VP17: can you trust the "Match Media Video Settings"

MReFIN wrote on 5/10/2020, 2:26 AM

Hi,

I'm about to edit Gopro Hero 8 media, which I have shot as 4K 4:3 24 fps. When using the match media settings, it changes the fps to 29.976 (IVTC Film). Not much of a difference but I obviously would like it to stay as native as possible. Resolution is reported as it should be 4000x3000.

So, should I go the Vegas way or the Gopro way? I have tried to google whether Gopro 24 fps is truly 24 fps but haven't found any facts.

Anyone else editing Gopro material there?

Comments

j-v wrote on 5/10/2020, 2:36 AM

Yess, no problem here

Publish here the MediaInfo of the file that is misinterpreted, ho to do that?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10 home version 2004 build 19041.264, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home version 2004 build 19041.264, CPU i7 7700HQ, 8 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 16,17 and VMS PL 16,17 are installed, all latest builds
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 451.48 Studio Driver, desktop the Studio DHC driver
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

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fifonik wrote on 5/10/2020, 3:17 AM

You cannot trust if your footage is VFR (Variable Frame Rate). So check your footage first.

Camcorder: Panasonic X920

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 3700X (not OC), RAM: G'Skill 16 GB DDR4@3200 (not OC), Graphics card: MSI RX580 8GB (factory OC), SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ NVMe 500MB (OS), HDDs: Seagate & Toshiba 2TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 1909

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17

j-v wrote on 5/10/2020, 4:20 AM

@MReFIN
I tried it with the same type of file as you did.
All went normal, no problem with "Match Media Settings", look

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10 home version 2004 build 19041.264, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home version 2004 build 19041.264, CPU i7 7700HQ, 8 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 16,17 and VMS PL 16,17 are installed, all latest builds
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 451.48 Studio Driver, desktop the Studio DHC driver
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

MReFIN wrote on 5/10/2020, 4:43 AM

@j-v: yes, that's what happens to me also but Gopro says that the frame rate should be 24 fps. I'm kind of wondering whether it is truly 24 fps (and Vegas gets it wrong) or 23.976 (and Gopro states it wrongly in their tech specs).

@fifonik: how can I check whether video is of variable frame rate? But I do not think that Gopro is.

And I'm not sure here whether the media info is misinterpreted since I do not know whether it really is 24 fps or something else.

(edit: changed the wrong fps of 29.976 to 23.976, sorry for inconvenience...)

3POINT wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:08 AM

@MReFIN 24 fps Gopro is actually 23,976 fps (and not 29,976 fps) as Vegas correctly interprets.

Gopro files are constant frame rate and not variable frame rate.

j-v wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:09 AM

And what is your problem if that should be the case, or do you think you can see the difference?
Rendering with Vegas and setted the render to 24fps delivers you a 24fps file.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W10 home version 2004 build 19041.264, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti.
Laptop  :Asus ROG GL753VD, W10 home version 2004 build 19041.264, CPU i7 7700HQ, 8 GB RAM, GeF. GTX 1050 (2 GB) + Int. HD Graphics 630(2GB).VP 16,17 and VMS PL 16,17 are installed, all latest builds
Both Nvidia GPU's have driver version 451.48 Studio Driver, desktop the Studio DHC driver
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEMCELL DONOR !!!

3POINT wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:13 AM

And what is your problem if that should be the case, or do you think you can see the difference?
Rendering with Vegas and setted the render to 24fps delivers you a 24fps file.


Probably he will see a difference, because when 23,976 fps is rendered as 24,000 fps, smart resampling becomes active (when not manually disabled) and will cause slower rendering and ghost imaging.

lenard-p wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:56 AM

And what is your problem if that should be the case, or do you think you can see the difference?
Rendering with Vegas and setted the render to 24fps delivers you a 24fps file.

24 fps video does not play on 29.97 fps TV sets or TV monitors. But 23.976 fps can be made to play on 29.97 fps monitors without frame problems

Dexcon wrote on 5/10/2020, 6:23 AM

For many years, I've felt sorry for those regions that have to deal with, what are to me, inexplicably different frame rates like 29.97, 23.976, 59.94, 30 and 24 fps. How can a frame miss .03, .06 or .024? Going back to analogue TV, I took it that NTSC (especially in the USA) was 30 fps because it related to the power supply being 60 Hz (cps) whereas PAL (in UK, AU, NZ for example - and Germany where PAL was developed) was 25 fps because the power supply was 50 Hz (cps).

Though I haven't investigated this too much, I'd love to know why there are all these different frame rates in what I suppose to be NTSC regions. If anybody has a link to an overview of how this came about, I'd be most appreciative.

In PAL land, it's so much less complicated with the choice being 25 and 50 fps

lenard-p wrote on 5/10/2020, 7:08 AM

from memory pal has higher video bandwidth than ntsc. When color was introduced ntsc with it's lower bandwidth had to compromise and needed to reduce fps to add color info, but pal did not have to compromise so remained at 25fps

MReFIN wrote on 5/10/2020, 7:10 AM

@MReFIN 24 fps Gopro is actually 23,976 fps (and not 29,976 fps) as Vegas correctly interprets.

Gopro files are constant frame rate and not variable frame rate.

Yes. Sorry in my op I should've said 23.976, NOT 29.976... My bad.

But if it is 23.976, then I'm good :D

Thanks for everybody :)

Dexcon wrote on 5/10/2020, 7:24 AM

Thanks @lenard-p … you've jogged my memory a bit. I vaguely recall from the 70s that there was also a technical difference - vertical sync? or something like that - that made PAL more reliable color-wise than NTSC. Although NTSC is the initialisation for the National Television Standards Committee, it was sometimes ironically referred to in the 70s as "Never Twice the Same Color" as I recall.

Sorry for hijacking the original topic, I've now posted my issue as:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/why-so-many-different-frame-rates-with-ntsc--120618/

Grazie wrote on 5/10/2020, 10:16 PM

@Dexcon - Thanks for the Jog down Memory Lane, especially the, "Never Twice the Same Color" quip. PAL is a terrific format, made bulletproof by a bunch of Boffins back in the day. It should’ve been made/accepted as THE Global format. But hey, I’m just a Grunt.....