Comments

RogerS wrote on 8/8/2022, 3:10 AM

60fps isn't a normal delivery framerate. 24fps is standard for cinema, 25fps for PAL broadcast and 30fps NTSC broadcast. 60fps is a very smooth look which renders motion a bit strangely to me. The Hobbit tried it but wasn't well received. It also requires more data, more processing power and makes slow motion more difficult as you then need greater than 60fps (120+).

30fps should be adequate for pans, every TV show you've ever watched is 30fps or less. By using exact multiples of the original framerate there shouldn't be artifacts as it just throws out every other frame. For slow motion you use every frame and get 2x slow motion by going from 60 to 30. But it's your project, not mine, so use what works best for your intended purpose.

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VEGAS Pro 21.208
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Try the
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EricLNZ wrote on 8/8/2022, 9:51 PM

25fps for PAL broadcast

25fps PAL TV broadcasts in NZ, Australia and UK (I don't know about other PAL countries) are actually 50i so after deinterlacing by your TV the original 25fps becomes 50fps for the viewer. Personally I find 25 fps video jerky with movement across the frame which is presumably why PAL cameras, even in SD days, provided 50fps albeit it was interlaced into 25fps.

As for "Hollywood" Peter Jackson actually used 48 fps for the Hobbit series. I've only seen it on TV, not on the big screen. Why 48 should upset some viewers when 50fps is the norm for PAL cameras puzzles me as does how 24 fps looks smooth in the cinema when 24fps from a consumer digital camera is jerky. I suspect it's to do with the shutter angle?

Former user wrote on 8/8/2022, 10:42 PM

@EricLNZ Is it possible you have your bad take on 50i due to TV show conversions from 60i for content originating in NTSC countries?

That used to look terrible, especially with fast credit scrolls at the end of TV episodes and panning shots, it's due to duplicated frames. It is most likely shutter angle you don't like with digital cameras creating 24P, phones especially as they don't normally have variable apertures or ND filters. This is the problem the user will face if he converts his GoPro 60frame video to 30frame (non conformed) unless he used an ND filter to get a lower shutter speed.. 60fps with very high shutter can look fine, but at 24 or 30fps the lack of motion blur can look jerky

RogerS wrote on 8/8/2022, 10:55 PM

Analog NTSC was also 60i, though analog broadcast died 15 or so years ago and it's been 30p since then as far as I'm aware.

We've strayed pretty far from the original topic, but regarding mixing framerates, shutter speeds, panning, etc. here's a decent video with examples comparing them.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD and 2TB Samsung 980 Pro cache drive, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

ASUS Zenbook Intel i9-13900H with Intel graphics iGPU with latest ASUS driver, NVIDIA 4060 (8GB) with latest studio driver, 48GB system ram, Windows 11 Home, 1TB Samsung SSD.

VEGAS Pro 21.208
VEGAS Pro 22.122

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark (works with VP 16+): https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark (works with VP 20+): https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

Former user wrote on 8/8/2022, 11:51 PM

Analog NTSC was also 60i, though analog broadcast died 15 or so years ago and it's been 30p since then as far as I'm aware.

@RogerS

Interlaced digital is still very common for over the air broadcast due to limited bandwidth, especially 1080i. Countries that adopted digital early used mpeg2, before mpeg4 was standardized, and I think for compatibility reasons the main channels are still mpeg2, as some people's TV's and DVR's won't be able to read mpeg4. May not be true for USA as USA did not go digital for a decade after much of the world

RogerS wrote on 8/9/2022, 12:53 AM

Interesting, I thought the switch to ATSC over the air digital was also the end of interlacing but it sounds like not. I had a converter box to a CRT at some point but don't recall what it output.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD and 2TB Samsung 980 Pro cache drive, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit

ASUS Zenbook Intel i9-13900H with Intel graphics iGPU with latest ASUS driver, NVIDIA 4060 (8GB) with latest studio driver, 48GB system ram, Windows 11 Home, 1TB Samsung SSD.

VEGAS Pro 21.208
VEGAS Pro 22.122

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark (works with VP 16+): https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark (works with VP 20+): https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

EricLNZ wrote on 8/9/2022, 4:04 AM

Is it possible you have your bad take on 50i due to TV show conversions from 60i for content originating in NTSC countries?

@Former user I don't have a bad take on 50i, other than the usual deinterlacing problem with fine sharp lines giving flicker. As for NTSC conversion I've not noticed any problems with US programmes. I suspect they are converted to 50i for transmission.