"Then step aside so that I can make my purchase."

Sure thing. A Fool and his money soon part...literally.

Just so I don't have to jump back and forth:
Vegas Pro 8 Features

Video Features

* New! ProType Titler
* New! Multicamera editing tools
* New! 32-bit floating point video processing
* New! Digital signage support
* HDV, SD/HD-SDI support
* Red-eye reduction (stills only)
* Comprehensive XDCAM support
* Enhanced video monitoring
* Superior frame rate conversions
* Multitrack video editing on unlimited tracks
* 3D track motion
* Enhanced video compositing
* Keyframeable Bezier masks
* Keyframeable transitions, filters, and track motion
* 3-wheel primary and secondary color correction filters
* Waveform, Vectorscope, Parade, and Histogram monitors
* Real-time playback of effects, processes and transitions to external monitor
* Credit rolls and text animation
* Transition progress envelopes
* Alpha channel support
* Flash™ (.swf) format import
* Support for any aspect ratio (4:3, 16:9, etc)
* Supports multiple file formats and frame rates
* 24p DV support

Audio Features

* New! Audio mixing console
* Broadcast Wave format multichannel support
* AAF track volume and pan info support
* Cinescore plug-in support
* Gracenote CDDB support for CD extractions
* VST plug-in effect support
* Tape-style audio scrubbing
* Audio recording, editing, and mixing on unlimited tracks
* 24-bit/192 kHz audio support
* 5.1 surround mixing tools
* On-the-fly punch-in recording
* Auto-input record monitoring
* 5.1 audio plug-in support for the master bus
* Film-style 5.1 surround panning
* Downmix monitoring
* DirectX® plug-in effects automation
* Includes over 30 DirectX audio effects
* ACID® loop properties support
* ASIO driver support
* Keyboard event pitch shifting
* Fader automation
* Real-time record meters
* 32 assignable effects and 26 Master and Aux outputs
* Bus-to-bus routing
* Solo or mute tracks
* Master, auxiliary, and effects bus tracks

Editing/Workflow Features

* New! Enhanced video previewing
* New! Interactive tutorials
* New! Scripting extensions
* Save and recall window layouts
* Flexible window docking
* Cursor object “snapping”
* Support for XDCAM essence markers
* Envelope brush “painting”
* Enhanced keyboard mapping
* Improved multiprocessor rendering
* Project nesting
* System-wide media management
* AAF Import/Export
* A/V synchronization detect and repair
* Real-time nondestructive editing
* Split-screen A/B previewing
* Simple drag-and-drop operations
* Network rendering
* Envelope automation recording
* High Definition editing and output
* Searchable Media Pool bins
* Media subclips
* Automatic crossfades
* Trimmer window
* JKL scrub; timeline and keyboard trimming
* Real-time A/V event reverse
* Dual monitor support
* Multiple docking windows
* User-definable window layouts
* Customizable keyboard mapping
* Dual processor DV rendering support
* Keyboard trimming and event shuffling
* Edit on 23.976, native 24, 25, 29.97 or 30 fps timelines
* Unlimited undo/redo
* Media Explorer window

Capture/Export/Hardware Features

* New! Blu-ray Disc burning directly from the timeline
* New! No-recompress rendering for Long GOP HDV
* New! XDCAM partial conform for FAM mode
* Export directly to PSP® (PlayStation®Portable)
* AVC/AAC support
* MPEG-2, Insert I-Frame at markers
* ATRAC 3 input and output
* Import from DVD camcorder disc
* Enhanced capture and print-to-tape tools
* SDI deck insert editing per channel
* Render to mxf for XDCAM
* Blackmagic Design DeckLink™ board support
* External control surface support
* Advanced streaming media tools
* Application scripting for task automation
* Subtitle time/text export to DVD Architect software
* Windows Media™ 9 Series support, including surround encoding
* RealVideo™ 9 support
* QuickTime® format support
* VideoCD and multimedia CD burning
* Red Book audio CD production
* Advanced encoding tools
* EDL export
* MPEG-1&2 support
* Supports Windows Media® and RealMedia® commands
* Sony DSR-DU1 and DSR-DR1000 disc recorder support
* J-H3 HDCAM player support for DV downconverts
* 3:2 pulldown removal from DV .AVI files
* Exports chapter markers and subtitles to DVD Architect 4.5 software



DVD Architect Pro 4.5 Features

General Features

* Scripting support
* Random playlist playback
* Parental control
* Cinescore plug-in integration
* Photoshop® (PSD) layer support
* Jacket picture creation
* Theme export
* Integration with Vegas Pro 8 software
* Menu-based and single movie DVD creation
* Easy-to-use drag-and-drop functionality
* Unlimited number of undo/redo
* Media Explorer
* Adjustable Project and File Optimization Settings
* Multi-monitor support
* Multi-processor support
* Fully customizable toolbars
* Get Media from the web

DVD Editing and Layout Features

* Keyframeable transformations
* Keyframeable crop and effects
* Graphical subtitles
* Title reordering
* Snap to I-Frame
* Greater than 100% zoom
* 4:3 and 16:9 preview settings
* DVD mastering tools: DLT, DDP, CMF
* Project playlists
* Copy-protection tools (CSS and Macrovision®)
* Media effects
* Project navigation tool
* Still and motion menu creation
* Support for multiple video titles
* Real-time external monitor preview via i.LINK®/IEEE-1394
* Subtitle creation and support
* Multiple audio track support
* Programmable end actions for menus and media
* Project overview window
* Enhanced asset behavior control
* Multiple menus with up to 36 buttons per menu
* Menu object editing, alignment and sizing tools
* Text editing and shadow effects
* Object snapping
* Slide image rotation
* Add, edit, and move chapter points
* Title and Action safe grid area
* Customizable themes
* Menu looping

Video Features

* Buttons on video
* Crop and adjust dialog
* Slideshow animations
* Picture slideshow duration
* Multi-angle video selection
* DVD movie creation
* Picture slideshows
* Elementary stream import
* 24p DVD encoding
* No re-encoding of compliant files
* NTSC and PAL in normal (4:3) and wide-screen (16:9) formats
* Imports AVI, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MOV, WMV, and a variety of still image formats

Audio Features

* ATRAC Support
* Multiple audio track support
* Music compilations
* Attach audio files to menus
* Media file previewing
* Import WAV, MP3, WMA, PCA, AIF, MPEG audio, AC-3 5.1 or stereo into your DVD Architect project
* 24-bit/192kHz audio support


Testing and Burning Features

* Burn mastered folder
* 8cm to 12cm DVD copy
* Button overlap indication
* Smart project re-prepare
* Dual-layer burning and authoring support
* Real-time project previewing with virtual DVD remote control or to external monitor
* DVD project verification and preparation
* Advanced DVD disc optimization with adjustable bitrates
* Fit to disc option
* Supports a wide variety of DVD burners

SPECIFICATIONS

System Requirements

* Microsoft® Windows® XP SP2 or Windows Vista™
* 1 GHz processor (2.8 GHz recommended for HDV)
* 200 MB hard-disk space for program installation
* 600 MB hard-disk space for optional Sony Sound Series Loops & Samples reference library installation
* 1 GB RAM
* OHCI-compatible i.LINK® connector/IEEE-1394DV card (for DV and HDV capture and print-to-tape)
* Windows-compatible sound card
* DVD-ROM drive (for installation from a DVD only)
* Supported CD-recordable drive (for CD burning only)
* Supported DVD-recordable drive (for DVD burning only)
* Supported Blu-ray recordable drive (for Blu-ray burning only)
* Microsoft .NET Framework 3.0
* QuickTime 7.1.6 or later

"Sure thing. A Fool and his money soon part...literally."

I guess you proved that with your purchase of Premiere CS3.

Yeah that makes a fool alright. I have made my money back on that 10x and with features that Vegas does not and WILL NOT be offering in the new version. And for the record, i have the production premium bundle. for twice the upgrade price, I got a helluva lot more than Vegas offers and a faster and more efficient workflow that translate in money rather than product loyalty. If Vegas would have done the same thing, Id be completely in their camp but they have failed for several years to deliver anything substantial. But its cool. One can have many tools to use but in this case, perhaps you are just attempting to be a tool. Your mission is complete.

This guy must work for Apple.

Look, I have Vegas, Premiere CS3 and Avid Media Composer and I use them all. I'm just tired of your constant Vegas bashing. If you can't be supportive of Vegas either here on the forum or by shelling out the cash to ensure continued development, then it's time for you to move on.

>>...You should've come back sooner. DVDA has supported PSD ...

Yeah. I know. It's just that Encore did PSD from the beginning and that was huge to me. I've made many good Encore DVDs.

I did still keep in the upgrade loop. I bought all of the versions of DVDA and have them installed. Just never used them at all.

Truth is, I just bought DVDA to keep the little swirly AC3 icon in Explorer view. Seriously.

One thing I really liked about DVDA that Adobe never "got" was the X,Y coordinates and individual element pixel size.

I had rather intimate contact with Adobe and stressed how this was so helpful, but they didn't want to do it.

I look forward to getting back with DVDA and using Vegas chapter points again. Never stopped with Vegas though. No way. :)

Er, okay.

My only point was that PSD menus in DVDA is not new. That's all. :)

Rob

Suck on it John. So by your theory I should shell out money to have the right to bitch and bash Vegas? Done that since V4.

Furthermore, nothing I have said is wrong nor embellished. Vegas has only caught up and IF the price is correct on that page, they are charging way more than the product is worth especially since the titler should have been improved back in V6 but instead, it takes two more versions before Sony decides to finally improve it and add it as a feature to try and justify that high of a price tag. At that price point, Vegas is overpriced. If the same upgrade price that V7 used, then its adequate and priced accordingly.

I don't usually get sucked into these threads, but V8 excites me, so I've been following this.
I don't know P@. I can't even say if I've seen his work. He's no relative or even a mate (friend). But in his defense, the folk who are presently attacking him, seem to simply object to the fact that he's not gung-ho on Vegas.
No one seems to refute what he's saying, just the fact that he's saying it.
I'm going to buy V8. It's got some features I want.
I'd be happier at a lower price point, and so would we all, as far as I know.

The personal jibes here are embarrassing to us all. P@ has no product loyalty. He's made no bones about it. He simply wants a Vegas that measures up to what his work flow is.
Those of us who use Vegas happily should be happy that there is someone out there pushing the boundaries of the software's capabilities.

I like a lively debate where people present their facts clearly and without bias.
If anyone can say where his facts are incorrect, that's one thing. But let's be professionals and leave the animosity at the watercooler, please.

Patrick, I ask you, please take it somewhere else, I'm not here to read your personal fights with John, or anyone else. Please, this thread is long enough to read when I've been working all day :), it doesn't need to be any longer with personal fights. So with all due respect and not trying to be rude, I don't have any great desire to read "suck on it John."

(I know you're a reasonable guy and I thank you for not taking this the wrong way).

Dave

Might want to check around to see what else is 32-bit float internally. I don't think Sony is blazing new trails here.

Rob Mack

I think that Pat just tends to fly off the handle a bit and it annoys people.

As far as the upgrade price goes, it's generally lower than the listed upgrade price for the first month or so after release. Assuming that price is US dollars then it's more than it's been in previous years.

There's a little over a week to go until the "unvieling". I'm very curious to see what's up with V8 and taking that feature list with a grain of salt. Remember that if it doesn't say "New" it's an old feature. Sounds like a few people were unaware of the old features.

Vegas is not the integrated juggernaut that the Premiere suite is, but then after listening to the constant groaning of a ppro 2.0 user 6 feet away from me I'm not so eager to drink the coolaid. But if I really needed the AEFX integration id see things differently.

Rob Mack

Sounds like you were on the Adobe tour.

Wish Sony would do that.

Rob Mack

I think we can officially say that this will not happen and nor will OMF. According to a post from a SCS bod, more people asked for the eye candy of a mixer layout. Still love to know who those "more people" are, probably the ones who can't be bothered to RTFM cause they're in too busy uploading to Youtube. Oh well, there's always V9.

Bob.

I think this is the record for a thread to hit 100 posts so soon!

I hate to chime in on the John Cline / P@mast3rs debate but I'm going to... ugh.

Patrick, you said "Perhaps I have just outgrown the software if thats even possible"

I know mjroddy has come to your defense and I appreciate your candor in your posting, however, I think perhaps your statement above is all that is left to be said. If you have outgrown Vegas, step aside and let those who haven't continue to use it as a tool. Your approach is consistently complaining and bickering about the software because it fails to do what you wish it would do. I think you've made your point. I'm surprised that you continually make the effort to come back and keep posting when you could be refining your skills further in CS3.

I've got FCP, Vegas and CS3 all on the same machine. I use them all. Neither of them do it ALL. Maybe with your needs, Premiere and the CS3 suite do it all. For many here, we are using Vegas because it either does all, or most of what we need. To continually bitch and moan about what Vegas lacks only tells me that you probably need to go search out what works for you. The fact that you're continually back here tells me that there's something in Vegas that you can't put to bed. Maybe still a love for the app?

As before, I've got FCP, Vegas and Premiere Pro all on my system, they all serve different needs. I do corporate, industrial, commercial and film editing and I use each one for different projects, and for all of the different things I work on, none of these solves all my needs individually. They are, as many have put it, a series of tools to help us do our jobs / hobbies / etc..

I've held off posting this but can I kindly say "lay off" the negativity. If you have truly outgrown Vegas, have all you wish to drink and eat and have a safe flight home. No hard feelings. There are plenty of users excited for what is to come that can truly use everything both in Vegas and yet to be released here in a few days.

-cheno

I think that many users (myself included) use different NLE's for different projects. I miss a few things in Vegas (like direct drop of timeline to DVD for client preview etc.), but as you say Cheno, I love the software for 80-90% and that's why I keep hanging on to it. The last 10-20% I can get somewhere else.

Another reason for my Vegas passion is this community. Sometimes it's a little bid like 24/7 support. Sometimes I have posted a question in the evening (danish time) and got several answers the next morning and that is of great value I think. If I were to switch to a totally different system, I would visit their forums to see whats going on there too before making the switch.


/Ulf

Deusx,

You're like the little brat in the sandbox who just brought a new toy to show off. Yelling at the other kids...

"Jimmy's toys all suck! Bobby's toys are a joke! MY toys are the best ever!"

So they come over and glance at your toy, then they slowly drift away because they can't stand you.

Just like people who hate the Yankees or the Lakers, you just can't stand the success of others. From your maturity level, you're either really young or really ignorant.

>>>>You're like the little brat in the sandbox who just brought a new toy to show off. Yelling at the other kids...

"Jimmy's toys all suck! Bobby's toys are a joke! MY toys are the best ever!"<<<<<

That would be the case if I went to avid, fcp or adobe forum and started bragging about Vegas, and I'm not a member of any of those forums.

On the other hand you and others come to Vegas forum bragging ( yelling at us other kids as you say ) about how great your new CS3 suites, or FCP studio are. And I simply respond. Nothing else

So, by the brat in the sandbox comments, obviously you decribed yourself, not me.

Also, it's too bad that FCP studio or CS3 suite don't include a sense of humor. Maybe in the next version? You guys need to lighten up.

in a blatant attempt to hijack this thread (and be funny) and still remain ever so slightly on topic. Let's not forget that it's more important what you shoot than what you cut your shots on.

Case in point (I think this has pretty much no editing whatsoever, yet) it was dubbed the number 1 greatest Internet hit on VH1. It's the perfect example of viral video, who would have guessed huh?





- that's the link for those of you who don't have the view images turned on in your forum settings

Dave

:P

... what's a GOP ?

Excellent timely reminder FrigidNDE - to demonstrate the worth of editing, we have to look at a clip like that and say we can improve on it....


.... meanwhile ...... I'm really hanging out for V8Pro!!!

(p.s. this clip has been edited to demonstrate the worth of editing.)