Is Bezier a "larger Demand" than storyboarding?

It certainly was for me, and I'm betting for many other Vegas users too. The ability to make complex, key-framable masks will be much more helpful in the kinds of projects I do (narrative) than having a storyboard setup in the Media Pool.

Monica, you seem to have a gripe against bezier curves. Like Jonny, this is a feature I will use everyday it it will save me countless trips to photoshop... Invaluable for me. The new compositing options will allow me to render a lot less than before, invaluable also. Would nested sequences help me ? That's another story ;)...

So, editing, as a combination of different elements, as practicised in cinema more than 100 years now, is "completely subjective".

And then comes Bezier...

>>Just a question, if you permit : Is Bezier a "larger Demand" than storyboarding? If St. is exotic for you or sony why all then the competition uses it? (Edition, PP, FCP, even little Studio).
<<
I don't know whether Storyboarding is exotic or mandatory.

No monica, what's subjective is what Vegas "needs" to be "complete". You've made it clear that Vegas doesn't suit your needs without a specific "Storyboarding" feature - so it isn't a complete solution for YOU. That's what subjective means.

<Perhaps Storyboarding is something that will open the door for Vegas to a completely new group of users that havn't considered us because we lack a complete storyboarding solution

I 100% agree on that with you. why all these bold to our faces?

Well, I hope that puts an end to it.

So, editing, as a combination of different elements, as practicised in cinema more than 100 years now, is "completely subjective".
Yes, it is. It is an approach.

Here is an idea, why not order the media pool according to the timeline. This would give you a story board.

Hunter

>>why all these bold to our faces?
Don't know what you are asking.

<why all these bold to our faces?
Don't know what you are asking.


Why all this bold text/. Are you upset?

Editing, is first of all CUTS, and after that,whatever you wish, corrections, special effects, tweakening etc. I am sorry, this is not subjective. Cuts means STORY, a good editor has to cope with story construction at the first place, he is paid to make a story from the director's vision, or systematic work. After Eisenstein, editing (cuting) took the place of the major film contributor in story development. I suppose that not all of the video editors are nerds enough to spend their entire days only with technicalities, some, especialy in docs and feature movies and videos, are really preoccupied with story development, wich is always capital. We have to deal with important or not important works of art, we are not (only) engineers.

Storyboarding helps visualy this basic need. That why I insist. Some understand the importance of this tool, that's why now is embedded in all major NLEs. Vegas , by neglecting media managment or keepiing it on second range, persits on his origin of an audio application, a tweakening techie thing, very well crafted indeed, stable and mature but lucking the essence of editing, the construction of a story.

Why competition did already understood that? Is only a marketing tool? Sony is a big company, could be better even on that.

>Why all this bold text/. Are you upset?
monica,
He always posts bold. Maybe so we know he's an employee. Most Sony guys have an icon - he's got bold text. I don't think there was any indication that he was upset.

Nope, not upset at all. I use the bold to clearly indicate my responses to specific statements. Easier to read to me.

Never get upset - or at least I try not to<g>.

You have some compelling arguments. There are only arguments for and against the need for storyboarding. They are still - no matter what you say - subjective to me.

You have every right to insist. Others have insisted that many features be included in our tools. Their insistance does not make them right or wrong. They are merely stating needs and opinions on how the tools could be improved. I am all for that.

I agree that storyboarding could be a useful feature. No arguments from me at all.

I will leave this debate at this point. I have heard you and will discuss around here to see what the others think. I am sure they have an opinion already as many have much more experiance here with the other NLE tools out there.

Peter

ok, enough said. Have a nice week end all of you.

I'd respectfully suggest that Vegas isn't the place to be trying to have a storyboard. They're in $69 NLEs because they're damn easy to do in that environment. If you've only got one video track then a storyboard is a snap to do. But how is one going to work when you've got mulitple video tracks?
I still use one of those $69 apps, not because it's got a storyboard but becuase for some of the work I do it's way way faster than Vegas to render, well it doesn't render, just copies the frames. If that's all an app has to cope with then for sure it can run faster than Vegas.
It's simply a case of different tools for different jobs.
Monica should be able to find a quite cheap application that does the storyboard thing for her. That's no sleight on Vegas, nothing wrong with doing the rough cuts in one app, rendering it out and then bringing that into Vegas to add the bells and whistles. is there?

Could someone tell me what a Storyboard is? I've actually seen Storyboards doing audio post for video doing work for advertising agencies. The Story boards, I seen was when the Video editor stepped into the studio and held up a piece of construction paper on it with Pictures glued on it with arrows pointing to the next picture. I've also been handed similar 8.5x11 pieces of paper along with a script and was asked to throw together some audio, so the video editor could go back and make a video that coincided with the storyboard on the 8.5x11 piece of paper. This was all done, just to give the client a basic idea the direction the advertisement was headed. Once we got approval on the idea then video was shot and production of the ad was started. If my understanding of a "storyboard" is correct, then I'm just trying to figure out the limitation in Vegas, where you can't do this already? Seems to me, you just create some pictures,put them in the media pool, throw them up on the timeline and create a storyboard.

In the storyboard I've worked with (studio 8), each clip has a place holder in the storyboard. You just see the first frame of the clip. Transitions can be dropped between the clips on the storyboard. Different from the timeline where you can stretch or shrink the "time" to see more or less of the clip. The storyboard would give me a broader picture of the project with much less detail and less ability to manipulate what was going on within a particular clip.

I am sure Studio 8's storyboard is pretty basic though.

Galen

Red,
what you're describing is a traditional storyboard, a very valuable idea that probably doesn;t get used enough. But with the digital age and being able to easily move images around in a virtual space more is needed.
To give you an analogy in music, and I hope I don't tread on your sensibilities here.
Composer creates a work as sheet music and someone transposes it into a midi file, here you can very easily change things around but if you want a real orchestra to play it you need to get it back into traditional notation, better still if you could edit the traditional notation and have that reflected in the midi file.
So whats being asked for is being able to maybe edit the video to the original storyboard, create a virtual storyboard and shuffle that around and have the video follow it.

Hope that makes sense, sorry if it doesn't.

I'm having such a difficult time finding value in this (storyboard requirment) -- why doesn't one simply shuffe events on the timeline?...

Because on the T/L with a longform project the events are very difficult to find, not Vegas fault, just a fact of life. If you've got a 60 min project trying to find a 5 second event isn't easy. Would help if we had a regional zoom feature but that's another story and it still wouldn't be as usefull as a storyboard. I don't have a need for one but I can see how in many situations it'd be mighty useful.

>Would help if we had a regional zoom feature

Make time selection - right click on it, hit "Zoom Selection"

One comment on comparisons between the importance of storyboarding and bezier masks.

There are several other ways in Vegas to achieve what storyboarding does. (Build a programme)

(And remember, if you storyboarded before shooting and named your clips accordingly, the job would already be done.)

There is no other way in Vegas to achieve what bezier masking does.