Vegas renders a mono audio voice file with HEAVY distortion half way

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/17/2024, 12:28 PM

Quick background on me:
Recording audio for 45 years. Video since 2004 (Vegas 5).

I know audio. Software /DAW (Akai DPS21) also Reaper.

I have lost patience with Vegas, even with brand new high end system the app will freeze every few seconds. OK Im not going to rant.

Due to me pretty much avoiding using it for anything more than I have to these days I have been importing multi track audio from xsplit. I then export out the 2 tracks i want, one mono voice over and one stereo 'game' mix.

Been working until today when the mic was upgraded to nt1 and due to RME routing it is a stereo file with mic audio left channel.

So duh I set to left only and i get central mono track vegas. Previews FINE there is NO distortion it is CLEAN as beep.

It is 45 min long. For 3 HOURS i have tried every desperate method i know (even splitting!!) to get the audio out so i can sidechain duck in a GOOD audio app, Reaper. NOT possible. Every single render after 30 mins volume jumps and massive distortion/unusable. I normally use wav 48k/16 bit mono but no matter what the output same distortion at 30 mins.

I split into 2. Distortion 2nd part. I rendered 10 secs from 2nd part. FINE. So there is nothing ghosted on timeline . The project is brand new import video deleted audio streams i dont want and thats it. Ive deleted all default fx on audio and also used wave hammer (which I do NOT want as want CLEAN) but am desperate to get this audio out of vegas.

WTH do I do? I dont want to buy another NLE just to extract audio from multi channel mp4. In future I will try to record audio separately from xsplit so i can toss vegas away until final video edit.

But I WANT this ONE single mic track recoded CLEAN out of vegas and into a simple mono wav.

I will PAY for an app with interface that can do this. Like vegas SHOULD.

Yes Ive reset the thing, no difference. Rebooted, lowered out[ut 10db STILL massive distortion. OK one sec im gonna lower the volume 20dB ....

of course STILL distorted..yes i disabled wave hammer so my -20db audio file has massive distortion?!

RG

can i upload audio file? dont know size limit 45 min wav is 260mb

EDIT: when I saw volume jumps at 30 mins more accurate would be it sounds like pre GAIN huge jump then volume reduction. As silence between voice is much louder then it comes down for distorted voice. Sounds like a badly setup compressor has boosted audio until it distorts then re-recorded the distorted audio.

OR it sounds like the mic cable is bust so it gives dirty signal boosted by compression. Input source signal is CLEAN....

 

 

Comments

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/17/2024, 1:33 PM

Quick background on me:
Recording audio for 45 years. Video since 2004 (Vegas 5).

I know audio. Software /DAW (Akai DPS21) also Reaper.

I have lost patience with Vegas, even with brand new high end system the app will freeze every few seconds. OK Im not going to rant.

Due to me pretty much avoiding using it for anything more than I have to these days I have been importing multi track audio from xsplit. I then export out the 2 tracks i want, one mono voice over and one stereo 'game' mix.

Been working until today when the mic was upgraded to nt1 and due to RME routing it is a stereo file with mic audio left channel.

So duh I set to left only and i get central mono track vegas. Previews FINE there is NO distortion it is CLEAN as beep.

It is 45 min long. For 3 HOURS i have tried every desperate method i know (even splitting!!) to get the audio out so i can sidechain duck in a GOOD audio app, Reaper. NOT possible. Every single render after 30 mins volume jumps and massive distortion/unusable. I normally use wav 48k/16 bit mono but no matter what the output same distortion at 30 mins.

I split into 2. Distortion 2nd part. I rendered 10 secs from 2nd part. FINE. So there is nothing ghosted on timeline . The project is brand new import video deleted audio streams i dont want and thats it. Ive deleted all default fx on audio and also used wave hammer (which I do NOT want as want CLEAN) but am desperate to get this audio out of vegas.

WTH do I do? I dont want to buy another NLE just to extract audio from multi channel mp4. In future I will try to record audio separately from xsplit so i can toss vegas away until final video edit.

But I WANT this ONE single mic track recoded CLEAN out of vegas and into a simple mono wav.

I will PAY for an app with interface that can do this. Like vegas SHOULD.

Yes Ive reset the thing, no difference. Rebooted, lowered out[ut 10db STILL massive distortion. OK one sec im gonna lower the volume 20dB ....

of course STILL distorted..yes i disabled wave hammer so my -20db audio file has massive distortion?!

RG

can i upload audio file? dont know size limit 45 min wav is 260mb

EDIT: when I saw volume jumps at 30 mins more accurate would be it sounds like pre GAIN huge jump then volume reduction. As silence between voice is much louder then it comes down for distorted voice. Sounds like a badly setup compressor has boosted audio until it distorts then re-recorded the distorted audio.

OR it sounds like the mic cable is bust so it gives dirty signal boosted by compression. Input source signal is CLEAN....

 

 

ok it wont let me edit the post but have further info. I used ffmpeg to extract the audio file. Put it into Reaper. Now it plays back clean as in vegas but the wav form is boosted up to max at 30 minute point. LOOKS like distortion but sounds fine. Did a quick clean render no effects and guess what? same distortion at 30 mins. So...how on earth can an audio file that has been recorded clean and previews clean have this visual wav weirdness and distortion ONLY after rendering? Its not some 32 bit floatless thing going on is it? can xsplit even record 32 bit fless? Apologise to Vegas as its same in Reaper. Clean preview crap render. The plot thickens..how the heck do I get this rendered clean so i can work with it?

lol floatless =floating point...autocorrect magic :D

john_dennis wrote on 6/17/2024, 2:09 PM

Please post Mediainfo report for your source file per these instructions.

(FAQ) How to post MediaInfo and VEGAS Pro File Properties

rraud wrote on 6/17/2024, 2:16 PM

Is there a hidden volume envelope? ('V' key), Extreme volume changes can sometimes occur when an event is split after normalization and re-extended.

btw, welcome to the Vegas users community @Russell-Gough.

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/17/2024, 3:36 PM

Please post Mediainfo report for your source file per these instructions.

(FAQ) How to post MediaInfo and VEGAS Pro File Properties

this is the offending audio - stream only NOT microphone...that was the webcam bogus audio

 

Audio #4
ID                                       : 5
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 47 min 31 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 165 kb/s
Nominal bit rate                         : 320 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 320 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 56.2 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : Stream Only Audio
Default                                  : No
Alternate group                          : 1

 

the mic itself is recorded on left channel right is empty

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/17/2024, 3:39 PM

thanks for the welcome! ive lurked for over a decade..

Is there a hidden volume envelope? ('V' key), Extreme volume changes can sometimes occur when an event is split after normalization and re-extended.

btw, welcome to the Vegas users community @Russell-Gough.

It's a new project and anyway the demuxed audio stream did the same thing in reaper. Preview fine, render bad.

here is screenshot of what it looks like in Reaper. It is not so obvious in vegas, it looks clipped in Reaper but just normalized in Vegas

Weird thing is...it previews same volume during clipped part as earlier. UNLESS you START play in quiet part then let it run it once or twice distorts in preview. If you stop and restart in clip area it plays fine again. I'm tempted to use reaper to loopback record it onto another track to get a 'normal' version. Be nice to solve this first though!

john_dennis wrote on 6/17/2024, 4:26 PM

@Russell-Gough

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/17/2024, 4:55 PM

@Russell-Gough

i was waiting for someone to ask!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/688lxx4vgqyxqq190lzgd/AMmqyJ7ne5G-Bajqo9uS578?rlkey=f1f30m2waxns0qgqzravbsiv3&st=cp9kezcn&dl=0

the mp4 file is audio stream taken from video file - its clean left channel all way to end

the wav file is a typical render...sounds same reaper or vegas distortion approx 29 mins in to end

 

its a shared FOLDER..if you cant access the files i will share them separately

john_dennis wrote on 6/17/2024, 5:34 PM

@Russell-Gough

Is this any better?

Download From Here

ChristoC wrote on 6/17/2024, 7:23 PM

That original MP4 file behaves fine here in Vegas and SoundForge, both of which can render a clean WAV file identical to john_dennis' result above...

You said "I have lost patience with Vegas, even with brand new high end system the app will freeze every few seconds." that would seem to be the nub of your problem. Vegas is unstable on your PC. That has to be remedied for sure.

Why record original audio as MP4? Recording to a data-compressed format is not ideal for the first gen recording; best to use WAV.

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/17/2024, 7:51 PM

That original MP4 file behaves fine here in Vegas and SoundForge, both of which can render a clean WAV file identical to john_dennis' result above...

You said "I have lost patience with Vegas, even with brand new high end system the app will freeze every few seconds." that would seem to be the nub of your problem. Vegas is unstable on your PC. That has to be remedied for sure.

Why record original audio as MP4? Recording to a data-compressed format is not ideal for the first gen recording; best to use WAV.

@Russell-Gough

Is this any better?

Download From Here

hey yes it's what i was trying to achieve. Well a mono track but this looks fine in Reaper - late here in UK will try in vegas tomorrow. Thanks again! Curious that it says FROM VEGAS 14?...ive been tempted to install an earlier version for the audio work!

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/17/2024, 7:55 PM

@Russell-Gough

 

That original MP4 file behaves fine here in Vegas and SoundForge, both of which can render a clean WAV file identical to john_dennis' result above...

You said "I have lost patience with Vegas, even with brand new high end system the app will freeze every few seconds." that would seem to be the nub of your problem. Vegas is unstable on your PC. That has to be remedied for sure.

Why record original audio as MP4? Recording to a data-compressed format is not ideal for the first gen recording; best to use WAV.

Did you try and render a file though? as in my OP I said it previews fine but only the RENDER fails. Also in the post I said it was a multi track video file from xsplit. So the container is mp4 i cant change that. There IS no wav option at this point. Obviously i know all about wav files i was trying to create one in the first place to edit from the mp4 multi track video file.

Will maybe create new post about instability once i get this project done. Vegas has been usable for simple edits until this (which turned out to NOT be a vegas issue after all)

john_dennis wrote on 6/17/2024, 8:11 PM

No problem with rendered file from Vegas Pro 21-315.

john_dennis wrote on 6/17/2024, 11:36 PM

@Russell-Gough

Here's a MONO/WAV file converted in Shutter Encoder from you original .mp4.

MONO WAV FILE

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/18/2024, 6:21 AM

@Russell-Gough

Here's a MONO/WAV file converted in Shutter Encoder from you original .mp4.

MONO WAV FILE

Thanks John for your help here. I am no closer to understanding why this ONE file won't render correctly where all others do but at least I have a file I can work with now! Both of your renders import into my sidechain mic duck reaper project fine so using the mono one for simplicity.

Did you open the wav file and hear the distortion yourself? Be interested to hear if it sounds like a familiar error to you? You've spent enough time helping me though so no worries!

Will crack on with the video project today and see how Vegas handles it. The freezes every few seconds are driving me nuts but that's a separate post for later!

(yes i'm using proxies but they are out of sync with audio by a crucial 5 seconds every hour so no use to me)

john_dennis wrote on 6/18/2024, 9:15 AM

I don't understand the root cause of the issue, either. My SWAG is that there is something wrong with the process in FFMPEG-based applications earlier in your workflow.

Evidence is the artifact in the Shutter Encoder file at around 29:23.

I'd keep working to get Vegas to ingest your original files or handle the derivative files without artifacts.

Here is a MONO WAV file rendered from Vegas Pro 21-315.

Good luck with your project.

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/18/2024, 12:03 PM

I don't understand the root cause of the issue, either. My SWAG is that there is something wrong with the process in FFMPEG-based applications earlier in your workflow.

Thanks again!

 

I'm basically experimenting with recording popular entertainment software (a flight simulator in this case) and doing voice over tutorials. This current project is just 'practice' but ...that's how we get to 'perfect' right?!

Microsoft Flight Simulator running at 4k with most gfx maxed out plus addons is a cpu/gpu strain but I'm stable at 60fps while also capturing the gameplay with the mic input using Xsplit Broadcaster also at 4k/60.

Had to build a high end pc just to do this a few months ago.

The error that I'm glad you see is actually in the Mp4 capture footage from xsplit on one of the multichannels. App does not allow me to save separate streams for video and audio sadly, so I have to extract the audio to mix it in Reaper then put back into Vegas for the video work.

I only installed FFMPEG to rip the streams out separately but the audio was STILL faulty. Previews fine but renders bad.

I will be trying different setups in Xsplit next time to try and avoid this. It had no problem with the poor quality webcam mic but the good mic not so good.

It's all a massive learning process as all my life I've made music and related videos or travel videos. Live capture is a new journey entirely.

Thanks again for your help I will share the 15 min YouTube edit here later for completeness but as stated it's just a stepping stone to something more commercially viable later!

Russ

Todd-AO wrote on 6/19/2024, 3:21 AM

I didn't read through all of this, but I am wondering if you are capturing your game with a CPU encoder, and briefly there is no CPU left for your encoder, if that is true, the answer may be to use hardware encoding instead. Your file is faulty in some sort of way, what's wrong with it I don't exactly know.

Other NLE's do strange things such as only build waveforms for first 10 or 17 minutes, when they reach the point of distortion on Vegas instead of playing distortion they go silent and will stay silent, unless you press stop and play again, then there's audio again

Slightly more concerning is how Vegas later hallucinated another piece of distortion that wasn't there at first. But if we consider your audio track to be faulty then it would be hoped this isn't a call back to Vegas's previous audio problems and wouldn't expect it on a healthy file.

ChristoC wrote on 6/21/2024, 7:31 PM

Russell-Gough, you asked "Did you try and render a file though?" in response to my post, where I had clearly stated "That original MP4 file behaves fine here in Vegas and SoundForge, both of which can render a clean WAV file identical to john_dennis' result above..." so, yes I did render!

Additionally, ProTools also opens and re-renders the MP4 file cleanly to WAV on Import.

Further investigations: iZotope RX10 opens your MP4 file, however it shows nothing (silence) in file beyond 00:17:38:15, and another app, Awave Audio (which is normally brilliant for audio file conversions), reports "Error: Invalid or corrupted file" when asked to convert the MP4 to WAV, therefore have to assume there is something "under the hood" terribly wrong with your original recorded MP4 file.

Russell-Gough wrote on 6/22/2024, 7:34 AM

Russell-Gough, you asked "Did you try and render a file though?" in response to my post, where I had clearly stated "That original MP4 file behaves fine here in Vegas and SoundForge, both of which can render a clean WAV file identical to john_dennis' result above..." so, yes I did render!

Additionally, ProTools also opens and re-renders the MP4 file cleanly to WAV on Import.

Further investigations: iZotope RX10 opens your MP4 file, however it shows nothing (silence) in file beyond 00:17:38:15, and another app, Awave Audio (which is normally brilliant for audio file conversions), reports "Error: Invalid or corrupted file" when asked to convert the MP4 to WAV, therefore have to assume there is something "under the hood" terribly wrong with your original recorded MP4 file.

Thanks! yes for clarification in your comment both of which can render a clean WAV I was really looking for a DO not CAN! 'Can' left the slight doubt you hadn't' actually rendered! Thanks again for 100% clarifying :D

Also,,, I;m so glad you DID find an error with the file. The error is in the multi-stream audio original capture from xsplit and also in the demuxed/ripped mono or stereo mic stream using any app. John finally gave me a clean file to work with and I used it for the test/experiment video below. I credited him start of description. If he wants me to remove that I will for privacy.

Next time I capture with xsplit I will try different audio settings. Sadly no way to capture audio separately although....I COULD record clean mic audio at the same time in Reaper while I capture video with xsplit. OR is that asking for trouble? Syncing up won't be an issue. It's tempting to get a portable recorder and route the mic from the Fireface direct to that.

Thanks for your help! Vegas stability next on my list. New thread though. It does not crash but it freezes every 10 seconds max and memory usage creeps up until I restart it.

 

john_dennis wrote on 6/22/2024, 2:17 PM

I've never used X-Split, but rather Open Broadcaster Software.

Here are my OBS Settings.

Here is the Recording Overhead

Mediainfo Report for the File Produced.

General
Complete name                            : E:\OBS Captures\2024-06-22 12-03-56.mov
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : QuickTime
Codec ID                                 : qt   0000.02 (qt  )
File size                                : 13.4 GiB
Duration                                 : 8 min 23 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 229 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 29.970 FPS
Writing application                      : Lavf60.16.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : ProRes
Format version                           : Version 0
Format profile                           : 422
Codec ID                                 : apcn
Duration                                 : 8 min 23 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 226 Mb/s
Width                                    : 2 560 pixels
Height                                   : 1 440 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 2.044
Stream size                              : 13.2 GiB (99%)
Writing library                          : fmpg
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Big / Signed
Codec ID                                 : twos
Duration                                 : 8 min 22 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 91.9 MiB (1%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : PCM
Format settings                          : Big / Signed
Codec ID                                 : twos
Duration                                 : 8 min 22 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Stream size                              : 91.9 MiB (1%)
Default                                  : No
Alternate group                          : 1

Disclaimer

  • Only people willing to spend money on disks need apply.
  • I'm likely the only person in the known universe that uses these settings.
Russell-Gough wrote on 6/22/2024, 2:25 PM

That's solid info for the "readme" folder thanks!

I'm ex IT, so a 4TB Nvme is a regular purchase for me. A MagicYUV intermediate render I used to do the exposure work on that above video was 15 mins long and 267GB. I was originally thinking of getting xsplit to use that codec..oops!

mark-y wrote on 6/25/2024, 12:27 PM

I've looked at your mp4/m4a file pretty closely, and although I can't reproduce the rendering behavior you report with your version and build of Vegas (you didn't say?), I can confirm a couple of irregularities in the file, a time index glitch at 17:36 and a DC spike at 18:08.

Just what exactly occurred at 29:19 where the gain got jacked, I don't have a good answer for you.

One possible scenario is that while Vegas was rendering, an event occured somewhere else in the system, perhaps from opening another application that competed with the audio driver you were already using in Vegas.

Audio rendering glitches in Vegas seem more common when "Microsoft Sound Mapper" is the chosen driver, as it is the system default, and carries an awful lot of traffic from several audio protocols at once, and which you likely don't need.

That all said, I had no problem rendering from that mp4/m4a file to PCM/WAV in Vegas Pro 18. Top is your WAV render, middle is your mp4/m4a, bottom is my Vegas WAV render.

Good prevention steps:

  • Choose the dedicated ASIO driver for your audio interface in Vegas Preferences.
  • Don't open and close other applications that use audio while a render is going on.
  • Don't multitask while rendering, such as web surfing.
Todd-AO wrote on 6/25/2024, 10:21 PM

I can confirm a couple of irregularities in the file, a time index glitch at 17:36 and a DC spike at 18:08.

Just what exactly occurred at 29:19 where the gain got jacked, I don't have a good answer for you.

@mark-y There are 3 locations that I found where decoding is not possible, around 10:10 17:38, and 29:24 is the big one.

Vegas plays a buzz at that those locations, the normal behavior of NLE's is to mute, I would guess this happens because the NLE has detected corruption and to prevent a decoding error or decoding noise they skip those sections. Vegas does not do that. This is likely the problem with it causing errors with plugins while this likley wouldn't be expected in NLE's that detect the corruption.

The 3 buzz's in Vegas correspond to the following

So not Vegas's fault, but it could handle it better,