Vegas 6 Features -- It's That Time Again...

vitamin_D wrote on 11/12/2004, 1:21 PM

Hey,

Just writing to see if we can stir up some talk about the next major Vegas update before it hits code freeze, as complaining after it's been released didn't seem to get me far last time :D

My personal wishes include:

A skinnable UI, or a button to revert to the Vegas "classic" look of versions 4 and under -- as it stands, I'm generally not one for needing a skinnable interface, but then I can't say I like the choice Sony made for me with the 5 UI, you know, the Hello Kitty Interface...

Better media management -- something I'd assumed was a given for 5, especially all the word play it gets on just about every Vegas related forum, or has gotten in the past. And now I see Frank Capria at DV Magazine cites it as one of Vegas's glaring cons. Take some cues from the better capture and logging utilities out there and go from there.

AAF/OMF/EDL support -- I know it's not going to happen, I just figured I'd put it down for the sake of posterity :) Another Capria con in the recent DV review, incidentally.

Network Rendering -- I can't imagine improvements to the net rendering services will be easy, but at the same time I think it's safe to say they're necessary. While we're on the topic of rendering, something to speed it up in general for Vegas would do a lot for its professional reputation -- hardware support for a proprietary codec, for instance, might not be a bad idea. Again, I'm betting the reason it hasn't happened isn't to a lack of interest from the programming and design team at Sony -- moreso a limitation with the Vegas architecture -- still it's something of a needed area of work.

Official, well documented and easy to understand Decklink support and integration -- I know this has been something on the burner for a while now, but I can't easily get a clear answer as to how well Vegas supports the DL cards, their proprietary rendering services/codecs/etc. This goes for HD support in general -- it's the new buzzword, and while people like BJ_M seem to be happily working with HD and Vegas, the rest of the world needs to know what Vegas can do.

Higher bit rendering engine -- is this at all realistic? Avid has 10bit codecs; AE has a 16bit engine; Is a higher bit render engine in the works, and if not why?

That's it for starters -- anyone else?

- jim

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Comments

JJKizak wrote on 11/21/2004, 6:37 AM

To SPOT:
The "equipment hardware" which would be what motherboard, processor, ram, hardrive combinations to use or avoid as there are so many possible configurations and some of them are trouble causers.
But this would seem almost an impossible task to document and constantly update and provide sufficient funding.
The frame by frame color correction as the pro labs do on the fly when converting from film to video and charge extra money for. I don't know how it's accomplished. They charge almost double per hour.
This would save time in breaking up the main clip into small clips to get all of the colors right on older footage. Although a lot of times it has to be busted up anyway for different reasons. Just a thought.
I thought of another one---a resolution tag that pops up if you are
trying to playback a 1080i HDV file on a 720p device---which is what I did with the FX1 HDV files trying to use a DVI connection which is only rated 720p. To say I was red-faced would be appropriate. Your test file was originally WMV which I rendered to 720p but I forgot and it played perfect. One of my dumber stunts.
So you were right on "what the files were played back on".
On the sound, if you have lets say one sentence of your voice recorded then input it to this software that analyzes it then you can punch in any word or words and it uses the harmonics of the inputed voice to create new words that sound just like the your voice that was inputed. I presently take old recordings of lost relatives that were on film and add a sound track to match their mouth movements but I have to bust up the old recordings and re-arrange the words to make sense and maybe some pitch changes also. Of course this may present unpresented legal problems like "I really never said that". If the software was good enough some kind of implant would have to be utilized saying that" this is fake."

JJK

Sullivan wrote on 11/21/2004, 12:49 PM

First, I have to agree I'd like some way to include a chunk of timeline from one project into another. I suppose this is the "nested timelines" others have mentioned. You can achieve this to a limited extent by opening two instances of Vegas and cutting and pasting between them. I want to build slates, credits, and other re-useable segments and then paste them into a new project. In the case of slates and credits, I want to be able to edit the new instance without modifying the original file.

But, if I could name the one thing I find fmost trustrating, I want better editing of a credit roll. As far as I can tell, there's no way to insert or delete items (i.e. lines) in the existing credit roll. Man, I'm just not that good! I forget things. As an alternative, how about importing an external text file into a credit roll object?

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/21/2004, 12:57 PM

You can:
Copy/paste from a text file to a credit roll
Copy/paste from an Excel file to a credit roll
insert or remove lines from credit roll currently

JetDV has this in one of his recent newsletters as well, I assume it's a lot more detailed than my comments here.

Sullivan wrote on 11/21/2004, 2:18 PM

Wow! You just saved me a couple of hundred bucks for the Vegas 6.0 upgrade!

I'm sure that's not true, but thanks anyway ;-)

And I just tried it. Right! "Insert" key inserts a line, "Delete" deletes one. (For others with the same problem and no JetDV).

NickHope wrote on 11/23/2004, 9:40 PM

Here's some more of my wishes. Apologies for any repetition and apologies for my Premiere hangover! Please discuss specifics in the original threads where indicated to keep this thread neat.

Display tooltip of the file name when hovering over an event in the timeline (like Premiere)
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=292469

Ability to quickly jump to instances of media from the media pool (from the media's context menu)
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=292497

Static preview thumnails of rendered video in the video bus track.
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=312138

Import one project into another and allow copy and paste from one project to another without opening 2 instances of Vegas
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=313907

Ability to hear audio preview while scrubbing with the cursor or while spinning the jog wheel on the Shuttle Pro 2
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=317477

Full screen preview
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=313090

Ability to delete linked video and audio event at the same time without changing internal preferences
http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=269089

Ability to pick an AVI on the timeline and render it to a new AVI, ignoring events on other tracks without having to mute other tracks (like Premiere's clip > export)

Rewire (Reason into Vegas)

Thumbnail view in Explorer window

Faster Main Concept MPEG2 encoding speed (the target being CCE)

Grazie wrote on 11/24/2004, 1:07 AM

I may have this wrong .. but I'll have a go ..

1/- I can scrub and hear audio with my CSP

2/- Full screen preview - I use Ext Mon

3/- Ability to delete linked video and audio event at the same time without changing internal preferences - Er .. what's wrong with "Ignore Event Grouping" button or the Ctrl+Shift+U ? Have I got this wrong? I don't go to INternal Prefs .. I may have got the wrong end of the stick here . ..

4/- Ability to pick an AVI on the timeline and render it to a new AVI, - use the SOLO button . .redner to NEw Track OR Render AS?

5/ - Thumbnail view in Explorer window - Well, yes, but I'm now using MS Explorer with my MS INtel Mouse with the Wheel Button as a quick into my files .. I can Drag and Drop files straight onto the T/L AND they then appear in Media Pool . .well they would . .wouldn't they?

.. any good . . ?

Grazie

NickHope wrote on 11/24/2004, 2:24 AM

<< 1/- I can scrub and hear audio with my CSP >>

I'm talking about the smaller aluminium jog wheel in the middle, not the shuttle

<< 2/- Full screen preview - I use Ext Mon >>

I need to preview videos on a laptop on a boat with no TV

<< 3/- Ability to delete linked video and audio event at the same time without changing internal preferences - Er .. what's wrong with "Ignore Event Grouping" button or the Ctrl+Shift+U ? Have I got this wrong? I don't go to INternal Prefs .. I may have got the wrong end of the stick here . .. >>

Don't want to muck with my internal prefs now to test it but I believe by default if you click on either the video or audio component of an AVI, only that component is selected. They are not grouped. Do a forum search on "Event Group Selection" to clarify this.

<< 4/- Ability to pick an AVI on the timeline and render it to a new AVI, - use the SOLO button . .redner to NEw Track OR Render AS? >>

OK but I would love "Render event as" to appear on an event's context menu in the timeline. It would be far fewer clicks and great for archiving trimmed events in bulk when you've finished a project.

<< 5/ - Thumbnail view in Explorer window - Well, yes, but I'm now using MS Explorer with my MS INtel Mouse with the Wheel Button as a quick into my files .. I can Drag and Drop files straight onto the T/L AND they then appear in Media Pool . .well they would . .wouldn't they? >>

I've got the Intellimouse too. What exactly have you got the wheel button set to do in which application?

Grazie wrote on 11/24/2004, 2:39 AM

Hiyah - Yeah I kinda hear you on the points . .

Now, Intel Meeces . . :-

1/- Control Panel

2/- Mouse

3/- Buttons

4/- Wheel Button

5/- Drop OPdwn menu .. Waaaaayyyy at the bottom you'll see "Start Custom"

6/- "OPen Program . . .. "

7/ - "Browse" .. . I've browsed to C:Windows\explorer.exe . Select

. . then back up the tree to Control Panel. You should then have the option to Click/Press down mouse whell and up pops the Explorer .. It's a real boon for me .. AND you get to see the Thumbnails of your vid clips too! And I can drag and plop omnto the T/L . . ONE SHOT! I guess you could alo do Group drags too! .. haven't tried . . hold on .. . Yup . .that works .. The only thing missiing here is the Across Track or Down Tracks with the Ctrl options from Media Pool or Vegas Explorer . .little lost here I think. SEEING the thumbs is the thing I like with MS Explorer . .yeah?

Hope all this helps .. ?

Grazie

farss wrote on 11/24/2004, 3:28 AM

1) Fix Ripple Edit.
2) Lock audio to video for AVIs
3) Proper support for Timecode, particularly during PTT
4) Add ability to lock/freeze a track
That's all I feel is really urgent, any other widgets that others want are fine also but for me I don't need more features I need the ones that should have been working right in V3 to get finally fixed.

Beyond that:
1) Decklink or any other way to ingest 4:2:2 / PTT is pretty pressing, PP looks better by the day.
2) Support for BWF files, common guys I thought this was a DAW with video tacked on.
3) Full HDCAM support via Bluefish.

Perhaps most importantly of all, tells us what minimum hardware we need to do what, I keep hearing these great stories about how far some have pushed this product, to be honest that means nothing unless we know what it takes for us to do the same thing. I'm NOT asking for 3rd party product endorsement, I think we're all grown up enough to be trusted with some info that we make our own judgements about. All we need are base line references, comments like "You'll need a really tricked up PC though...", what the heck does that mean? Should I buy 110V gear and run it on 240V?

Bob.

VMP wrote on 11/24/2004, 4:28 AM

"Retry"/ "Continue" option when vegas is trim-saving a project and stops because the HD is full.
recently I was trim-saving a project ( which took 5 hours)
But at the end vegas just had 40 mb or so too little so it just said "Error disc full... " and stopped fully.
I only had to put one file to other HD and the"disc full" problem was solved. But because Vegas dosent have the "Retry/ Continue" option, the trimming had to start alllll over again ( there goes another 5 hours)....

( this could also be fixed with a Vegas 5.0xx Actually)

NickHope wrote on 11/24/2004, 4:38 AM

OK, thanks for that Grazie. Personally I have "My Computer" in my quick launch area instead. The wheel button on the newer MS wireless mouses is very hard to push. They strenghened the spring cuz they reckoned previously people were clicking it when they meant to scroll. Now the problem is that I tend to scroll a bit when I am trying to push. I don't use it at all and anyway my fingers are too long for it. I think there's a Logitech or something that has a separate little centre button just above wheel. That would be a better idea for me next time.

By the way you could make Explorer open straight into your media folder or whatever if you wanted. Just don't ask me for the exact code right now! :-)

Grazie wrote on 11/24/2004, 6:47 AM

I WANT IT RIGHT NOW! . . ahaha . . g

FrankM wrote on 12/19/2004, 8:47 AM

Sorry for beling late to the postings, but....

I do a lot of shoots using two cameras taping the same event from different angles (wide shot, CU, etc). What I need is an easy way to set up a mock control room where I can preview both timelines in sync and select one shot or the other as the event unfolds, and see the selected shot, exactly like they do in a TV control room.

I'd like an automated assist as syncing the two timelines.

I want to view the cuts/takes/camera shots live as I am selecting from one camera/timeline to the other camera/timeline.

This request should not be all that hard to write software for and will greatly help those of us who use two cameras regularly.

I apologize if this capability is somewhere already in VV and I haven't found it yet. I'm using VV4 and will probably wait until VV6 to upgrade, unless VV6 can do this. ALso, if anyone knows how to do this now, I'd love to read about it. I tried the Search function on all the posts and failed to find anything.

Thanks everyone.

Spot|DSE wrote on 12/19/2004, 9:07 AM

<<<I do a lot of shoots using two cameras taping the same event from different angles (wide shot, CU, etc). What I need is an easy way to set up a mock control room where I can preview both timelines in sync and select one shot or the other as the event unfolds, and see the selected shot, exactly like they do in a TV control room.>>>
Both Ultimate S and Excalibur plugins do this for Vegas currently.

Without genlock, and without matched timecode, there is no means for Vegas to be able to sample-accurately sync your two cameras. You have to do that manually. However, it's very easy to do, and there are a few articles around the web, including on the VASST site, that will help you understand how to do this.

FuTz wrote on 12/20/2004, 8:26 AM

Speaking of Vegas 6 , somebody's got an idea about the release date? Or is it just because they launched Acid Pro 5 and everybody gets excited?

o_o

HPV wrote on 12/20/2004, 10:31 AM

Frank, do a search here for multicam. Vegas is pretty slick at it even without plugins.

Craig H.

Mandk wrote on 12/20/2004, 10:58 AM

I have done a lot of multicam work with vegas (using excaliber) and it is an awesome tool - Haven't tried the ultimate product yet because I have been in my end of the season editing and Dvd preparation and have not had the time.

One of the best things is at the end of the edit, you can look back and say - that looks great and I did it with a $500 program.

To paraphrase Spots Signature - Vegas is incredible.

BrianStanding wrote on 12/20/2004, 1:20 PM

All good suggestions. Can't help with the rest, but I can with this one:

"Ability to delete linked video and audio event at the same time without changing internal preferences."

Go to "Options|Keyboard" and remap the "Delete" key in the timeline context so that it "deletes all in group." Works great!

swarrine wrote on 1/18/2005, 11:24 PM

Just because...

MUTTLEY wrote on 1/19/2005, 1:35 AM

Way to many posts for me to bleed through but if it hasnt been mentioned yet ... MOTION TRACKING !!! I've used another 3rd party with Particle Illusion and I cant tell ya how much I think I'd use it if it were in Vegas.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

zcus wrote on 1/19/2005, 1:45 AM

Choice to delete inactive takes from the computer - Incorporate pan/crop - track motion and atomation of FX in the Video Bus - sequences and/or nestable tracks - and the slow render times NEEDS to be addressed (Vegas used to excell in this area years ago now it's dead last) I like background rendering - if speeding up the renders is not going to happen then smart prerenders need to stick in almost every situation. And the text generator is pretty lame.

Whishes but not on top of the list:
10 bit color space
More hardware implemantation (Maybe a Sony break out box)
Atomatable Graphic EQ
Interaction with the video preview - ie. drag PIP's using the video preview
Improve the plugin for boris Red
True 3D not just perspective
Don't incorporate the Media Manager from Acid (This would contribute to blotware)

With all said above I STILL LOVE VEGAS and can't imagine using another editor.

Last whish:
This used to be an all POSITIVE forum - lets try to get it back to that.

musman wrote on 1/19/2005, 1:49 AM

This isn't going to be popular, so please don't yell at me. But, somebody had to say it.
Spot has addressed the later 2 requests as impossibie/extreme impractical. But what I need most is to be able to 'talk' to people who use different programs, NLEs, etc. Right now if I can't really outsource as few people use Vegas. I know it may be impossible, but I'd really like to be able to outsource say color correction to my friends who use FCP and Avid.
Also, I use film a lot now and I'd like to be able to give the lab an EDL after I've compiled a picture locked version of the movie and go to them for color correction. FCP people love to talk about this and some day, god willing, I'll have a feature worthy of this.
I know that Vegas can 'talk' with Xpri pretty well, but they're damn hard to find and unless you're experienced with it, a Vegas user won't have a clue how to use it.
10- It would be nice to be able to work with 10 bit at 10 bit, not taking it down to 8 bit.
Spot has said a lot of these things would require Vegas's cost to skyrocket, but I wonder if the increased sales would make up for it. What I've always seen as the 3 things holding Vegas back is 1- Its name- sounds too risky (but I'm not in favor of changing it at this point), 2- Vegas is an island in some ways as I mentioned above (others would say finishing tool), 3- respect (ignorant people think b/c of its limitations that nothing 'professional' can be done with Vegas- see the DV mag review.)
Lost track of which post I read, but I'd also like to see 64 bit to go with XP 64 bit and better integration with Boris Red.
This is my wish list, and it may be pretty impractical as I've granted. But in a perfect world...

aussiemick wrote on 1/19/2005, 1:57 AM

The full integration of the H.264 codec in Vegas and DVDA with the ability to encode and in DVDA burn discs for the H.264 codec, as this will be the way of the near future for DVD's and encoding DV. HDV is simply too expensive for many users and I would say that if Sony devotes too much resourses at the expense of DV a good few of us will fall off the branch.( Personal opinion only)

My second request is the ability to edit Mpeg 2 and also the ability to join files in Mpeg 2.

filmy wrote on 1/19/2005, 6:29 AM

I agree musman!!

I think D/Vision was ahead of it's time when they added a free little DOS utility that allowed you to enter film edge numbers and time code - than when you were done editing you could feed the EDL into it and it would give with a match list. At the time is was "untested" and most people were underwhelmed with it. You know - video was video, film was film and computers were still "new" to a sense. Now here we are and the NLE world has run full steam and progressed in leaps and bounds. Enter SoFo and the upstart Vegas Video...even this now has jumped in leaps and bounds...enter Sony and a more mature Vegas. No matchback, limited EDL, limited to no inter-format project exchange, oft complained about media managment and lack of nesting. Yeah, I know - it is a bit much to expect but I've been doing this for too long and am somewhat of an old dog who doesn't want to learn too many new tricks.

But keep in mind that many people say there is no need for EDL anymore, which can also translate into there is no need for matchback. Sort of hard to get to the matchback part with no need for EDL, at least IMO. The ability to move from platform to platform could be solved with EDL support, or, as many point out, OMIF support might help in this matter as well. (On the subject I found these quotes interesting: We can thank Avid for providing OMF, a nonstandard “standard” that not even Avid itself fully supports. However with enough sweat, swearing, prayer beads, and a very cooperative video editing colleague, you can make an OMF work flow actually work! As an industry wag recently observed, “You know you’re in trouble when you have to write a program to unify a “standard” file type!” [SNIP]AAF is based largely on OMIF (Open Media Interchange Format), thus guaranteeing it’s lack of interoperability on any platform not controlled by the member interests. As mentioned earlier, the task force is promoting both ASF and AAF to standards bodies, including the SMPTE* and the AES.)

And still those who say before Sony adds items they should fix everything that dosn't work or needs work. Things like the media managment and the black frame/gap issue that may, or may not, be related to the whole ripple issue. And one of the biggest bugs that has existed from at least Vegas 4 to 5, is the VidCap 'feature' that will not save project capture information...something so big most people didn't even notice it. (not being ironinc, being truthful - I didn't even notice until I read Grazies post on the topic)

I say fix things that need fixing first and formost. Than add things that could move Vegas into a wider, more competitive, playing field and lastly add on these items that make Vegas 'cooler', and toss in the little lites that blink and HKUI. ;)

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