Some interesting memory observations and avchd...

blink3times wrote on 4/12/2009, 4:51 PM
Most 32 bit exe and dll files have a 2 gig maximum memory cap. I've been playing around with CFF EXPLORER (free download) which is a program that allows you to easily open the exe or dll and click the 2 gig memory switch that allows it to use more than 2 gig.

I reset the memory flags in
to "greater than 2gig" and did a render of which I almost always crash on (avchd at 1920 render to m2ts 1920@16Mb/s with AC3 audio)

I didn't crash!

In fact memory usage shot up higher than i had ever seen vegas use (it shot up to 5gig and leveled off.... usually it climbs no higher than about 3.5 gig and creeps a little)

The whole render process of avchd seems to be quite a bit more stable I'm now doing a second render test with a few more complicated effects as we speak.... it SEEMS to be doing quite well. I'll do a 3rd render test and throw everything I can think of at it should this one pass.

CFF explorer:


Brad C. wrote on 4/12/2009, 5:35 PM
Considering the fact that I will almost exclusively be using AVCHD, this could be a very useful tool.

I downloaded it, and that's about as far as I got. I'm not exactly proficient when it comes to programs like this. I'm sure I'll understand it eventually.
blink3times wrote on 4/12/2009, 5:47 PM
open the program
goto file\open
then find the file... in this case it would be Vegas.exe
On the left side you'll see "NT HEADER".... "DOS HEADER"... etc
Highlight "FILE HEADER" under "NT HEADER"
On the right side you'll see a chart and in the bottom right corner you will see "CLICK HERE"
Click on that and a check box menu system will open.
Scroll down the menu list until you see "app can handle > than 2gig address space" and check that.
Save the file and close.

Open the others and do the same.


On another note.... rendering stability has CLEARLY and MOST DEFINITELY improved DRASTICALLY
I did lock up once so far (with the plugin pack 3d adaptor) but it was a different lock up/crash that I had ever seen before. The rendering just plain stopped but the program didn't disappear. In fact instead of disappearing, it allowed me to save and close.

This btw SHOULD work with HDV for those that are having issues there too.
Brad C. wrote on 4/12/2009, 6:59 PM
Thanks blink.
MTuggy wrote on 4/12/2009, 7:34 PM
Brilliant Blink. I am running a test render myself after converting the files- this time to WMV-HD format maxed out. So far, so good.

Seems you may have stumbled upon a great solution. I wonder if the Sony team might look at it for Vegas 9 so we don't pull our hair out from rendering crashes.

blink3times wrote on 4/12/2009, 7:56 PM
if you're working with WMV then you may also want to go into
sony\vegas8 pro\fileOI plug-ins\wmfplug3
and modify wmfplug3.dll and see where that gets you.

But remember to do a back up copy of these files before you modify... just in case.

There have been a few dll's that I have modified that have caused problems so be careful
TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/12/2009, 8:10 PM
if I still had my large HD project I'd try this to see if it works. But sounds very promising!
Kevin Mc wrote on 4/13/2009, 2:34 PM
Blink ~ Thanks! This cleared up my crashes while rendering AVCHD clips.
blink3times wrote on 4/13/2009, 2:38 PM
Yeah... I've been pushing the machine pretty hard today with the avchd. A few stumbles but no where NEAR as crash-happy as it was before.
CorTed wrote on 4/13/2009, 3:55 PM
Nice one Blink.
I knew Vegas has memory problems since 8.0 came out.

I think I tried the larger than 2 Gig handle on the Vegas.exe file sometime last year, as somebody brought it up before, but had not tried this on the other ones you listed. May have to give it a try.
Sure hope our friends at SCS are listening........

blink3times wrote on 4/13/2009, 4:08 PM
Actually I brought it up last year.... but I only took it as far as modifying Vegas.exe. It didn't occur to me until yesterday that the file IO plugs are indeed separate entities each with their own 2 gig cap and therefore would require modifying as well.
jabloomf1230 wrote on 4/13/2009, 5:12 PM

Doing this may or may not work as expected. Just setting the Large Address Aware Flag may or may not work right, depending on whether the underlying code in the EXE or DLL can handle it properly. I do like your experiment, though and I'm going to test it out further, just to see if it can be made to work with some other plug ins. Keep in mind that many of the Vegas I/O plug ins were not written by SCS, but rather are third party products. That may explain why they are impacted by the flag.

Did you compare 8.0c and 8.1?

blink3times wrote on 4/13/2009, 5:41 PM
Yes, please do test!

I will say that it does seem to be working for me. Normally I just plain crash when doing avchd, but so far it hasn't happened. I have also seen a rather large increase in the amount of memory that Vegas is using, and the few problems I have had seem to be reacting differently then the way they usually do act. I have not once had one of those "gone in 60 milliseconds" kind of crashes. Seems to be MUCH more stable.

But I would LOVE to have more input and opinions on this.

(no.... have not looked at 8.1 yet.... just 8c)
apit34356 wrote on 4/13/2009, 5:58 PM
Thanks for the tip, blink! Have not tested it and probably won't for a while but I think you have discover a connected between memory management and AVCHD encoder demands. I think de/encoder memory demand being resource limited and thrashing of the cache could easily be the problem of AVCHD crashes. This could easily explain why AVCHD coders could pass extensive simulator testing but fail with different end users..
Xander wrote on 4/13/2009, 6:27 PM
So, the famous blink3times does have projects that crash like the rest of us and these crashes are not hardware related.

That said, I will give this a try next time I have a project that crashes. I have avoided AVCHD like the plague because of the rendering issues.
cliff_622 wrote on 4/13/2009, 6:49 PM
No no no,...this is not possible.

I was told that these render problems were the result of a "hardware/software" conflict and not Vegas' fault.

Are you guys sure you didn't change your video cards or something?

These rendering problems are not "bugs". You guys MUST be fixing something else, outside of Vegas to get these renders to work.

I'm also glad there aren't that many of us that have render problems like these too. (whew)

CT : - )
blink3times wrote on 4/13/2009, 7:37 PM
"So, the famous blink3times does have projects that crash like the rest of us and these crashes are not hardware related."

Never said I didn't (with avchd). In fact if you check past posts you will find that I have stated avchd crashes for quite some time now. It's HDV crashes that I don't have.
blink3times wrote on 4/13/2009, 7:41 PM
"I was told that these render problems were the result of a "hardware/software" conflict and not Vegas' fault."

My stance has not changed if that's what you're suggesting. However I will point out Cliff that the difference between me and you is that I actually get up and try a few things as opposed to laying down, whining, belly aching and swearing at Sony.
cliff_622 wrote on 4/13/2009, 8:44 PM
I dont think I mentioned you in my post. lol
"I was told that these render problems were the result of a "hardware/software" conflict and not Vegas' fault."

My stance has not changed if that's what you're suggesting.."
Umm,..well? technically speaking, every single problem that has ever existed in the history of computers, in some way a "hardware/software"

I'm not belly aching, whining or "swearing" at Sony. (I love Vegas too much to do that) I, like all of us here, simply want this problem fixed.

Discussing problems out in the open in a civilized mannor,..are how we get problems fixed. (as well as help each other)

Vegas is to blame,..and you are finaly helping to prove that fact.

Good job.


blink3times wrote on 4/14/2009, 2:58 AM
"Vegas is to blame,..and you are finaly helping to prove that fact."

I don't ever remember saying it wasn't.... but we've already been down this road haven't we. ;)

This is a possible work around the same as killing cores is a work-around. But adjusting memory flags means this is a "memory" issue just as much as killing cores means it's a "core" issue.

Now, if you would like to test this work-around cliff..... I'd certainly love to have your input, but please.... let's not muck up this thread.
CorTed wrote on 4/14/2009, 8:17 AM
Now Blink, you had to know this kind of respnse was going to come your way. I mean, you have dissed many of the members in the past when they are complaining about crashes, and you send them back to check their hardware as your machine did not have the issue....

At any rate, I think you are on to something here and I like this because I have been yelling memory problems since Sept, 07
I really do not think it is AVCHD problem, but the intense memory required to render and work with the files. I actually can throw enough HDV & SD plus effects on the timeline watch the memory gadget in Vista climb to approx 70%-80% and boom, there goes Vegas.
So opening the App to allow usage of more memory should help, although once you put enough material on the timeline to fill ALL memory, I think you are back to the problem.
SCS needs to fix the software to better manage the available memory.

tumbleweed7 wrote on 4/14/2009, 8:53 AM

Well blink.... I hope you realize, what you've probably done here...

You've gone to the head of the class!... : ) ....

I suppose now, that RobertW will have to look elsewhere, as I'm sure you've replaced him, as an honorary SCS team member..... darn the luck ... : )
jabloomf1230 wrote on 4/14/2009, 9:53 AM
"(no.... have not looked at 8.1 yet.... just 8c)"

You may be wondering why I asked that, as the flag is not present in 64-bit EXEs and DLLs, which by their nature, can use > 2GB of RAM. I asked that, because most of the Vegas 8.1 media I/O plug ins are 32 bit and are identical to those used in Vegas 8.0c.
marcel-vossen wrote on 4/14/2009, 10:05 AM
Thank you very much Blink for sharing this, I'm trying it right now after a new day of hair pulling on a Canon 5D mark II project!

I'll keep my fingers crossed but this sounds very hopefull to me!

Where can I see the memory that is actually used by the DLL's BTW? Don't they turn up in the Task Manager?

I have a quad core i7 machine , should I still set it to use only 2 cores?

If this fixes my problems I am VERY VERY thankful...I'm about to dive into the Adobe suite and throw Vegas out...

I'll keep you guys posted!

rmack350 wrote on 4/14/2009, 2:17 PM
So if I'm reading you right, jabloom, what you're saying is that 8.1 probably also has a few files that need to be made Large Address Aware even though the Vegas executable is already 64-bit.

As long as the files work with that flag set they can get access to 3GB of RAM instead of 2GB. It sounds like that's enough to make a difference - for now. You can expect them to run out of memory again pretty soon I'd imagine. A truly 64-bit executable or dll would probably have access to more than 3 GB of RAM.

One of the things that probably needs to be stressed is that you should be running all of this under a 64bit OS so that real RAM can be made available. Otherwise you're increasing the need for swap space. (If you're running 8.1 then of course you're also in a 64-bit OS).

Rob Mack