Problems with Vegas 18 on i9-13900K using iGPU

mhammann57 wrote on 12/9/2023, 8:43 PM

I recently purchased a new computer with the following specs:

i9-13900K
32GB RAM
Windows 11 Pro
2GB M.2 for C drive
No dedicated GPU - Using Intel iGPU - UHD770

I am using Vegas Pro 18.0 Build 527

After importing my 4K video taken with a GoPro 11, I thought I would be ready to start making my project. Unfortunately, the preview plays extremely choppy even on the lowest quality settings, making editing impossible. Is this because the Intel UHD770 graphics on the i9-13900K CPU is not powerful enough to handle 4K projects? Do I need to invest in a dedicated GPU? Or, are there settings in Vegas 18 that I am unaware of and need to adjust? My old i7-3770K computer was used to create numerous 2.7K video projects using Vegas 16 without a dedicated graphics card. Rendering took quite a while but working on the project was so much better. Previews were smooth as long as the settings weren't on high. I haven't tried a project using 2.7K video clips on this new system. Just thought this new i9-13900K build would handle 4K projects easily. Thanks for any advice! Mark

Comments

NickHope wrote on 12/9/2023, 9:21 PM

More information needed, especially about your media: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/important-information-required-to-help-you--110457/

Dexcon wrote on 12/9/2023, 9:35 PM

The problem is almost certainly due to the 4K video from your GoPro 11 having been recorded in the HEVC format, a much more compressed format than .mp4 (AVC). HEVC support in Vegas Pro is still a work in progress as I understand it - but that is not going to help with your Vegas Pro 18. I recently had a lot of 5,3K video from my GoPro11 really struggle on Vegas Pro 21's timeline and I ended up transcoding all that HEVC video and audio to the more Vegas Pro-friendly .mp4 (AVC).

However, there are a couple of things that you can do or test.

In Vegas Pro 21's Options/Preferences/File I/O (tab), check the 'Enable experimental HEVC decoding' checkbox to see if that improves timeline performance.
Set Vegas Pro to create proxies for the 4K video - but proxies will only be used on the timeline if the Preview Window is set to Draft or Preview.
Transcode the HEVC to .mp4 (AVC). This can be done in Vegas Pro by rendering each video event to another video format of your choosing (via the Render As rendering process). But this would be quite laborious if you have lots of HEVC video as I did. Transcoding can also be done in free transcoders such as Handbrake and Shutter Encoder where I believe bulk transcoding can be done.
Since you've got a well spec'd computer, what about downloading and installing the trial version of Vegas Pro 21 to see if you get a better HEVC experience with VP21.

The GoPro 8 used to have an an option of recording 4K in either HEVC or .mp4 (AVC) but sadly that choice is not available with the GoPro 11 - not that I could find anyway because I'd happily go back to .mp4 (AVC) rather than HEVC.

bvideo wrote on 12/9/2023, 10:05 PM

On my I5-11400 (w/ UHD 730 graphics) using V21-187, my Gopro 12 files play OK in Best(auto), but not across fade transitions. Color gradient effect plays OK, but I haven't tried any other FX. (mp4: HEVC, 4K, 8 bit, 29.97, 45Mb/Sec). Uses 11% CPU & 30% GPU. GPU goes up to 43% when I speed up the event around double and have CG on the event.

Your CPU & graphics exceed mine by far. Are your files recorded at a higher profile (e.g. Mbits/sec or pixel size)?

mhammann57 wrote on 12/10/2023, 2:36 PM

@NickHope - Thank you for the quick reply and links to help me learn how to solicit help on the forum! - Below is the mediainfo, Vegas File Properties, etc.
@Dexcon - I didn't realize that Vegas was not able to use the H.265 HEVC directly from my GoPro 11 without transcoding to H.264. So much to learn. I have lots of clips to edit so batch function is a must. I'll try Handbrake but will probably purchase something like VideoProc AI or WinX HD. Also am thinking about investing in a dedicated GPU like an nVidia RTX 3000 series.
@bvideo - My files are shown below. 4K@60FPS 3840 X 2160 8bit HEVC MP4 Thank you for the advice!

MediaInfo:

General
Complete name                            :GX010051.MP4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 1
Codec ID                                 : mp41 (mp41)
File size                                : 230 MiB
Duration                                 : 31 s 915 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 60.4 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 59.940 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-12-04 19:30:32 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-12-04 19:30:32 UTCVideo
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L5.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 31 s 915 ms
Bit rate                                 : 60.1 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.121
Stream size                              : 229 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : GoPro H.265
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : 2023-12-04 19:30:32 UTC
Tagged date                              : 2023-12-04 19:30:32 UTC
Color range                              : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Vegas File Properties:

General

  Name: GX010052.MP4
  Folder: C:\Users\mhamm\OneDrive\Desktop\Athens Big Fork Dec 2023\GoPro 11 Video
  Type: Intel HEVC
  Size: 285.12 MB (291,958,118 bytes)
  Created: Thursday, December 7, 2023, 2:22:04 PM
  Modified: Thursday, December 7, 2023, 2:22:13 PM
  Accessed: Sunday, December 10, 2023, 1:22:55 PM
  Attributes: ArchiveStreams
  Video: 00:00:38.722, 59.940 fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, HEVC
  Audio: 00:00:38.676, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, AACACID information
  ACID chunk: no
  Stretch chunk: no
  Stretch list: no
  Stretch info2: no
  Beat markers: no
  Detected beats: noOther metadata
  Regions/markers: no
  Command markers: noMedia manager
  Media tags: noPlug-In
  Name: mxhevcplug.dll
  Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 18.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mxhevcplug
  Format: Intel HEVC
  Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532)
  Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.

RogerS wrote on 12/10/2023, 2:44 PM

While VEGAS can open and edit these GoPro files the decoding has issues at present. You could try unchecking legacy HEVC decoding and see if it works better (it may; it uses the Intel GPU more).

At the moment HEVC is going through a lot of changes in VEGAS. I'd suggest trying VP 21 after the next update or two and see if it works well with those files. Generally the UHD770 does a great job with media in VEGAS (I have one!) but there are a few formats where VEGAS is currently struggling.

For batch converting I use ShutterEncoder and do a folder at a time. It's free and reasonably fast.

For a GPU, used RTX 3080 are available in the $400 price range which is excellent for what it is.

Former user wrote on 12/10/2023, 3:16 PM

@mhammann57 I've just been trying a UHD 59.94 Gopro11 clip on VP18 & VP21, it plays in both but it def plays better in VP21, VP18 wants to use my CPU more & VP21 hardly uses the CPU at all, VP18 uses a little of my GPU & VP21 uses the GPU a lot. It's a bit hard for me to show the screen shots because I don't have an Intel CPU & no integrated GPU so it'll prob be different on an iGPU PC..

@RogerS or anyone, this is a the file I used, same info as the OP

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rTreJVRU0ncZBHx2Vn657wx2UYzbMIaE/view?usp=sharing

mhammann57 wrote on 12/10/2023, 3:54 PM

While VEGAS can open and edit these GoPro files the decoding has issues at present. You could try unchecking legacy HEVC decoding and see if it works better (it may; it uses the Intel GPU more).

At the moment HEVC is going through a lot of changes in VEGAS. I'd suggest trying VP 21 after the next update or two and see if it works well with those files. Generally the UHD770 does a great job with media in VEGAS (I have one!) but there are a few formats where VEGAS is currently struggling.

For batch converting I use ShutterEncoder and do a folder at a time. It's free and reasonably fast.

For a GPU, used RTX 3080 are available in the $400 price range which is excellent for what it is.

@RogerS Thank you! Unchecking the "Enable legacy HEVC decoding" in Preferences > I/O solved the problem! I can now edit and use the preview without stuttering etc. even on Best (Full) setting. Outstanding!!! Also thanks for the recommendation for the GPU. May have to save up a bit more for a 3080 but at least the prices aren't what they were a year or two ago. So glad to have this forum!

@Former user Good to know there are others using Vegas to edit their GoPro vids! I've used a GoPro 7 with an i7-3770 & vegas 16 for years. Loooonnnnnggggg renders drove me crazy. Now its back to the learning curve with my new GoPro & i9-13900K build. Having this forum is a big help. Thank you!

john_dennis wrote on 12/10/2023, 5:45 PM

@mhammann57

This entry point in an otherwise long thread shows my experience with my 13900K.

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/system-upgrade-2023--137456/?page=3#ca877137

mhammann57 wrote on 12/11/2023, 6:02 PM

@john_dennis You gave me great advice a while ago when I was contemplating a new build for video editing. It has taken me a while but I finally have a new system. Being a "commercial" user I like the idea of not pushing everything to the max but instead sacrificing a little speed in favor of avoiding burning the hardware up prematurely. I just retired and having fixed income means I need to make this system last. I will have to take a look at my (MSI) bios and see if I can make some of the adjustments to voltage and core temp. Who cares if rendering is 5 or 10% slower. Compared to the 10 hour renders with my old i7-3770K, I can't complain! Thanks again for the help! Mark