"You know, some people think the extra cost of Avid Media Composer and associated training is worth it to them."

Course... you're way off track here. What people are talking about is "out of the box". Five day training courses are ANYTHING but.

"Your pea-sized brain is having trouble as usual."

Oh dear.... ouch.... ouch.... ouch. Please stop... that hurts.... ouch... ouch ;)

"Secondly, the quad core rendering problem is widely reported which you would both have known and acknowledged if it was not for your being more obtuse than usual today."

yes... the typical Terje dance... all words and no answers. Again... documented by WHO exactly? Can you please show me a SCS official that states this to be an issue... or maybe you would have me swallow any old thing some one posts on a public forum.... like you.

"Bob has spent more hours of his own time testing and researching problems posted here"
----
Bob (IMO) needs to move on.
----
Blink,

You are editing my quotes. What I said was:

"Bob has spent more hours of his own time testing and researching problems posted here for virtually anyone who had a question on this forum unselfishly for more years than I can remember."

In fact he tests posted problems on his own to see if he can reproduce them so that he can help them. And he follows up on it too. There aren't that many people willing to do that and since I have been here since Vegas 3, I can say that represents his typical response on these forums. How much time do you put in trying to help people here?

He is here to help. Just like John Meyer, Spot, and a whole bunch of other people. Bob has 16,212 posts to date here.

Now if the answer to that is: "Bob needs to move on" then I would suggest that if you can't see the overall picture and you can't see your way to putting in a fraction of the time to help others as he does then maybe you should take your own advice.

I can't believe that a guy who as been the victim of unfair attacks by other forum members is doing the same thing a year later.

John

>> Most people here still say "intel CPU's + intel chipsets = best"
>> You have an intel + intel combo?

I have Intel + Intel Quad and I have had no problems. I have also never claimed that I had problems with that rendering issue. I didn't even claim it was widely documented as the original poster did, but I do acknowledge that it is widely reported. Lots of talk about since quads became more common, but as I said, not on my MOBO CPU combo. Doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Oh, and the 1993, there is no doubt whatsoever that Intel currently has a rather significant lead on the CPU front. AMD has been struggling. Back when I ran a dual core thing, AMD was da bomb, but they haven't delivered anything post the 939 socket that - for raw power, could compete with Intel. I hope it will change back soon, I am a very grateful ex-AMD customer who thinks that what they did with the X64 stuff made Intel sit up and take notice. Strong competition is always good. The latest batch of AMDs, from earlier this year, are still lagging, but for lower end systems they are very good. Processing power per watt has always been good with AMD, but with video editing I am more interested in absolute power than relative. And Intel is still king in that regard. For now.

>> Vegas's implementation of 32bit float.

and it still doesn't work. In 8.1 it works great for me on my box. If I use 32 on 8.0 it dies within having rendered five minutes of video.

>> I've asked you this before Bob

and still you ask why people identify you as a person inflicted with serious amounts of fan-boy-ism. This is such a dumb question I am shocked you ask it again and again. Here is some basic information for you blink, information that should be understandable, even in your current state.

The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. If you care about something you engage. If there are things about a favorite thing you do not like, you take issue with it and you try to have it fixed. When Bob complains about Vegas it shows he wants it to succeed. Fanboyism is for people who are so utterly clueless that they follow without question or critique.

When Bob complains about Vegas it shows he cares. When you think that complaining is somehow a bad thing you just advertise a limited intellect.

""Bob has spent more hours of his own time testing and researching problems posted here for virtually anyone who had a question on this forum unselfishly for more years than I can remember."

No one questions Bob's commitment on this forum... least of all, me. He's intelligent, helpful and giving.... it's his commitment to the product behind this forum that I question and if it makes him this angry then he should move on..... but my guess.... if he does... he'll be back

"and still you ask why people identify you as a person inflicted with serious amounts of fan-boy-ism."

I have asked why? Please show me where? Oh I get it.... another.... "Terje fact"

Frankly Terje.... I couldn't give a rat's rear end what people think.

"If there are things about a favorite thing you do not like, you take issue with it and you try to have it fixed."
See my past posts on HDV capture utility and avchd rendering.

Not to sound like a suck up but if it wasn't for Bob (and a few others) I would still not be operable. I would be going back and forth with SCS and getting no where.
But thanks to Bob, and like I said a few others, I have been able to complete (almost done) a huge, huge project that is very significant to me and my family with virtually no Vegas or any other Video Editing experience!
I am extremely grateful for this. I have been on many other forums (like Video Help) where the people really have no clue and would rather be-little you for being stupid than help you figure out your problem.

I have never felt that way on this forum. I don't know if I would even tolerate Vegas without this forum. ...but after I found this place i am cruising.

Mayber this is out of place here but just thought I'd pipe in.

So peace out all and, again, thanks a million.

Josh

I don't think you're being fair, Blink.
Vegas and it's accompanying tools haven't kept the same pace of development that FCP and Premiere have, and in the process, a few things here and there have gotten broken. Additionally, people grow as editors and start to realize the power they hold in media creation, but find that some of the tools needed to bring those ideas to reality aren't always found with one tool.
I challenge anyone to find a better hammer, saw, and screwdriver than Vegas. But if you need a mitred corner, it might not have that feature in the box.

I believe (speaking for Bob here, even though he inferred me and other trainers are dolts :-) ) I think Bob sees Vegas as a tool, and does so with a fair amount of dispassion.
Dissatisfaction is a catalyst for change...

I'm with Josh... there have been some on this forum that I was glad when they left because all they did was complain. Farss is NOT one of them. Bob and a small group of others are always available on the forum and via email to help WITH Vegas. These guys are incredibly helpful to those of us who don't do this full-time, and I know at times they question why they even help us out. I, for one, need them.

Blink, you've also been quite helpful here at times. But at times you get like Cyclops in the X-Men when he can't bring his vision under control. Rein it in, my man. I like your enthusiasm for Vegas, and many of us get irritated by those who trash it always, never say anything good, and then stick with it. Bob is not in their camp.

"I'm with Josh... there have been some on this forum that I was glad when they left because all they did was complain."

Well...look at it this way... this thread could have just as easily gone the OTHER way... but it didn't. As usual threads like this turn into a great SCS/Vegas put-down time. The PROOF is in the past threads. There are certain people that turn it into such. You have a look with your own eyes who starts it all.... Its' the same people and Bob is right there.

As for Bob being helpful on the forums... i don't think I EVER said that he wasn't... and this is not the issue AT ALL. This forum is lucky to have Bob in that respect.

Sorry Bob.... just callin' it the way I see it.

I haven't found anything on this (SCS) site, but I did find this:

http://blog.digitalcontentproducer.com/briefingroom/2009/03/06/sony-creative-software-focuses-on-broadcast-and-blu-ray-at-nab-2009/

http://www.videography.com/article/79746

Neither are official from SONY. So ultimately, no one but SCS's hairdresser knows for sure.

The Sony NAB announcement in TV Technology (that I quoted above) was official, from Sony.

VP8 and DVDA 4.5.

Still, there may be a preview of VP9 at NAB, who knows.

"I believe (speaking for Bob here, even though he inferred me and other trainers are dolts :-) ) "

Not at all my good friend, not at all.
You are a creative and passionate person. The former somethiing I'll never be but no matter as I take great pleasure in working with creative people and you more than any opened the door to that world for me.

Bob.

Hi,

I'm also complaining (loudly) - as well as starting threads - whenever I stumble over an new "issue" serious enough to be considered as a bug. This does not mean that I have plans to switch to another editing application.

On the contrary - I'm complaing because I care. I would like SCS to iron out those quirks - to move closer to perfection. That does not happen if we all just sit quiet. SCS monitors this forum from time to time. All of us having the same problem should open a support ticket. Everyone. This is the only way we can help SCS - to help us. Helps us as the end users - and helps SCS to sell more products. A win-win situation. Just because we complain (because of a reason) - and care. Therefore it is quiten hard to understand the reactions that we (the complainers) should go elsewhere - or even switch tools.

Even I'm angry from time to time (even pulling some hair from my scalp). Sometimes my anger might creep into my posts. But its aimed only at SCS. My upbrining is such that I never willingly want to offend other people. I have my strong opinions of my own. So do other people. Let them explain to you why they think differently than you. It makes it easier for you to understand their way of thinking - especially if it differs a lot of your own... And vice versa. Objective critisism is always welcome, but stay off personally offending people - it never leads to anything constructive. Isn't that also the fair rule of any forum? And also in the life OUTSIDE of this forum?

By following these rules I still dare to say that you blink3t have some things to learn... I fully understand why your attitude can sometimes cause people to feel offended. With all respect - people might think differently than you, and it does not make them worse than you are. They might have different bakcgrounds or experience, or even insight. Show your real empathy - I think you have such a quality even if you don't show it so often.

There was a debate about HD rendering on intel quad cores. To show that SCS knows about this issue, here is a short quotation from their support:

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software.

I migh have posted this earlier, but just included it here as an example. So - at least we know that officially 8.0c is not 64 bit compatible (even if it runs just fine). However, the issue with 4 core render (to full HD formats) is probably an issue that relates to the OS when run on intel 4 cores. Since 8.1 is not plagued by this issue, it is clearly an real issue in 8.0c. Not in the OS.

Cheers

Christian

Do you really want a program like Ulead that treats you like a novice? "

No,
I want a program that doesn't have pitfalls that even expert users can fall into. Is a few hours coding effort too much to ask for?

Yes, I'd also like the advanced features I and many others have asked for but they will take considerable effort and costs to implement. Not having them means Vegas looses the advanced users, that's a pity but not a huge direct effect on sales.

Loosing the newcomers because of the pitfalls is a very bad thing and can cost a lot of sales as they tend to be the most vocal.

Bob.

"With all the modern ways of communicating.... the only one you can come up with is Youtube??? I would say that this issue is more YOU than anything else."

Please don't keep your suggestions to yourself.
Many of us would dearly love to know what other methods are at our disposal.

I'm trying really hard to fathom Nice Spots based on a recommendation from another Vegas user. Perhaps you've worked it out, perhaps you can suggest something better than posting a video on Youtube or Vimeo and emailing a link to the client?

Mind you Vimeo and Youtube has worked just fine for me and my clients but I'd still love to know what you're using.

Bob.

Christian wrote:

"There was a debate about HD rendering on intel quad cores. To show that SCS knows about this issue, here is a short quotation from their support:"

You know, answers like this one that we are likely to get from SCS (along with ones like "re-install", "de-fragment" and what not) are for me the most serious reasons to lose faith in Vegas from time to time. It's not the program itself, as I can use it for days, weeks and months without a single glitch - and under Vista x64 on a quad Intel, too!

But SCS writing such bull[...] sometimes makes me wonder if they know what they are doing at all.

Were it not be for this forum, and its pillar members like Bob, I'd probably have never been able to complete any of my projects.

Oh well, let's hope the development part of SCS DO know what they're doing (unlike their support colleagues), and we will see this excellent software evolve!

OK now I am scared -
1. It is a shame that - will there be/ what will be Vegas 9 -thread turned into an all out fight .. I will now create a REAL Begas 9 thread ...

2. Why am I scared - I just saw
"There's also the default de-interlace method trap." -
oh oh - as I said I am a hobbiest and I never heard of this - can someone direct me to a thread explaining what this - and how it will effect me.

"can someone direct me to a thread explaining what this - and how it will effect me."

Probably take me longer to find than explain.

In your project properties there's a setting called "De-Interlace Method". By default it is set to None.
Normally this doesn't matter however if you are doing anything that rescales your video then it does impact the quality if the video is Interlaced.

By rescale I mean going from HDV to DV (SD) or converting from NTSC to PAL or the other way around.

The impact on quality can be anything from quite hard to see to fairly dramatic. Worst case is you will see serious jagged edges on the vertical edges of anything moving quickly across the frame

I'd suggest you changed the De-interlace method to Blend. It will not change anything except for the better, no impact on render times etc.
In some situations where there is a lot of very fast motion some users have reported that setting the method to Interpolate gives better results but you may need quite critical eyes to see the difference.

Can I suggest if you have any further questions you start a new thread, I almost missed your post.

bob.

I agree vegas is that old trusty tool you use for 90% of your work. There is no PERFECT system just go to the FCP fourms and see them all complaining about there system. I love the simplicity of vegas thus I can focus on the creative side not the technical junk.
SPOT looking to see you at NAB. You guys have the greatest parties.