Vegas 6 Features -- It's That Time Again...

vitamin_D wrote on 11/12/2004, 1:21 PM

Hey,

Just writing to see if we can stir up some talk about the next major Vegas update before it hits code freeze, as complaining after it's been released didn't seem to get me far last time :D

My personal wishes include:

A skinnable UI, or a button to revert to the Vegas "classic" look of versions 4 and under -- as it stands, I'm generally not one for needing a skinnable interface, but then I can't say I like the choice Sony made for me with the 5 UI, you know, the Hello Kitty Interface...

Better media management -- something I'd assumed was a given for 5, especially all the word play it gets on just about every Vegas related forum, or has gotten in the past. And now I see Frank Capria at DV Magazine cites it as one of Vegas's glaring cons. Take some cues from the better capture and logging utilities out there and go from there.

AAF/OMF/EDL support -- I know it's not going to happen, I just figured I'd put it down for the sake of posterity :) Another Capria con in the recent DV review, incidentally.

Network Rendering -- I can't imagine improvements to the net rendering services will be easy, but at the same time I think it's safe to say they're necessary. While we're on the topic of rendering, something to speed it up in general for Vegas would do a lot for its professional reputation -- hardware support for a proprietary codec, for instance, might not be a bad idea. Again, I'm betting the reason it hasn't happened isn't to a lack of interest from the programming and design team at Sony -- moreso a limitation with the Vegas architecture -- still it's something of a needed area of work.

Official, well documented and easy to understand Decklink support and integration -- I know this has been something on the burner for a while now, but I can't easily get a clear answer as to how well Vegas supports the DL cards, their proprietary rendering services/codecs/etc. This goes for HD support in general -- it's the new buzzword, and while people like BJ_M seem to be happily working with HD and Vegas, the rest of the world needs to know what Vegas can do.

Higher bit rendering engine -- is this at all realistic? Avid has 10bit codecs; AE has a 16bit engine; Is a higher bit render engine in the works, and if not why?

That's it for starters -- anyone else?

- jim

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Comments

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 11/19/2004, 10:54 AM

I've used VT 2 for a few years, that can do it a little differently. You make it all in that project, then select what you want and "create subproject". That seems to me to be a good way to do it, but the ability to "import" a veg file seems to me that it would be a no brainer

I gues my suggestions would be:

1 - nested timelines and/or a subproject option (though in vt2 it fraught with problems)

2 - improved contorl in compositing (you can move the rotation point in cropping but not in 3d alpha. Would have saved me but load of time on a project I did about 2 months ago.

3 - the ability to make a 3d text as well as 2d text

I'm sure there are more, but I've not used Vegas long enough to really know.

(BTW - the afformentioned customizable submenu would be nice along with the easier changes between compositing modes)

FrigidNDEditing wrote on 11/19/2004, 4:00 PM

I'm here to amend my previous statement:

I just did a CTRL drag (slow down) on an audio clip and was abhored at what I heard. instead of doing something like a pitch shift style where the auido was still always there just slowed down, it did some horrible dropping out thing. There may be an option to change this that I don't konw about, but it was not my idea of a good slow down on audio.

So, I say, A BETTER SLOWED DOWN AUDIO ABILITY is on my list of things that should change

PeterWright wrote on 11/19/2004, 4:54 PM

Titler to have the ability to have different letters different colours.

winrockpost wrote on 11/19/2004, 4:58 PM

Track motion presets seems to be an issue to most, hell with 6 how about fixing it in 5 ,along with a few other "bugs" .

JLK wrote on 11/19/2004, 6:07 PM

An upgrade price of $199.00 from Vegas 4 would be nice.

craftech wrote on 11/19/2004, 7:34 PM

As I stated above, after listening to all the complaints about Vegas 5, I am really happy I stuck with Vegas 4 in protest of Sony's not addressing really troublesome basic editing issues from Version 3 and even some from Version 2. I have also read lots of complaints about DVDA 2.0 as well.
If I were Sony I wouldn't fix them either when I have a cornucopia of complacent buyers who will spend $200 + every year in the hope that a new version will address the same old problems only to be disappointed again and again. What did they give you this time, two updates? Now they are ready to hit you for another so-called "upgrade".
I truly don't get it?????

Respectfully,
John

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/19/2004, 8:04 PM

2 updates? What are you thinking of? Lots more than 2 updates. read the list.
Just the audio tools alone were immensely updated, not to mention
Track motion
Bezier curves
Network rendering
Audio hardware implementation
YUV codec
automation
film-style surround
faster editing
nested compositing modes
New MPEG encoder
Flash import
5.1 effects/compression/EQ
Subclips
Downmix
Reverse
layout, docking windows, themes
A lot more, plus a buncha small fixes and upgrades that lots of people probably never see, just that they enjoy the changes in the background.

PeterWright wrote on 11/19/2004, 8:40 PM

Suggestions for more improvements don't have to be interpreted as complaints.

Vegas 5 and DVDA2 are both wonderful programs, both extremely reliable and very well featured.

craftech wrote on 11/20/2004, 5:57 AM

2 updates? What are you thinking of? Lots more than 2 updates. read the list.
===========================
You misunderstood. With all the complaints about Vegas 5 on these forums Sony only had Two Updates before developing Vegas 6. Now the Vegas users have to buy a new version to see if the problems with Vegas 5 were fixed as well as Vegas 4 and Vegas 3. But it isn't going to happen. New features - same old problems. There have been listed numerous basic editing problems since Vegas 2 and 3 that are never addressed such as flash frames, an amateurish credit roll generator and text generator, and audio flatlines to name only a fraction. They aren't going to address them at all if you keep buying a new version every year with dubious new features.
They would have a Vegas 5.0c and 5.0d, etc if you guys would boycott Vegas 6 this time around.

Also, I bet I'm not the only one who would like DVDA versions to be available ALONE without having to purchase Vegas if you don't want to.

You were also forced to "upgrade" to Windows 2000 or Windows XP if you didn't want to when you bought Vegas 5. I have had Windows XP Pro sitting unopened in a box for three years because I like Windows 98SE better especially from a performance standpoint. I have seen enough other posts to know that I am not alone in this either. Many of you have read my hopefully helpful posts when you have posted computer problems here so you know that my shunning of Windows XP does not come from a lack of knowledge. I see no reason why Vegas 5 could not have been developed to work with Windows 98SE "for the others".
So if you bought the line about "It's time to upgrade your computer and it's time to upgrade Vegas 4 to Vegas 5 last time, your disappointment with the unaddressed problems was a pretty costly one considering you only got a year out of it and it's time to dig out the wallet again on a gamble.

Respectfully,
John

winrockpost wrote on 11/20/2004, 6:52 AM

................Sony only had Two Updates before developing Vegas 6

How do you know they have finished with 5 ? Seen nothing from Sony saying a word about 6 , just a bunch of speculation and wish lists on this forum. Developers obviously would be working on future products but I would hope that doesn't mean they ignore existing product issues.

BrianStanding wrote on 11/20/2004, 7:05 AM

I got my money's worth when I upgraded to V5. Subclips alone were worth it to me.

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/20/2004, 7:39 AM

First, thanks for clarifying.
Second, do you know something I don't? That Vegas 5 is done?
Third, why should Sony be backwards compatible, crippling their software to work with an operating system that Microsoft doesn't even support any longer? It's not just Sony, either. Pinnacle, Avid, Adobe, AIST will not run on the legacy OS either. For Sony, it's about offering the best experience possible. Win98sE compatibility can't allow them to do that. Blame Microsoft for upgrading their code, making many things possible. I can think of a strong reason Sony wouldn't make the product backwards compatible. HUGE development $$ for virtually ZERO return. If it costs an additional 50K in engineering man hours, and they only sell say 100 additional copies of Vegas because it supports an antiquated OS, then they've lost money, in a reasonably big way. That's not good economics. That's just plain dumb.
Whether you upgrade or not is obviously your choice, but frankly, you don't know what you're missing. Making a decision to upgrade based on complaints, some of which are valid and most of which are not, is clearly yours. Keep in mind, one major problem with Vegas is the price. Because it's so cheap, it invites people with POS computers built around VIA chipsets, Soho or MTI motherboards, running junk peripherals to use Vegas. These folks are amongst the loudest screamers about bugs. The "professionals" if you will, that have good computers built on quality, reliable, industry-standard parts don't have these problems. Yeah, Track Motion presets is a Sony screwup IMO, but in the scope of things, that's a pretty minor issue. There are other issues as well, but all fairly minor. Sony listens to their users. I'm sure they'll address issues that people have brought up here, where its warranted. However, DON'T expect Vegas 5.xxx or Vegas 6 to be Win98sE compatible.
Regarding the DVD Architect issue, DVDA is fairly dependent on Vegas. So, while I'm sure they could dev it to be a standalone, what's the benefit? Especially if they had to cripple certain functions to make it standalone due to the lack of Vegas?
As it's been said a few hundred times, "If it were easy, everyone would be doing it."

craftech wrote on 11/20/2004, 8:16 AM

Spot,
The issues that have not been addressed in the past three versions are unlikely to be addressed in the next. The W98SE argument is not the central argument here despite the fact that I do not think the additional "expense" is as great as you say. Microsoft's lack of support for the W98 OS is not comparing Apples to apples (pardon the sarcasm).

Maybe they will fix a few Version 5 ONLY bugs....we'll see, but they are not going to fix long the standing problems you have read about on these forums longer than I have. As far as DVDA 2.0 as a standalone. That is not what I am suggesting. Since it is on a separate disk I begged to have it available to upgraders last year. No dice. I don't think that is fair. It certainly would have worked with Version 4. To make the next version of DVDA available to Registered users of Vegas 4 and up won't break the Sony bank.

John

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/20/2004, 8:25 AM

First, I know for a fact that the 98sE issue is a big one. I've been there when it was discussed among the marketing and engineering staff. Do you think Sony LIKED the idea of discluding 98sE users? Or Adobe's, or Avid's, or anyone else? I'm positive they didn't.

You bring up some good points, but what you see as issues, others see as benefits. For me, if the cost of getting 3D planes in Vegas was losing track motion presets, I can deal with that. Others can't.
Regarding DVDA, I don't agree with you, but I certainly can see how you'd feel that way. If I hadn't upgraded to Vegas 5, I'd surely want DVDA 2 as well. But the apps are made to be inter-dependent. Sony wants to pick up $$ where they can. But there is a point of diminishing returns. It may well be that the license issued Sony by Main Concept for 5 didn't/couldn't carry over for 4. Keep in mind, I've been in a lot of these discussions, and while I can't speak for Sony, the boys in Madison don't want to alienate anyone. But sometimes, it just can't be helped.

craftech wrote on 11/20/2004, 8:34 AM

Points well taken Spot. Thanks for the feedback.
John

SeaJohn wrote on 11/20/2004, 1:33 PM

First, as mentioned above, these suggestions aren't meant to cut down Vegas, they are just things that would make it even better.

Second, I know this one isn't going to happen, but I'll mention it anyway.

It would be nice to have true audio scrubbing as you drag the cursor along the timeline, a la Premiere.

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/20/2004, 2:36 PM

Holding down the cursor is too difficult while scrubbing?

JJKizak wrote on 11/20/2004, 2:44 PM

Nobody said 7.1, THX, easy how to book of blocks & arrows for complex
editing operations in index form. (Can't remember 75% of the operations and have to fiddle around until it works) , Auto procedure for the dual processor Hyperthreading setup to speed rendering which I thought was really neet but I totally forgot it, automatic color correction frame by frame, automatic Deshaker operation, automatic morphing, automatic noise removal, automatic language creation of
an inputed voice so all of the created words have the sound and harmonics of the inputed voice, possibly recommended hardware for trouble-free operation.

JJK

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/20/2004, 3:22 PM

JKizak,
Tell me more about two of your ideas... I'm interested in what you're going for here.
possibly recommended hardware for trouble-free operation.

Why frame by frame?

Regarding the voice controls, you mean so a person could instruct Vegas by speaking to it, rather than touching the keyboard?

SeaJohn wrote on 11/20/2004, 8:07 PM

Spot said: " Holding down the cursor is too difficult while scrubbing?"

No, holding down the (I assume you meant) CTRL key isn't that difficult, BUT it doesn't do what I'd like. I hate making comparisons to Premiere, but with Premiere, you can grab the cursor and drag it back and forth across the timeline as fast as you want, and you get sound. Vegas only gives you sound up to 4x (or 20x if you have a good sound card and change internal prefs), but even that's not as fast as I'd like.

I realize this would be a major change to Vegas' internals, so I don't expect it to be implemented, but still it would be nice. Maybe Vegas 8.0...

BTW, is there a way to Quote with this forum?

swarrine wrote on 11/20/2004, 9:17 PM

Spot-

The Vegas audio scrub is not the same as Premiere under any circumstances. Premiere wins that one hands down. Premiere scrubs audio in real time, Vegas does not.

swarrine wrote on 11/20/2004, 9:28 PM

It is funny, one of my first posts on this forum was 2 1/2 years ago and on this topic. I only got one answer and it was from vitamin D, the original poster for this thread.

History Lesson: A posting from 2 1/2 years ago. Did anyone listen?
_________________________________________________________
Original Posting Date - March 1, 2002

My top 4 wish list:

Make ripple insert/delete easier to use. Right now it is a pain (too many steps for the most part) and non intuitive.

Scrub audio as well as video by dragging curser on timeline. The arrows/arrow keys are essentially useless and do not allow for any sort of accuracy.

Put audio in the firewire on preview output. It helps to hear it on a monitor, also, as computers get faster, we are not too far away from being able to record from the timeline. Not without audio though.

3D with presets like existing on the program now.

What is your top 4?

Steve Mann wrote on 11/20/2004, 9:41 PM

"BTW, is there a way to Quote with this forum? "

Nope.

Steve Mann wrote on 11/20/2004, 9:44 PM

"HUGE development $$ for virtually ZERO return. If it costs an additional 50K in engineering man hours, and they only sell say 100 additional copies of Vegas because it supports an antiquated OS, then they've lost money, in a reasonably big way. That's not good economics. That's just plain dumb."

It's also a huge invitation to make the product unstable.

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