Let me be the first to side with the "wannabees"!!! :)

I really do appreciate all the pros in here helping us out all the time.

ZOINKS!! I have been reading and watching these threads and kinda wish Sony would have discountinued this post.
BUT... I have to chime in on the "wannabe Zabeeda" shot out by Beerandchips

>. This is precisely why I hate DV. It has put to no nothings in video editing. Everyone who can afford a sub par camera, a computer and this software suddenly think they are proffesionals. Well, that bothers me<

That one kinda hit me in the nads...I mean I'm a relitive newby, my camera IS subpars(saving $$ for a prosumer)but I have had a vision/dream of providing a video product, that until DV and the fast evolution the industry would have been completely unobtainable years ago.
I dont think for a minute I'm a Video Editor profesional,but it's sure nice being able to get advice from them here.Even more so from "chosen ones" who take the time to answer us wannabes just they would their professional peers.
B&C I hope I misunderstood you...cuz I am a wannabe....I wanna be a good/better editor like you and all the others here.Will I ever be as good as you guys that have done it for many years before i started, nope.
Can I still get into the field and learn,I hope so.
[end of rant]

E

I love this place.

Never a dull moment.

It's interesting to me also.

The "anyone can do it now" type statement especially. It's simply the way of capitalism.

I've been a professional drummer since the early 70s, in the early 80s drum machines came along. That reduced the demand for drummers. Were drum machines better than live drummers? Of course not but they are much cheaper and don't come with the baggage of a human.

Then the DJ fad severely reduced employment for live musicians for weddings etc. Are DJs better than live bands? Most would say no but again the same reasons above apply especially the cost.

Then the Karaoke fad took hold. Would most people prefer to listen to drunks that can't sing even when they are sober? I think not. Again the same reasons apply further putting real players out of work.

Add to that computers, loops, sequencers, and now even non musicians can cut severely into the musician's wallet.

Come to grips with it, it's going to evolve even further for video (and most things the PC can do), just be glad it took 20 more years to start affecting you.

The really sad fact is that I've seen a huge reduction in initiative for children to take up playing instruments and other artistic avenues in real-time coupled with school systems cutting costs in the arts seems to me a tragedy for human kind.

MJ

My statements might have been harsh, and I'm sorry for that. My mouth has gotten me in trouble all my life. I stand behind my statements. However, if anyone thinks that I still don't learn something on this site every day, you'd be wrong. None of us ever stops learning. That is why I value this forum. But, sorry, when someone calls me an ass, I say what I think. Like I said before, sour grapes. I'm still going to take advantage of every discount offer I can. BTW, I did NOT get educational price on upgrade to V5. Nobody can. They don't do it for upgrades. On top of that, I use Vegas at work. Why do I use Vegas? Because at work we have FCP and I prefer Vegas. So, I spent my own money to get Vegas so I can use it. I don't charge back my company for using personal equipment either. And, 99% of the work I do on Vegas outside of the office, I don't charge for. Why, because that is my way of giving back. Yeah, I guess your right, I sure do sound like an ass and a jerk rednoll.

sn

You're right MJ about musicians... it's too bad... also for example, one of my customers is a pro bass player for one of the world's best-known pop bands, and he tells me that having 'background tapes' cuts a lot into the leverage and need for live musicians on tour as well..

Well I have a 5yr old daughter, just bought an acoustical guitar to have out and to learn (I've played keys/sax semi pro for almost 20 yrs), and will be buying a clarinet too, to play in front of her, so she appreciates live musicianship .. plus I like playing too, nothing in the world like it!

ken

"Lots of whiners on this site. Get over yourselves. There are a chosen few that aren't wannabees on this site that I respect. The rest are just that. Wannabees that know nothing about this industry. This is precisely why I hate DV. It has put to no nothings in video editing. Everyone who can afford a sub par camera, a computer and this software suddenly think they are proffesionals. Well, that bothers me."

If you hate DV, then I'ld hate to be the one to tell you, but Vegas probably isn't for you. I agree with you that this has put no nothings in video editing. I'll be the first to tell you that I know very little about video and editing it. I do know a few things about audio though, and hopefully as my video knowledge increases I'll find that a lot of my audio knowledge will translate well with the way video works. I'm even having a hard time at this point getting the sub par camera that you mention. The last thing I'ld ever think of myself doing was shopping around for a video camera with the thoughts of being able to transfer it to my PC, do some brief editing and then making my own DVD, to share with my frineds. I worked in a professional recording studio where we did audio and video production for mainly advertising spots. The studio next to mine was one of our video editing suites, where in the down time I would sit and practice Linear video editing with 4 beta SP machines, with a PC and s switcher controler. If I was really lucky I got to go in the video suite with the new $150,000 Avid system and have the luxary of a NLE. You know that was only about 5 or 6 years ago and never would have thought I would be able to buy the equipment myself and get as good of quality working with a few tools at home. Infact the video editor giving me tips probably would have laughed at this notion, saying it would be nearly impossible and you would need some super computer to achieve this task. Well here we are 5/6 years later in the age of super computers I guess, and I too now am a "wannabee" able to edit DV with Vegas. I just hope all these new "wannabe" video editors starting to use Vegas, don't soon start to realize that you can do professional audio recording, mixing and editing with Vegas also, then I too will have to start to be bitter like you because now there will be all these "wannabe" audio engineers running around in these forums.

In fact Chienworks admitted to being a wannabee. Well I find Chien, pretty knowledgable on both the video side and audio side of Vegas, so I would have to actually. have to call him a "wannabee x 2". You know the funny thing is Chien even made his own website with a Vegas forum, so him and all his wannabee friends can hang out and chat together and share stuff. Maybe if you do the same type of thing, then you and your "chosen few that aren't wannabees" can all hang out together and go there to bitch and moan about the good 'ole days and how you use to edit film together with a razor blade and how the "kids these days" have no concept of what real video editing is like.

Have a nice day also B&C..

>>...DV...has put no nothings in video editing...

I guess that would also apply to full-automatic 35mm camera's; remember 110 instamatics? Polariods?

The same could be said about MS Windows, Home Depot as well as the proliferation of Craftsman tools.

I'm sure most of us use at least 3 of these 4, yet I doubt we are all true professionals/know everything's in all of these areas.

Progress is a good thing...except to the illuminati.

... wannabe..? ... pro..? ...me, I'm neither ... don't do any editing at all ...I bought V5 and stretched it over 3 screens and then I call up the babes and they get impressed .... works every time ...

How many f’s in professionals? Sorry, beerandchips, couldn’t resist. I heard just the other day that it was proffesionals that built the Tittanic.

Great to learn that at least some of you Vegas people are pros. Now Spot, he’s not just a pro; he’s a pro’s pro. And ME of course, I’m a pro TOO; seriously, don’t laugh, please; be honest, you all know, admit it: I’m a proo!

But I’m a wannabe too…I wannabe…like…B&C!

Charming I’m sure.

ClipMan, dear fellow, like you I’ve got 3 screens also, and I just ordered another. And of course in Vegas 5b you can do most everything with your mouse! The Babes love that.

Academic Superstore

I Was curious about this Professional Snobbery... We are talking about Vegas and editing ?
Because while there may be Many people here who edit stuff at a semi Pro level... I would imagine there are very few who actually edit in the Professional Industry... People may work in the Industry dont neccesarily edit In the Industry... It amazes me that anyone can think because they work in a pro Environment it somehow means that they can bask in the success of the real pro...
Thats like the Presidents Cleaner being an Authority on Running the Country (Actually Strike that its a good idea) Where the Truth is You are either a Pro editor or your not... In which case your a Wannabee the same as everyone else .
.In fact Pros started as wanabees too... how else do you learn .... In the Professional arena there are a lot of small cogs feeding A Larger whole.... Its all the more amazing then that a lot of semi Pros IE Wedding Videographers ect ..Actually utilise all the Skills needed to make films ..Full credit to them..

I have always found true Professionals at anything never have to prove they are ...They just are

I'm not pro enough, if I can't get the babes here. I've got 4 screens for Vegas on my editing room system...but no babes to impress. Maybe it's cuz I don't use a mouse, i use a trackball with either an 8 ball or 3 ball in it. (Black or Red)

I Have a Babe here... And shes all I need ...Gotta say that Otherwise Ill get hit with Me Camera...Trouble is She keeps tidying up.. I spend half me time trying to find stuff.. I love her.. BUT this "Babes" in EDIT rooms its not all its cracked up to be :)

okay?

I confirmed yesterday (12/14/04) with Academic Superstore that the Vegas/DVDA educational bundle is now only available to schools through a site license. I have not yet received the site license details, but I am concerned about the cost impacts on small schools, like the one I'm associated with.

It's less clear if this new educational site licensing policy will apply to Vegas alone.

---Rob

MJhig
What has always touched a raw nerve in me is the way technology distorts reality in a way that tends to discourage artistic development in youngsters. I used to be a teacher (no, I don't get academic discounts anymore - and they didn't have them when I taught), and even then, stuff on records and TV was phonied up to make the artists appear to perform flawlessly all the time. The recent flap about some singer on TV who got caught lip-syncing because the wrong track was started by mistake - she explained it away by saying that everyone does it - and the audience doesn't want to hear live performance, anyhow, they want to see her, but hear the album. That's a sad commentary on where we've come over the years, IMHO.
I love tweaking audio in Vegas as much as everyone, but am still a capable live performer. There is risk in performing live, and there should be respect for performing live that outweighs any stamped out consistency in the performance. I believe all arts would be better served if audiences were aware and could appreciate those performers who offer live performers as contrasted to those whose "performance" careers are crafted and only exist in some audio engineering studio.
We'd all probably be surprised to know which of the star "performers" really aren't capable of what we hear on their albums.

I used to enjoy watching football halftime shows. Anymore, these days, there is so much other hype fit into halftime, you never see the shows. But I used to cringe when the Orange Bowl would air their show. Every bit of it, the audience, the band, the twinkling lights, all of it was (and as far as I know) continues to be done in a studio. The sound is "perfect", the pick-up is "perfect", of course, as it is not live, but the airing of a studio-produced sound track.

Same is true of the parades. Kids blow and march their hearts out - we only hear what the limited sound setup can pick-up. Stars ride through in convertibles or on floats sounding like a million bucks 'cause they ain't doin' it live.

Gives anyone watching a distorted perception - and can be very discouraging to youngsters who don't understand that the stars share the same lack of perfection that they do.

In that sense, technology tends, in my view, to destroy the very art that it is capable of enhancing.

Try going into a retail store to purchase a minicd player with a mic input - it's almost impossible. Why? No demand. "No one uses these for recording," says the "salesman." He's probably right; "everyone" is busy just downloading mp3's. Why bother to learn to perform.

Ok, I'm ranting, and I'll stop now. BTW, I find it humorous that we've had a comment on how to spell out professional, but no one was bothered by the use of "no nothing." Now, I may not KNOW it all, but, then, again, I think in some ways, I'm less of a know-nothing than anyone here, LOL.

I do love Vegas, enjoy my attempts at perfecting my audio/video editing skills, and, truly love browsing this most helpful forum.

Happy holidays to all.

Caruso

Just for some ironic humor. I saw Academicsuperstore offering Vegas 5 with Adobe Encore for a great price. I pressed refresh several times before I beleived it. hehehe.

I wish Sony could come up with a way to offer Academic disounts. Then just like the rest of us, they buy upgrades. Adobes Acacdemic dicsounct still price the software higher then what they usually ask for upgrades and it seems to be working for them. I started with an academic version and have paid an additional 700.00 US total for upgrades to Photoshop. So they got my money one way or another. But at least the entry fee was affordable.

Okay, I'm going to come at this from another angle.

First, I have to say, you guys are very smart and crucial to the newbies (like me) here. Your knowledge and willingness to share so much of your time is fantastic.

Second, on the point is this thread I have to be a bore and throw out the only word I can think of - and that is naive. I don't mean to insult, far from it but hopefully you'll understand when I've made my point.

I started and ran a software business for 20 years, and I might add, successfully sold it. My son is 16 and we managed to get Vegas 4 from an academic store. Not sure if I'd have gone full price but I just paid $250 from Sony to upgrade to 5 - since I want to learn it and I like the latest versions of "stuff".

Anyway, my point is that every outlet for products and each price is set based on marketing. If anyone sells there products through the academic store then they already know, cater and plan for the fact that a large percentage will go at less cost to those that don't really qualify. Now that Sony has changed it's position, that's just a marketing call. They have perhaps decided their competitors can have that part of their business or have decided their product does not warrant that strategy.

Many Many Many products now won't sell through WallMart since they get so little profit and Wallmart drive the price down. Again, another marketing decision.

My point is, don't get tied up in thinking people are stealing if they are smart enough to get an academic price. If that were the case, Sony and the other would insist on an easier to implement licinging program that could do a much better job of controlling and monitoring the use of their software. The marketing departments plan for every event in their sales budgets including perhaps getting more overall revenue for the life of a product release. In my case I've just paid $250 for the next release - ongoing revenue - marketing works.

just my 2 cents. and THANKS AGAIN for ALL OF YOUR HELP

For the prospective buyers that are interested in joining a group buy for a 10-license package, please list your name at http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=345161

Question: How are you going to confirm that those participating are part of an Academic organisation and thus can "benefit" from the Sony Academic offer? Maybe I have missed something here, but you may wish to inform Sony of your idea and maybe they can assist you in your wish to proved this offer on to what could be total strangers? . .

Best regards,

Grazie

i have a digital video camera that takes mpeg4 videos wen i drag and drop the file into vegas it only comes up with audio however if i compress the file to ms mpeg 4 it works i dont know how this works can somebody tell me how i can fix this or wat program i can use to make vegas read these files
thankyou