There is a lot of information included in this screenshot, so I'll dispense with the commentary until I finish teaching my son to replace his kitchen faucet. By that time, there may be questions from the forum members.
i7-6850 + RX480 combo still not giving full frame rate preview...
What flavour of UHD exactly?
What FX/compositing in your timeline?
What surprises you, if anything, of all those readouts?
"What flavour of UHD exactly?"
Complete name : C:\Users\John\Desktop\A002C012_161120PE_CANON.MXF
Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 7.33 GiB
Duration : 3 min 33 s
Overall bit rate : 295 Mb/s
Encoded date : 2016-11-20 12:52:13.000
Writing application : CANON XC15 1.00
Video
Vegas Pro 13-453 reports the media is decoded in with mxfxavc.dll
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2 Intra@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, GOP : N=1
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame
Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201323001
Duration : 3 min 33 s
Bit rate : 293 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.181
Stream size : 7.29 GiB (99%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Audio #1
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300
Duration : 3 min 33 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 19.5 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #2
ID : 4
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300
Duration : 3 min 33 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 19.5 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Other #1
ID : 1-Material
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Time code of first frame : 00:06:42;28
Time code settings : Material Package
Time code, striped : Yes
Other #2
ID : 1-Source
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Time code of first frame : 00:06:42;28
Time code settings : Source Package
Time code, striped : Yes
Other #3
Type : Time code
Format : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode : SDTI
Time code of first frame : 00:06:42;28
"What FX/compositing in your timeline?"
None
"What surprises you, if anything, of all those readouts?"
This result is very close to my expectation going into this upgrade. My frustration comes from my belief that one can't buy their way to better timeline preview. I considered buying an i7-6900K to meet the Magix recommendation for the minimum processor for 4K, but I don't believe it would have improved the preview. Look at the low utilization of the six cores (+six hyper-threaded "cores"). At 37%, there already seems to be stranded CPU capacity. All six of these cores are pinned at 4,181.2 MHz. Higher than the expected maximum boost frequency.
The average GPU load of the RX480 seems to indicate that the GPU is under-utilized with no effects on the timeline.
The memory is running at slightly >2400 MHz at CAS10.
The single file on the timeline requires 29 MB/s transfer rate. Windows reports that the Intel 750 Series NVMe solid state disk meets that requirement with 0 Response Time delay. I'm sure it's not 0, but I/O is likely not a problem.
All I-frame media is probably easier to decode than long Group of Pictures versions.
These are my observations submitted for peer review.
MediaInfo
General Complete name : E:\0-capture-GH4\20160813-Penang\P1100268.MP4 Format : MPEG-4 Format profile : Base Media / Version 2 Codec ID : mp42 (mp42/avc1) File size : 218 MiB Duration : 19 s 19 ms Overall bit rate mode : Variable Overall bit rate : 96.1 Mb/s Encoded date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Tagged date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Video ID : 1 Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format profile : High@L5.1 Format settings, CABAC : Yes Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=8 Codec ID : avc1 Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding Duration : 19 s 19 ms Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 94.4 Mb/s Maximum bit rate : 106 Mb/s Width : 3 840 pixels Height : 2 160 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.380 Stream size : 214 MiB (98%) Encoded date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Tagged date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Color range : Limited Color primaries : BT.709 Transfer characteristics : BT.709 Matrix coefficients : BT.709 Audio ID : 2 Format : PCM Format settings, Endianness : Big Format settings, Sign : Signed Codec ID : twos Duration : 19 s 19 ms Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Bit depth : 16 bits Stream size : 3.48 MiB (2%) Encoded date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Tagged date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Other ID : 3 Type : Time code Format : QuickTime TC Duration : 19 s 19 ms Time code of first frame : 05:38:45;15 Time code, striped : Yes Encoded date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Tagged date : UTC 2016-08-13 14:43:18 Bit rate mode : CBR
GPU OFF
GPU ON
I laid out my screen a bit differently because the Task Manager has been redesigned in Windows 10. Anyway I get full 29.97fps preview either with or without GPU. I suspect this is because compoundplug.dll is more optimized/efficient than mxfxavc.dll, even decoding long-GOP footage rather than intraframe. It doesn't look like there's a disk-read restriction in your system (right?).
John, if you'd care to share a sample Canon mxf clip I'll give it a go on this system. I'll also attempt to get a sample GH4 clip up for you and others to try but I have less than 1Mbps upload speed so it'll be a while.
Feel free to point out anything notable in my screenshots. I don't open these monitoring apps often so I'm not used to knowing what to look for.
Hi John, I assume you have these two set ... 1. Options > Preferences > Video (tab) > GPU acceleration of video processing. 2. Options > Preferences > Preview Device (tab) > Optimize GPU display performance. The settings are either checked or unchecked.
I'm certain you have the 1st. one set.
As Nick said, if u can supply a short sample for download I can also test it using 4790K, with the same uhd settings in camera that u used for project.
Is the OP working in an 8bit project or 32bit?
I have provided a sample file directly from the Canon XC15 camera.
@ Nick
"It doesn't look like there's a disk-read restriction in your system (right?)."
Based on the Response Time measurement in Windows Resource Monitor from the Intel 750 I'd say No.
I'd like to try media from other cameras such as the GH4 as the XC15 was a rental camera and it's possible that I would buy another camera by the spring.
@JN_
Both the options you mentioned were checked.
@ OldSmoke
This was an 8 bit project.
I get about 18-19fps on playback with the original file and once converted to XAVC-Intra with Catalyst Browse, I get full fps. System spec is in my profile.
I rendered to Sony XAVC Intra from Vegas Pro 13-453 (with No Recompression Required) and the preview stayed about the same. mxfxavc.dll is still used to process the file.
Yes, I had the same observation but when I used Catalyst Browse to transcode it improved.
John I think you got your money's worth with the cpu!
My test using i7-4790K 16gb ram gtx 1080 ...
Both test clips done at preview of BEST FULL ...
Test 1 ... Using your test clip (red car), [MXFXAVC.DLL]
FPS 9-14 min-max, varies.
Graphics card load 9%, varies slightly.
Cpu load 60%, varies slightly.
Test 2 ...
Just to compare with a GH4 4K UHD test clip of mine ...
FPS 25, is PAL region, therefore max possible.
Graphics card load 19-23%, varies slightly.
Cpu load 58-61%, varies slightly.
Test 3 ... Sample .mov 4K uhd clip from a Canon 5DMk. IV, all-Intra [QT7PLUG.DLL].
FPS 6-7%, varies slightly.
GPU load 9-13%, varies slightly.
CPU load 33-34%, varies slightly.
So again the all-intra file, (about 500 Mb/s) has slower fps than the Panasonic (lgop) uhd file. Could the lower FPS playback be more to do with a high data rate? With the 3 examples the higher the data rate the lower the FPS figure. Given different dll capabilities and that intra files should be easier to decode than inter files, still, maybe the most dominant factor is data rate in determining Vegas playback speed?
The Canon file is:
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2 Intra@L5.1
I agree that I got my money's worth with the CPU.
@OldSmoke
I haven't been able to reproduce your results with Catalyst Browse. I have a fresh system image that I can load so I can try, try again.
John I think you got your money's worth with the cpu!
I almost upgraded to that CPU but I am holding back after seeing that it doesn't do much better than my current 3930K @4.3GHz with the Radeon Fury X.
Thank you, OldSmoke. I upgrade my systems every four years whether I need to or not. Since I was using an I7-3770k, it's a reasonable upgrade at this point in time. The motherboard has some newer technologies, too.
The file you converted plays here at full 29.97 FPS.
Mediainfo of Catalyst Browse converted file:
Complete name : C:\Users\John\Desktop\Canon XC15 Sample\Converted in Catalyst Browse\A002C017_1611201N_CANON.MXF
Format : MXF
Format version : 1.3
Format profile : OP-1a
Format settings : Closed / Complete
File size : 281 MiB
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Overall bit rate : 286 Mb/s
Package name : A002C017_1611201N_CANON
Encoded date : 2017-01-13 19:25:58.000
Writing application : Sony Catalyst 1.20
Writing library : Sony MXF Development Kit (Win32) 4.9.1.118.1
Video
ID : 2
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High 4:2:2 Intra@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, GOP : N=1
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame
Codec ID : 0D01030102106001-0401020201323001
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate : 277 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.114
Stream size : 272 MiB (97%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Audio #1
ID : 3
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #2
ID : 4
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #3
ID : 5
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #4
ID : 6
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #5
ID : 7
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #6
ID : 8
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #7
ID : 9
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Audio #8
ID : 10
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, wrapping mode : Frame (AES)
Codec ID : 0D01030102060300-0402020101000000
Duration : 8 s 242 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 152 kb/s
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 spf)
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 1.13 MiB (0%)
Locked : Yes
Other #1
ID : 1-Material
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Time code of first frame : 00:15:07;14
Time code settings : Material Package
Time code, striped : Yes
Other #2
ID : 1-Source
Type : Time code
Format : MXF TC
Time code of first frame : 00:15:07;14
Time code settings : Source Package
Time code, striped : Yes
Other #3
Type : Time code
Format : SMPTE TC
Muxing mode : SDTI
Time code of first frame : 00:15:07;14
This file from the GH4 that Nick shared in the past plays at 29.97fps with bobbles when it restarts. Based on the I/O, I think the whole file is cached.
These are the results from the Panasonic GH5. Only the UHD-60P files would be decoded by Vegas Pro 13-453.
My results from John's Canon XC15 footage:
Original file from John (292MB):
GPU on - 19-21fps
GPU off - 19-20fps
Smart-rendered in VP14 (291MB):
GPU on - 19-20fps
GPU off - 19-20fps
Re-rendered in Catalyst Prepare by OldSmoke (281MB):
GPU on - 29.97fps with dips
GPU off - 29.97fps with dips
Re-rendered in Catalyst Browse 2016.3.0.145 (2.4) by me (292MB):
GPU on - 29.97fps with serious dips
GPU off - 29.97fps with serious dips
Takeaways:
These are the results from the Panasonic GH5. Only the UHD-60P files would be decoded by Vegas Pro 13-453.
Same as in VP14. It seems to be down to the lower frame rate files being 10-bit 4:2:2 AVC.
A side note. After doing test on laptop, had to remove and re-install v14, problem was report of missing dll. Probably just a coincidence, may have nothing to do with test.
Nick where/how is it possible to see/know what dll is being used to transcode/play file? I see you and others note the dll being used.
Nick where/how is it possible to see/know what dll is being used to transcode/play file? I see you and others note the dll being used.
Right click on a file in the Vegas Explorer window and choose Properties and it's at the bottom. Alternatively right click on an event on the timeline (only video or audio stream must be selected) > Properties > General tab. Also described in this FAQ post: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-file-properties--104561/
Thanks.