10:25 PM

@xberk

I read the negative reviews and one reviewer described the same problem that you experienced.

"NOT good for mono mic to camcorder, DSLR or audio recorder

ByJeff - transom

Verified Buyer

This cable is well-built, and the 90-degree mini connector is convenient for keeping the cable out of the way and reducing strain on the input jack. BUT! This cable does not create a mono-compatible signal. When using this cable to connect a mono microphone to the stereo audio input of a camcorder, or DSLR, or audio recorder, it creates a stereo signal with the right and left channels 180 degrees out-of-phase. The resulting stereo recording will sound (relatively) normal when played back in stereo, but when played in mono, the left and right channels cancel one another out, and the sound disappears completely. Even if the ultimate use will be stereo, out-of-phase audio can be problematic, and shouldn't be used. The problem can be addressed in the editing process by splitting the stereo audio file into two mono files and simply deleting one of them, and only using the left or right channel, panned to the center. But the phase problem is easy to miss when monitoring in stereo, and may only be noticed later in the production process when it's difficult, or impossible to fix. A stereo mix using audio recorded with this cable might sound acceptable, but a mono version (for a podcast or internet stream, for instance) will have silence where this out-of-phase audio is. Additionally, simply checking your audio in the field on a device's built-in speaker, which is often mono, will be impossible: although audio has been recorded, and you'll even see the level meters bouncing, you'll hear nothing on a mono monitor speaker. I'm not sure what situations would call for a cable that results in the left and right channels being 180 degrees out-of-phase. For most field recording situations, this is potentially trouble, so this cable should be avoided."

If you find it's wired the same as the one you have, remember, that I have two solder stations. No one has used a solder gun since the tube days.

xberk wrote on 7/2/2023, 11:20 PM

@john_dennis ..

Don't worry about it John.  I was aware of Jeff's comments that the cable produced audio 180 degrees out-of-phase.  That comment was answered in one of the Q&A's as follows: "If you want a cable that the audio doesn't need to be inverted, then the cables that end with a B (XRSM-15B)...will do the trick.".

I just ordered a XRSM-06B, so hopefully I'll be alright. If not, it still might be useful to have in my kit.  Cheap enough.  No harm done.  

After I get it, I will, of course, test it out and report back here.

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john_dennis wrote on 7/2/2023, 11:26 PM

I found another mfr. that shows the schematic and it looks more likely to work.

Link: Unbalanced XLR Female to 3.5mm TRS Audio Cables with Neutrik Connectors All Lengths Available

 

mark-y wrote on 7/2/2023, 11:47 PM

I found another mfr. that shows the schematic and it looks more likely to work.

Link: Unbalanced XLR Female to 3.5mm TRS Audio Cables with Neutrik Connectors All Lengths Available

 

 

Now that one looks like it should work. @john_dennis @xberk

rraud wrote on 7/3/2023, 9:34 AM

Yes, that should work and would feed the signal (in phase) to both channels of a recording device that has a 3.5mm stereo input. Channel selection could be dual-mono or single-channel mono (left or right).. if the recording device has channel selection options.

xberk wrote on 7/3/2023, 11:15 AM

Would this one work? It's half the price.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZIY06CA/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00ZIY06CA&pd_rd_w=Y9v7Q&content-id=amzn1.sym.0d1092dc-81bb-493f-8769-d5c802257e94&pf_rd_p=0d1092dc-81bb-493f-8769-d5c802257e94&pf_rd_r=J1CRCYYRN29HPKPC7RMT&pd_rd_wg=dPQ6J&pd_rd_r=b3b54fc6-519a-4391-b02f-a2f9c2361f4b&s=electronics&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWwy

 

 

 

Last changed by xberk on 7/3/2023, 11:17 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

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mark-y wrote on 7/3/2023, 11:27 AM

The first one John found is all-metal connectors and presumably more rugged -- it can be repaired on location, while the one on Amazon is a throwaway if something goes wrong. Neutrik connectors are the best available, JMO

john_dennis wrote on 7/3/2023, 12:24 PM

@xberk

I'd probably buy the field repairable one with Neutrix connectors.

As long as the pinouts are the same, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if you saved a few dollars knowing that you won't be using the cable six nights a week on your job.

mark-y wrote on 7/3/2023, 1:11 PM

Just a postscript -- I woke up at exactly 3:42 am, recalling exactly how we began doing this 20+ years ago, using a Passive Direct box connected "BACKWARDS" (ask a guitar player 😮).

Although maybe not necessary in @xberk's case, it has the advantage of almost double the signal voltage to the preamps, eliminating any hiss, and the Ground Lift kills any hum in the mic line.

I was able to go to the storage box and dig out one of the DIs we used, and duplicate the setup we used for camera feeds and monitors, you do need an ordinary f-f gender bender on the mic XLR cable.

https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PDC21-Pyle-Pro-Black/dp/B0027V760M/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=m2n61&content-id=amzn1.sym.dba1a2d0-88dc-4504-a5d7-10259373e587&pf_rd_p=dba1a2d0-88dc-4504-a5d7-10259373e587&pf_rd_r=9FTNGZ6F6K6PSS6CXX4Z&pd_rd_wg=VKoYl&pd_rd_r=792f4244-1c58-486a-9cd5-2f2185228a2b&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_atf_m

 

xberk wrote on 7/3/2023, 1:51 PM

@john_dennis .. @mark-y .. You guys are great. Thanks! .. I ordered some XLR gender changers because I found a cable that should work but I needed to change genders to use it.

Another post script is that these cables will help me put my Rode GO wireless to work on my boom mic. I work alone so no boom operator, just that mono ECM mic on a boom stand. Sometimes the cables get to be a bit much. But now, I think I'll be able to go wireless to the camera using the Rode GO.

Thanks GUYS !!!

Paul B .. PCI Express Video Card: EVGA VCX 10G-P5-3885-KL GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 ULTRA ,,  Intel Core i9-11900K Desktop Processor ,,  MSI Z590-A PRO Desktop Motherboard LGA-1200 ,, 64GB (2X32GB) XPG GAMMIX D45 DDR4 3200MHz 288-Pin SDRAM PC4-25600 Memory .. Seasonic Power Supply SSR-1000FX Focus Plus 1000W ,, Arctic Liquid Freezer II – 360MM .. Fractal Design case ,, Samsung Solid State Drive MZ-V8P1T0B/AM 980 PRO 1TB PCI Express 4 NVMe M.2 ,, Wundiws 10 .. Vegas Pro 19 Edit

mark-y wrote on 7/3/2023, 1:59 PM

 

I would definitely use the DI solution with a balanced wireless receiver output (including yours), the signal gain-before-distortion number is pretty low. Another $12 item in your box that will save your life someday...

xberk wrote on 7/7/2023, 7:10 PM

Just to wrap this up. I got the Kopul XRSM-06B Female XLR 3 PIN TO BAYONET 3.5MM from B&H Photo. It works. Problem solved for $10.

Thanks again guys for all the effort.

Paul B .. PCI Express Video Card: EVGA VCX 10G-P5-3885-KL GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 ULTRA ,,  Intel Core i9-11900K Desktop Processor ,,  MSI Z590-A PRO Desktop Motherboard LGA-1200 ,, 64GB (2X32GB) XPG GAMMIX D45 DDR4 3200MHz 288-Pin SDRAM PC4-25600 Memory .. Seasonic Power Supply SSR-1000FX Focus Plus 1000W ,, Arctic Liquid Freezer II – 360MM .. Fractal Design case ,, Samsung Solid State Drive MZ-V8P1T0B/AM 980 PRO 1TB PCI Express 4 NVMe M.2 ,, Wundiws 10 .. Vegas Pro 19 Edit

mark-y wrote on 7/7/2023, 9:08 PM

Just to wrap this up. I got the Kopul XRSM-06B Female XLR 3 PIN TO BAYONET 3.5MM from B&H Photo. It works. Problem solved for $10.

Thanks again guys for all the effort.


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