@d97jro Thanks for filling that in, why not install Quicktime ? I've pretty much always had it installed but i don't use it,
@d97jro Thanks for filling that in, why not install Quicktime ? I've pretty much always had it installed but i don't use it,
There is a very good reason for that (if one disregards the security aspects and all that): it will only handle a limited amount of MOV files which is a know issue with that old 32-bit piece of software. This means I can only import a handful of such Apple-generated MOV files at a time (or Vegas will freeze and have to be killed and restarted). If I do that multiple times, I can finally edit my project. Then, on the timeline, suddenly some clips show only black instead of the video, or even no video when added to the timeline. One would then need to repackage as many of those files needed until "under the limit" of what Quicktime can handle. It is very tedious, and also requires additional repacked files which I loathe. This is how I currently handle it with my Vegas 12.0, and was happily looking forward to perhaps being able to work properly with these files in contemporary Vegas versions. If I cannot, I would still have these issues and can then just as well stick with Vegas 12.0 and save the €€ for upgrading.
@d97jro is the file you shared what you call an 'Apple-generated MOV file' ? & how many is a limited amount?
@d97jro is the file you shared what you call an 'Apple-generated MOV file' ? & how many is a limited amount?
Yes, it was shot with and copied straight from my iPhone so I guess a MOV file doesn't get more Apple-generated than that. :-)
Limited amount is two digit number and under 20... And then even if you managed to load them in groups, saving the project and opening it again will cause problems since all of them are opened at once => Vegas freeze, kill it, restart and try to recreate project (or move the files, mark them as offline and skip for now to load what can be loaded and then recreate and replace enough files with repacked MP4 files).
@d97jro I think there's a certain amount of paranoia about Quicktime, prob from when it was used 'Saving existing QuickTime movies from the web', mine doesn't connect to the net, it doesn't boot up on start-up, i haven't filled in anything in the Register section, there's nothing in the settings that require a 'log-in', i don't use it, i don't ever remember it coming up in a virus search or security 'vulnerability' & i've never heard of anyone having a security problem with the basic free, non web related version, i only have it for the codecs that come with it,
I don't have any Apple-generated files apart from the one you shared so i copied it 64 times, maybe your 2GB graphics has something to do with the black clips you experience.,
I have turned back on 'Enable Quicktime plugin' but as i showed before it wasn't needed on my machine.
I do have 36 other .MOV files created with other software, they need Quicktime to work & i can load all of those in one project, ,
No paranoia from my end (and I do have the ancient legacy Quicktime on another machine with Vegas 12.0), I just get tired of bad software that simply doesn't work (well). Also pretty tired of all guesswork that comes around these things, a lot of cargo cult going on, most of the time barking up the entirely wrong trees. I always want to know what is failing and why, in order to know how to properly mitigate it. Guessing doesn't cut it.
I know for sure I'm not the only one that have the aforementioned Quicktime issues (I learned about it here in the forums some years ago). And the case of trying to load multiple files is not even on the table when Vegas Pro 19.0 fails to load even a single one for me.
Your iPhone SE file opens in my Vegas 19-550 installation and is decoded by so4compoundplug, not Quicktime:
General Name: IMG_5235.mov Folder: C:\Users\John\Downloads Type: AVC Size: 43.07 MB (44,099,051 bytes) Created: Thursday, March 31, 2022, 7:43:40 AM Modified: Thursday, March 31, 2022, 7:43:54 AM Accessed: Thursday, March 31, 2022, 7:44:20 AM Attributes: Archive Streams Video: 00:00:07.633, 30.006 (VFR) fps progressive, 3840x2160x32, AVC Audio: 00:00:07.632, 44,100 Hz, Stereo, AAC Summary [TCFM]: 7 ACID information ACID chunk: no Stretch chunk: no Stretch list: no Stretch info2: no Beat markers: no Detected beats: no Other metadata Regions/markers: no Command markers: no Media manager Media tags: no Plug-In Name: so4compoundplug.dll Folder: C:\Program Files\VEGAS\VEGAS Pro 19.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\so4compoundplug Format: AVC Version: Version 1.0 (Build 8532) Company: MAGIX Computer Products Intl. Co.
I would probably convert the files to ProRes Proxy in Shutter Encoder to rid myself of having to deal with variable frame rate (VFR) in the original file. The resulting files will be ~ twice as large but will likely play much better on the Vegas timeline and won't have little notches on the timeline where media doesn't end on a frame boundary.
General Complete name : C:\Users\John\Downloads\IMG_5235_Apple_ProRes_Proxy.mov Format : MPEG-4 Format profile : QuickTime Codec ID : qt 0000.02 (qt ) File size : 97.2 MiB Duration : 7 s 640 ms Overall bit rate mode : Variable Overall bit rate : 107 Mb/s Encoded date : UTC 2022-03-31 14:55:49 Tagged date : UTC 2022-03-31 14:55:49 Writing application : Lavf59.5.100 Video ID : 1 Format : ProRes Format version : Version 0 Format profile : 422 Proxy Codec ID : apco Duration : 7 s 634 ms Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 105 Mb/s Width : 3 840 pixels Height : 2 160 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 30.000 FPS Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2 Scan type : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.423 Stream size : 95.8 MiB (99%) Title : Core Media Video Writing library : Apple Encoded date : UTC 2022-03-31 14:55:49 Tagged date : UTC 2022-03-31 14:55:49 Color primaries : BT.709 Transfer characteristics : BT.709 Matrix coefficients : BT.709 Audio ID : 2 Format : PCM Format settings : Little / Signed Codec ID : sowt Duration : 7 s 640 ms Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel layout : L R Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz Bit depth : 16 bits Stream size : 1.40 MiB (1%) Title : Core Media Audio Default : Yes Alternate group : 1 Encoded date : UTC 2022-03-31 14:55:49 Tagged date : UTC 2022-03-31 14:55:49
It was asked about someone with "AMD" GPU to test file.
Yes, it works. Saw thumbnail in Project Media folder after import. Put on timeline, accepted Resolution/Frame Rate, and was able to play/stop/resume/reverse using keyboard spacebar or J-K-L.
Vegas Pro 19 (Bld. 532); AMD Radeon VII (Radeon Pro 21.Q4.3 - Dec 2021); Win 10 Pro 64-Bit (19044.1586)
Computer specifications in signature.
The file also is working on my aging AMD computer with no problems and full playback speed.
Your iPhone SE file opens in my Vegas 19-550 installation and is decoded by so4compoundplug, not Quicktime:
Is that the plugin that reads the MOV container as well? Reading the Vegas documentation for the so4compoundplug, it seems it handles the AVC which would be the next step after opening the MOV container. If I repack the testfile used here in an MP4 container (with the same A/V streams, unaltered), Vegas Pro 19.0 will open it nicely (but it says it used compoundplug.dll for it).
The issue is not the streams in the container, it is opening the container itself.
I would probably convert the files to ProRes Proxy in Shutter Encoder to rid myself of having to deal with variable frame rate (VFR) in the original file.
For me, not having to mess around with intermediate formats is what made me buy Vegas in the first place.
If under preferences, file i/o "enable legacy AVC decoding" is unchecked it should open with so4compound.
It opened without issue here and works with Intel hardware decoding.
@d97jro so4compound was mentioned by Roger, & i inc in my pic after his,
If you go to Options in Vegas, press Shift before you click Options - internal & type so4 at the bottom, what does it show?
Now successfully conducted the experiment on the native Windows 10 Enterprise 20H2 19042.1586 laptop, with i5-8250U, 32 GB RAM and internal Intel GPU and absolutely no Quicktime. Install, import said MOV clip, no problems whatsoever. so4compound used according to Properties. Good!
Now also successful on the native Windows 10 Professional desktop computer that is way too old to run Vegas 19.0 smoothly, but it works and also with a huge amount of original iPhone footage. Win! Next is to investigate what would happen in one of my other virtual Windows machines.
Your GPU is below the Vegas Pro 19 minimum memory size for UHD source media.
At some point, you might find the VFR from cell phones annoying. You can change to constant frame rate with FFMPEG, Happy Otter Scripts or VideoReDo TV Suite without altering the video/audio or significantly changing the file size.
Your GPU is below the Vegas Pro 19 minimum memory size for UHD source media.
It sure is, but there's a difference between "recommended" and "won't work".
The desktop machine I successfully ran Vegas Pro 19.0 some hour ago sports an i3225 with the integrated HD Graphics 4000. Sure it's below the recommended spec. and the preview won't run that smoothly, but there's a huge difference between not being able to open a MOV container and being able to do so properly and then being a bit on the slow side.
At some point, you might find the VFR from cell phones annoying.
I might, but for several years and lots of hours of video editing that has not happened yet. Intermittent errors in non-functioning legacy software (Quicktime) on the other hand, very annoying.
I'm glad you got it to work, though am not really clear on what you did?
Vegas really doesn't need Quicktime for AVC or ProRes or HEVC in a mov container, just jpeg/png,DNxHD and a few other codecs. Hopefully they also get moved to so4compound at some point. The container isn't the problem as you can see from the Intel, NVIDIA and AMD users above who opened the same file without issue in Vegas.
Compoundplug is the old Vegas decoder. so4compound was introduced with VP 15 if I recall correctly. Compoundplug It doesn't support GPU decoding or certain AVC formats. You can force Vegas to use this by checking "enable legacy AVC decoding" in file i/o or messing with internal preferences (not recommended). Vegas should use so4compound by default with AVC files.
I'm glad you got it to work, though am not really clear on what you did?
The issue on the initial virtual machine remains unresolved. But I got Vegas working nicely just like everybody else (?) on two native Windows PCs that I have access to. (Without the legacy Quicktime and all.) One of those machines meets the recommended hardware specifications and one of them is waaaaayyyy older/below what is recommended, but Vegas works just fine on both those Windows machines.
The container isn't the problem
Well it obviously is, since repackaging the content from the Apple-generated MOV file from the iPhone to an MP4 container
ffmpeg -i IMG_5235.MOV -c copy IMG_5235.mp4
and using that MP4 file instead works flawlessly with the very same virtual machine-installed Vegas. So Vegas has no problems whatsoever with neither the AVC nor the AAC stream, but it fails to open the MOV file (in the virtual machine).
Thanks for updating it. Something appears broken on the virtual machine with the decoders and possibly GPU support?
Vegas has no problem with AVC in MOV vs MP4 containers in general. Similar thing, different wrapper. Half my files are Canon mov and half Sony mp4. I also don't have Quicktime enabled.
I checked your Iphone file, trying various decodes, I get playback every way possible, but the interesting thing Is JUST HOW BAD that SO4 decoder is, even for AVC files. It's terrible for HEVC not being able to utilize multi threaded decoding , but thought it fine for AVC, however it uses a tonne of CPU . Legacy AVC uses much less CPU but playback and editing performance is identical.
So SO4 is inefficient in regards to CPU use for HEVC decode in that it can't use all your cores, but with AVC SO4 is inefficient because it needs so much extra CPU to do the same as the Legacy decoder. I conformed your 30fps file to 60fps and put it in a 4K60fps project . Another thing to note is how easy this file is to edit with the GPU decoder on or off. Some 4K camera files don't edit well, and for a graphical reference this is what it looks like
Note the lack of B frames, I don't think Vegas likes B frames, while other editors are fine with them. more research required
I am having a related problem that I cannot seem to solve: I cannot get Vegas Pro 19 to recognize/open .mov files. I have installed and re-installed various versions of Quicktime (7.76 up to 7.79), I have checked the "enable the Quicktime plug-in" option in the "deprecated feature" tab under "options" > "preferences". I have made sure to restart VP19 and my computer in every which combination.
Here is all that I want ...
To use VP to edit the video files produced in the following way: 4k 60fps MP4 files recorded by my Go Pro Hero 10 and then edited in Go Pro Player (I merely stabilized using the Reel Steady option) and then exported as .mov files with Cineform codec. If I export as H.264 or H.265 from the Go Pro Player, there is no problem opening in VP. However, I would rather edit with the higher quality .mov files with Cineform codec.
Here are some symptoms and observations:
Whenever I try to add one of the .mov files to Vegas, whether by dragging and dropping from my desktop, dragging from the Vegas explorer, or importing, the files simply don't add to the timeline. If I UNcheck the "enable the Quicktime plug-in" under the "Options" menu, only the audio clip will add to the timeline. If I DO check the aforementioned option, nothing at all will add. If I use my cursor to select the .mov files through the VP19 file explorer, no information for the files is displayed, as if VP cannot identify the file type. The very first time that I tried to add the .mov file, a pop-up window in VP stated along the lines of: “You must install the latest version of Quicktime 7 for this file type”. A link was also provided in the pop-up, which I proceeded to follow. It allowed me to install Quicktime 7.7.9, which, as mentioned, did not solve the problem. One interesting observation is that, when I do run Quicktime, regardess of the various versions I have tried, the program always remains in a loading state. I am nevertheless able to successfully open MP4 files, BUT, as with VP, it will not open the .mov files. The error message thrown is: “Error 2048 Could not open the file because it is not a file that Quicktime understands”. Similarly, I read somewhere that if I installed Go Pro Studio, that Cineform codec would automatically be made available to other programs on my system (e.g., Quicktime) such that they could recognize cineform .mov files. In fact, Go Pro Studio itself was not able to open the files, let alone Quicktime (I tried with both 7.7.6 and the latest 7.7.9). At another point early on in my explorations, when dragging the .mov file to the timeline, I vaguely recall VP also creating a pop-up that indicated that the file type was not recognized.
Here is some of my system information that may be relevant:
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9750H CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.59 GHz
32.0 GB RAM
Windows 10 Pro
GPU Nvidia Quadro T2000
Here is some information about the .mov files I can't open:
General
Complete name: C:\Users\andre\Desktop\Vasona (MOV).mov
Format: MPEG-4
Format profile: Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID: mp42 (mp41/isom)
File size: 2.04 GiB
Duration: 4 min 54 s
Overall bit rate mode: Variable
Overall bit rate: 59.5 Mb/s
Encoded date: UTC 2022-08-06 23:51:43
Tagged date: UTC 2022-08-06 23:51:43
Video
ID: 1
Format: CineForm
Codec ID: CFHD
Codec ID/Info: CineForm High-Definition (HD) wavelet codec
Duration: 23 s 774 ms
Source duration: 23 s 774 ms
Bit rate mode: Variable
Bit rate: 736 Mb/s
Width: 3 840 pixels
Height: 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio: 16:9
Frame rate mode: Variable
Frame rate : 59.940 FPS
Minimum frame rate: 59.940 FPS
Maximum frame rate: 60.000 FPS
Color space: YUV
Chroma subsampling: 4:2:2
Bit depth: 10 bits
Scan type: Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame): 1.480
Stream size: 2.04 GiB (100%)
Source stream size: 2.04 GiB (100%)
Encoded date: UTC 2022-08-06 23:51:43
Tagged date: UTC 2022-08-06 23:51:43
mdhd_Duration: 23774
Audio
ID: 2
Format: AAC LC
Format/Info: Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID: mp4a-40-2
Duration: 23 s 787 ms
Bit rate mode: Constant
Bit rate: 192 kb/s
Nominal bit rate: 48.0 kb/s
Channel(s): 2 channels
Channel layout: L R
Sampling rate: 48.0 kHz
Frame rate: 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode: Lossy
Stream size: 550 KiB (0%)
Encoded date: UTC 2022-08-06 23:51:43
Tagged date: UTC 2022-08-06 23:51:43
mdhd_Duration: 23787
Other
ID: 3
Type: Time code
Format: QuickTime TC
Duration: 4 min 54 s
Bit rate mode: Constant
Frame rate: 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Time code of first frame: 22:19:32:43
Time code of last frame: 22:24:26:48
Time code, striped: Yes
Title: GoPro TCD
Language: English
Encoded date: UTC 2022-06-18 21:56:45
Tagged date: UTC 2022-06-18 21:56:45
Here is a downloadable version of the one of the .MOV files that won’t open in VP:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ajhtd5CJJOlqoGT80P1Wy-isG78lUcl4/view?usp=sharing
@AEMontoya I'd suggest starting a new thread and put Cineform in the title as this issue isn't related.
I don't think 10 bit 4:2:2 Cineform ever opened through QuickTime so perhaps try a lesser quality version of Cineform and see if that opens. If the source files are 8 bit there's no point in a 10-bit container anyway.
You'll also likely hit memory limits in QuickTime in Vegas if you do go this route so I wouldn't recommend Cineform if you have a lot of files to work with (they'll start to go black). AVC with a high-enough bitrate should suffice if there are no other intermediate formats to choose from.
@RogerS I guess this just goes to show how little I understand about all this. I'm a first-time VP user--and user of any video editing software, for that matter--and Go Pro user, and just as I thought I was beginning to make sense of everything ... LOL. The consensus online seems to be that exporting the Cineform format from the Go Pro Player is the best way to preserve video quality for video editing (some mentioned Adobe Premiere and DaVinci Resolve). And I was able to upload one of the Cineform .mov files to YouTube that is more than 10 times larger than the 23-second clip in my last post. I must be confused about a few things, as I assumed that Vegas Pro would easily be able to handle such files if those other programs can. I bought Vegas Pro 19 for pretty much the express purpose of editing the stabilized videos from Go Pro Player. I guess maybe I should have bought Adobe Premier or DaVinci Resolve? Now to figure out what sort of title to use when posting elsewhere. Any guidance, from anyone, for this lost soul would be appreciated.
I still think you should make a new thread as this is about GoPro workflow more than compatibility.
Cineform is fairly dated at this point (I last used it a decade ago) and in Vegas only opens using the 32-bit Quicktime plugin, which unfortunately has serious limitations with the amount of memory it can address. The other software presumably has a way to open it natively but at this point Vegas doesn't. For Vegas, Apple ProRes is a much better intermediate format.
Are your originals 10-bit?
For shooting on a GoPro I'd follow the settings here for your camera (even if you don't use the LUT; though the correction LUT is quite good if you are willing to pay for it).
Then I'd export in a different format for editing in Vegas. Here it says the software does Apple ProRes, so that's your best bet for Vegas. If that's only true for the Mac version, try h264 and just give it a higher bitrate to preserve quality. Test a few files and see if the quality is acceptable for your uses.
Thanks for the further input; it's very useful. I will definitely make a new thread; I'm just trying to get my bearings about how it should be titled, but it's becoming more clear now.
I will definitely look into Apple ProRes.
My originals are 8-bit.
I'll look into the LUT for the GPH10 on the link you provided (first, I'll have to figure out what a LUT is, LOL, figure out if the GPH10 LUT also works with the GPH10 Bones Edition I have, and then see if those settings would interfere with the Max Lens Mod I'd like to try out).
Further investigation appears to show that the Go Pro Player, which I need to use to apply stabilization via Reel Steady, only exports H264, HVEC, or Cineform, unfortunately. That's why I was bent on getting the Cineform to work, since it seems to have great quality compared with the other two (at least based on the qualitative graphical display the program gives prior to export). I guess the H264 or HVEC will have to suffice, but I don't think bitrate can be adjusted prior to export from Go Pro Player, either (I suppose I can at least do that in Vegas prior to rendering, though, from what I can see).
Anyway, sorry for carrying on in this unrelated thread. I appreciate your help a lot. After creating a new thread, do you think I should remove these posts from this thread? Not exactly sure how the ettiquete goes.