Very Frustrating Rendering with Upscaling v326

jay-aero wrote on 2/9/2023, 2:57 PM

Need some help.. already contacted support more than 2-4 days ago ..No response other then confirmation. Any rendering I do that includes upscaling takes 6-8 hrs compared to V214.. Nothing but version has changed

my system I9 k13900 128 ram RTX3080I plenty of HD and power

this is what I start with

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Format Range@L5.2@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 4 min 20 s
Bit rate                                 : 280 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 119.880 (120000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:2
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.282
Stream size                              : 8.49 GiB (98%)
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-01-29 14:30:08
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-01-29 14:30:08
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Metas                                    : 3
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

I only apply Neat noise reduction and trim... then render to 5k with this output (typically about 45 minutes) Pretty normal performance

ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L6.1@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 1 min 18 s
Bit rate                                 : 240 Mb/s
Width                                    : 5 760 pixels
Height                                   : 2 880 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.000
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 119.880 (120000/1001) FPS
Original frame rate                      : 119.880 (119880/1000) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.121
Stream size                              : 2.18 GiB (100%)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2023-01-31 17:39:47
Tagged date                              : UTC 2023-01-31 17:39:47
Color range                              : Limited
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

then I upscale using video FX to crop then re render using 5k render above...

While I don't have exact specs using version 214 ( because I did not have this issue ) I can say it was maybe 1 to 1 1/2 hrs compared to 8 plus hrs...

I have tried changing the advaned Graphics setting to disable Hardware acceleration and power, changing windows priority, and I do notice that CPU usage is at best 20% and GPU is hovering @ 100% .. Now that I am watching task manager it seems to get intermittently stuck and CPU falls to 10% and below.. So I have paused rendering, changed priority plus others to unstick it with limited results

Not sure what else to do .. very frustrated!!!

thanks

Comments

3POINT wrote on 2/9/2023, 4:00 PM

What sense does it make to upscale 4kp120 10 bits to 5kp120 8 bits? Also Neat noise reduction will extremely slow down rendering.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/9/2023, 4:24 PM

@jay-aero Are you sure the newer Upscale FX is the one you used before? There's a legacy Smart Upscale that's not as high quality but runs faster... you now need to go to Legacy Prefs to bring that one back. The newer Upscale FX is one of the AI Deep Learning FX and is super high quality but slow running... I only use it sparingly on parts of clips when I need to zoom/crop distractions out of the frame, not on all the clips of an entire video.

3POINT wrote on 2/9/2023, 10:35 PM

The newer Upscale FX is one of the AI Deep Learning FX and is super high quality but slow running... I only use it sparingly on parts of clips when I need to zoom/crop distractions out of the frame, not on all the clips of an entire video.

@Howard-Vigorita Could you show an example of a super high quality result of the new Upscale FX? The few tests I did, I couldn't see a difference which would make it worthwhile to use this FX.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/9/2023, 11:35 PM

The newer Upscale FX is one of the AI Deep Learning FX and is super high quality but slow running... I only use it sparingly on parts of clips when I need to zoom/crop distractions out of the frame, not on all the clips of an entire video.

@Howard-Vigorita Could you show an example of a super high quality result of the new Upscale FX? The few tests I did, I couldn't see a difference which would make it worthwhile to use this FX.

@3POINT Sure. Old Smart version on left and newer AI in middle, HD original on right. Both fx set to 400% max and frame-grabbed from Best-Full preview:

The newer AI-Upscale has to appear as an event fx ahead of Pan/Crop to get the full benefit... I put both fx there for the compare. When you start with HD media, the difference is more pronounced than when starting with 4k... but is still evident if viewed full-screen. I go for the AI version when I do digital zooms to correct poor framing choices I made during the shoot and want to be sure the resolution change isn't evident.

3POINT wrote on 2/10/2023, 2:03 AM

@Howard-Vigorita Is that from interlaced media? When yes, than the result is not convincing me.

Former user wrote on 2/10/2023, 5:01 AM

Old Smart version on left and newer AI in middle, HD original on right. Both fx set to 400% max and frame-grabbed from Best-Full preview:

Here's 2 more to compare, 4x from Resolve and Topaz VEAI. Btw the newer Topaz Icalled Video AI is now apparently on par or better than VEAI, so I may move to that soon. The resolve version I altered the noise reduction setting changed from medium to low, kept sharpness on Medium. It probably needed that noise reduction. Topaz on auto gave this result, looks most similar to the Vegas AI version

1.resolve 2.Topaz

(ofcourse I used the still image which I assume is re-encoded by the website, the same as it does for video)

 

jay-aero wrote on 2/10/2023, 7:05 AM

Thanks to everyone.. A lot of good info

this is what I am using

VEGAS Upscale: OFX, 32-bit floating point, Grouping VEGAS\ Ai, Version 1.0
Description: VEGAS Al Up...

I have used it in V214 and I always had to move it ahead of Pan/crop.

Now it automatically has it there... I am getting a little confused.. from my point of view I am going to the same place and choosing the same thing.. It works the same ( although HUGE thank you for the navigation helper, whatever its called, added ).

So with that said where does that leave it...

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/10/2023, 1:18 PM

@jay-aero The big difference between b214 and b326 is that previously Vegas AI was strictly Intel Open Vino which seemed to always go to an Intel igpu if one was available. Crashed allot doing that with Style Transfer. Now it uses the gpu selected in Video Prefs by default with a different AI library. Maybe it was better for you doing Upscale on the igpu. You could try temporarily setting your gpu in Video Prefs to your Intel igpu on a test project that has only Upscale FX and compare the performance. Not sure if the new update continues to use Intel AI for Intel igpus but it still seems to be present in the Vegas program folder.

@3POINT Didn't realize Upscale also rubbed out the deinterlace lines I'm stuck with on my wireless ptz... have not actually used Upscale on that camera in practice because I have preset control over the framing. But maybe I'll have to try that when I use it along side 4k multicam. @Former user they look pretty similar to me on the frame grab.

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/12/2023, 12:30 AM

Here's a little test shot I did earlier today. I was actually testing a camera slider and noticed a distracting parallax effect on the horizon I might minimize with an animated digital zoom. Below are the original, pan/crop, smart-zoom, and upscale versions in that order:

I shot the footage 4k 60p 10-bit hevc and rendered 32-bit. Render times for 60p Magix Avc on my laptop were...

original: 2:10; pan/crop: 2:12; smart-zoom: 3:34; upscale: 22:18

To my eye, I thought the smart-zoom looked best. The renders are linked here for closer inspection. Have to agree with @3POINT that Upscale may not be worth the added render time on 4k media.

jay-aero wrote on 2/15/2023, 11:36 AM

I think your correct on smart zoom vs upscale... Not only does your above test point it out but I spent a substantial amount of time trying to sort this out... As you suspected earlier I had smart zoom turned off ( I think it defaulted with upgrade to that )

Interestingly I found that if I turn off my RTX3080ti with any render that touches Upscale it actually works.. Everything else worked with RTX turned on in pref.

I did a VERY small test using Media FX upscale and it took a very long time with little quality to show for it.. Not as happy as I would like to be..

thank you for all your help!!!!

Howard-Vigorita wrote on 2/16/2023, 3:46 PM

Got very good performance and quality with another 4k test shot I just did with Smart Zoom doing some position tweaking. Used these settings:

I think the Enable Enhancement checkbox does a little sharpening. I got lockups when I tried to use the Sharp presets in Upscale so I think I'd have to use Smooth plus the Sharpen FX to get it to look like Smart Zoom Enhanced. I think I'll only use Upscale with SD and HD media and stick with Smart Zoom for 4k stuff.