VP14 BUG - HDV files and projects hanging or crashing

NickHope wrote on 9/20/2016, 7:51 AM

I have a bug with HDV files in VEGAS Pro 14.0 (Build 161).

HDV .m2t files that were captured with HDVSplit cannot be dragged to the timeline [ Edit: Actually captured with VidCap, not HDVSplit. See later comment ]. Nor can I get a context menu (right click) for them in the VP14 Explorer window. It hangs and I have to kill VEGAS with the Windows Task Manager. I have only tested this with files 3.0GB or larger, as I no longer have any smaller ones. I ran a file through the old MPEG2Repair program, which allegedly makes MPEG2 files more compliant, but it still had the same problem. HDV .m2t captured with HDVSplit were fine in VP8, 10, 12 and 13. Here's a MediaInfo report for one of them:

General
ID                                       : 255 (0xFF)
Complete name                            : E:\0-capture-Tarmak\Centara-Kata1.m2t
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
Commercial name                          : HDV 1080i
File size                                : 3.04 GiB
Duration                                 : 16 min 39 s
Start time                               : UTC 2007-12-02 22:45:34
End time                                 : UTC 2007-12-03 12:35:19
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 26.1 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 33.0 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2007-12-02 22:45:34

Video
ID                                       : 2064 (0x810)
Menu ID                                  : 100 (0x64)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Commercial name                          : HDV 1080i
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@High 1440
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Codec ID                                 : 2
Duration                                 : 16 min 39 s
Bit rate                                 : 24.5 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 25.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 1 440 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.629
Stream size                              : 2.85 GiB (94%)
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 2068 (0x814)
Menu ID                                  : 100 (0x64)
Format                                   : MPEG Audio
Format version                           : Version 1
Format profile                           : Layer 2
Codec ID                                 : 3
Duration                                 : 16 min 39 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 384 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 45.8 MiB (1%)

Menu
ID                                       : 129 (0x81)
Menu ID                                  : 100 (0x64)
List                                     : 2064 (0x810) (MPEG Video) / 2068 (0x814) (MPEG Audio) / 2069 (0x815) () / 2065 (0x811) ()

HDV .m2t files rendered out by previous Vegas Pro releases CAN be dragged to the timeline and I can get a context menu for them. The Properties window reports compoundplug.dll as the decoder. I tested some such large 1080x1440-60i .m2t HDV footage, around 10GB per file, and no problem.

However....

I tried opening a large documentary project that was done in VP12/13 and based on HDV 1080x1440-50i footage. As far as I know, all or nearly all the HDV source files within them were trimmed and smart-rendered out by Vegas Pro 8 and 10. They are small files, just a few seconds long, but there are lots of them. There is also audio, MagicYUV avi files etc. etc.. This project takes about 2 minutes to load into VP13 and about 4 minutes to load into VP12. When I try to open it in VP14 after a while Windows starts to run out of memory:

The 1st time this happened it then crashed out of Windows soon after the warning appeared. The 2nd time I closed the program and it was OK. The 3rd time I went to close the program but my PC entered some strange power saving mode and I was completely locked out and had to turn it off with the power switch.

I also tried opening a smaller VP12/13 project based on HDV 1080x1440-60i footage but it crashed (I submitted a Problem Report containing the word #NicholasHope).

But some small projects VP12/13 containing Vegas-rendered HDV 1080x1440-50i footage CAN be opened.

GPU acceleration is off. I tried increasing dynamic RAM Preview to 800 but it didn't help.

My computer has an i7-5960X, 32GB RAM, Windows 10. It's normally very stable and nothing else I use crashes it out of Windows.

I have submitted a support request, [Ticket#2016092017005354]

Comments

NickHope wrote on 9/20/2016, 8:54 AM

Thanks. Agreed, it seems to be a problem with memory handling.

Proceed with caution testing this one folks as it can crash you right out of Windows.

set wrote on 9/20/2016, 9:47 AM

Got the same issue here....

I tried ONLY selecting my long record HDV Media in Explorer tab, which is 14.3 GB size (duration 1 hour 14 minutes) - the Vegas Pro freezes. Test with shorter media 3GB no issue. Test with 6.3GB success even though require more time just reading it...

Not just HDV, the Long Atomos-recorded media ProRes MOV suffer similar issue. (32.3 GB MOV). For 1GB and 8.3 GB Atomos ProRes, no issue.

As to Memory handling issue, I got weird issue where I try to open my current work-in-progress edit job, containing a lot of AVCHD Media and DJI Osmo - got Win 10 Low Memory Warning, Core Temp notification warning, and display goes black and Windows Bar moves.

VidMus wrote on 9/20/2016, 10:06 AM

The way the release notes read, it is supposed to use memory above a certain amount as a cache to help improve playback and editing performance. I cannot remember the exact words they used. So there may be a problem there. My 4k video plays back full speed with Vegas 14 and about half speed with Vegas 13. So I expect the cache is making the difference?

This might be one of those situations where one would set the Dynamic Ram Preview to zero to disable this thing.

Maybe there is a system timing issue not allowing it to work properly? I do not have any HDV files to test. I hope this helps anyway.

NickHope wrote on 9/20/2016, 10:22 AM

This might be one of those situations where one would set the Dynamic Ram Preview to zero to disable this thing.

Just tried that on your suggestion but unfortunately it doesn't help.

NickHope wrote on 9/21/2016, 9:22 PM

I had a reply by email from MAGIX support that included this:

"Thanks again for the detailed issue report(s) - this helps identify issues and gets them addressed faster. One of our devs/QA may be in contact to ask for an example file, depending on if they can reproduce the issue by generating their own files."

NickHope wrote on 9/21/2016, 10:46 PM

Anybody got any HDVSplit-captured HDV files smaller than 3GB that they can test in VP14? Sending them a 3GB file might take all week on my connection.

igniz-krizalid wrote on 9/21/2016, 11:27 PM

Nick you are doing a good job finding bugs for VP 14 and not just that, you also take the time to report them, you are the kind of person that helps making Vegas more stable and pleasant to use for the rest of us, and I wish I could help with that file that you are asking for but I don't have that type of video file sorry.

NickHope wrote on 9/21/2016, 11:38 PM

Thanks man. I love ❤️❤️❤️ VEGAS ❤️❤️❤️ and want to see it healthy 🏋

set wrote on 9/21/2016, 11:55 PM

Less than 3GB, that means a 15 minute recorded video - Try searching...

Btw, I don't use HDVSplit any further as I have left tape, but using HVR-MRC1K CF recorder, attaching it on my HVR-Z5P.

igniz-krizalid wrote on 9/21/2016, 11:59 PM

Thanks man. I love ❤️❤️❤️ VEGAS ❤️❤️❤️ and want to see it healthy 🏋

Hell yeah! Vegas never should die, Im quite new to Vegas pro but long time Movie studio user and always found Vegas in general so unique that is why I like it so much. keep up the good work bro!

NickHope wrote on 9/22/2016, 12:15 AM

Set, I did try searching but couldn't find anything. Plus I loaned my Z1P to a friend and it came back dead so I can't capture any new clips to my old firewire-enabled laptop :( I'm sure one of the old hands on this forum has some clips lying around. Lots of us used HDVSplit. It was the standard way to chop up files by scene-detection on capture.

VideJo wrote on 9/22/2016, 12:48 AM

I still have all the tools to help you out: a HDV cam, lots of tapes I used with that cam and vidcap. So I will look what files I can find.
Be back soon. Like Arnie.

NickHope wrote on 9/22/2016, 1:06 AM

Thanks VideJo. The capture app in question is HDVSplit, but it would be interesting also to see what happens with HDV files captured by Vidcap.

NickHope wrote on 9/22/2016, 1:35 AM

I finally found 7 old files that I had captured with HDVSplit in 2006, sizes 95.2 to 319MB, and they will drop onto the VP14 timeline, no problem. Now I'm not 100% convinced that my 3GB+ "problem" files were actually captured with HDVSplit. But I do know that they will open in VP12/13 and not VP14. I will reply to the email from support.

set wrote on 9/22/2016, 1:43 AM

Set, I did try searching but couldn't find anything. Plus I loaned my Z1P to a friend and it came back dead so I can't capture any new clips to my old firewire-enabled laptop :( I'm sure one of the old hands on this forum has some clips lying around. Lots of us used HDVSplit. It was the standard way to chop up files by scene-detection on capture.

Opps😱, errr... sorry, I mean of 'Try searching...' is , 'let me try searching on my own database'.... *facepalm* 🙈

Anyway, I have a 2.5 GB file M2T, but again, this is recorded using HVR-MRC1k - I'm not sure if it is similar file, but the same tapeless of 14.3 GB HDV cannot be opened.

My quick test on clicking this file in VP14 Explorer, VP14 requires some times to 'read' the file. Quite long if you are in a hurry. Then, I try click and drag to put into timeline, it requires some times again to 'read' the file, but finally it is successful.

If needed for investigation purpose, I can upload this file tonight to my Google Drive.

VideJo wrote on 9/22/2016, 3:46 AM

Set:
This is simular to the thing that happens, when you want to drag a veg file to the Timeline (nesting). Vegas needs to make a 0sfap file before you will be able to drag it to the Timeline.

Nick Hope:
The zip file a prepared for you is about 2Gb in size. This might emproach the filesize that created your crash.
Please read the message I sent you.

NickHope wrote on 9/22/2016, 3:53 AM

Thank you VideoJo. I have replied to your message. How exactly were the files captured or rendered?

VideJo wrote on 9/22/2016, 4:12 AM

I made a mistake when I stated, that I captured them with Vidcap. Instead I used HDVSplit.

set wrote on 9/22/2016, 10:40 AM

Thanks for the video, @formerCornico - Yes, loading long record video, like HDV or Atomos ProRes is like that, but - when compared to VP13, this is longer.

But, in my case, when loading a 14.3 GB video, I try wait for it - and unfortunately, the loading time has gone unacceptable (too long !). That's where the issue is.

Btw, I also have provided additional HDV sample to Nick Hope too (I have private-message Nick Hope). It is 1440x1080-50i. Hope my media along with VideJo's HDV media can help developers.

NickHope wrote on 9/23/2016, 11:12 AM

There is more discussion about my crashing in this thread.

And now discussion has moved to this more general thread about the memory issue: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp-14-win10-out-of-memory-problem--103767/

NickHope wrote on 10/6/2016, 8:46 AM

After much testing on this, I have now narrowed it down a bit.

VP14 has trouble opening HDV files that were captured with VidCap (its own capture utility). It opens such files slowly or not at all if they are large. However it doesn't have trouble opening HDV files that have been rendered by Vegas, or captured by HDVSplit. I was wrong earlier that my problem-file had been captured by HDVSplit. It looks like it had actually been captured by VidCap because it matches the MediaInfo report of VideJo's clips and not my shorter clips that I know were definitely captured by HDVSplit.

I did a comparison of the MediaInfo for a "good" file (rendered out of Vegas and opens fine in VP14) and a "bad" file (captured with VidCap and opens slowly or not at all in VP14), and highlighted the differences. The key might be in the "Overall bit rate mode". It's "Constant" in the good file and "Variable" in the bad file.

Note that files captured with HDVSplit also show "Overall bit rate mode: Constant", and they open very fast.

Also note that when one attempts to open a large, "bad" file in VP14, the Resource Monitor does not show the "ramp" in memory usage that causes the "out of memory error" crash discussed in the post that I linked to in my previous comment. So I think they are different issues, but possibly related.

[ Edit: This comment on another post indicates that the "Overall bit rate mode" is not the factor, but that "Menu">"List" might be. https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vp14-cannot-import-m2t-files--104009/#ca643470 ]

NickHope wrote on 10/6/2016, 9:55 AM

Tried to update my support ticket #2016092017005354 by email and got the reply: "Unfortunately, we can't process your request, since your ticket has already been closed." I hope this means it's been fixed!

VideJo wrote on 10/6/2016, 10:29 AM

Possibly I am wrong, but I remember that a ticket is closed after some time, unless you get back on it.

diverG wrote on 10/6/2016, 2:00 PM

Whilst testing with HDV files it might well be worth checking that the timeline can be saved/printed back to tape. When VP11 was first released to the paying 'beta' testers it took 5 months for Sony to rectify the bug.

Looking through the various postings I am going to wait for the next update before using VP14. Whilst VP14 installed OK, NBT screwd up pre-existing installs of NBT3. Lack of AC3 pro without using a work around makes it a non starter.

At present VP13 is working fine.

Geoff