VP17: can you trust the "Match Media Video Settings"

MReFIN wrote on 5/10/2020, 2:26 AM

Hi,

I'm about to edit Gopro Hero 8 media, which I have shot as 4K 4:3 24 fps. When using the match media settings, it changes the fps to 29.976 (IVTC Film). Not much of a difference but I obviously would like it to stay as native as possible. Resolution is reported as it should be 4000x3000.

So, should I go the Vegas way or the Gopro way? I have tried to google whether Gopro 24 fps is truly 24 fps but haven't found any facts.

Anyone else editing Gopro material there?

Comments

j-v wrote on 5/10/2020, 2:36 AM

Yess, no problem here

Publish here the MediaInfo of the file that is misinterpreted, ho to do that?

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

fifonik wrote on 5/10/2020, 3:17 AM

You cannot trust if your footage is VFR (Variable Frame Rate). So check your footage first.

Camcorder: Panasonic X1500 + Panasonic X920 + GoPro Hero 11 Black

Desktop: MB: MSI B450M MORTAR TITANIUM, CPU: AMD Ryzen 5700X, RAM: G'Skill 32 GB DDR4@3200, Graphics card: MSI RX6600 8GB, SSD: Samsung 970 Evo+ 1TB (NVMe, OS), HDD WD 4TB, HDD Toshiba 4TB, OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2

NLE: Vegas Pro [Edit] 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 22

Author of FFMetrics and FFBitrateViewer

j-v wrote on 5/10/2020, 4:20 AM

@MReFIN
I tried it with the same type of file as you did.
All went normal, no problem with "Match Media Settings", look

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

MReFIN wrote on 5/10/2020, 4:43 AM

@j-v: yes, that's what happens to me also but Gopro says that the frame rate should be 24 fps. I'm kind of wondering whether it is truly 24 fps (and Vegas gets it wrong) or 23.976 (and Gopro states it wrongly in their tech specs).

@fifonik: how can I check whether video is of variable frame rate? But I do not think that Gopro is.

And I'm not sure here whether the media info is misinterpreted since I do not know whether it really is 24 fps or something else.

(edit: changed the wrong fps of 29.976 to 23.976, sorry for inconvenience...)

3POINT wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:08 AM

@MReFIN 24 fps Gopro is actually 23,976 fps (and not 29,976 fps) as Vegas correctly interprets.

Gopro files are constant frame rate and not variable frame rate.

j-v wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:09 AM

And what is your problem if that should be the case, or do you think you can see the difference?
Rendering with Vegas and setted the render to 24fps delivers you a 24fps file.

met vriendelijke groet
Marten

Camera : Pan X900, GoPro Hero7 Hero Black, DJI Osmo Pocket, Samsung Galaxy A8
Desktop :MB Gigabyte Z390M, W11 home version 24H2, i7 9700 4.7Ghz,16 DDR4 GB RAM, Gef. GTX 1660 Ti with driver
566.14 Studiodriver and Intel HD graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Laptop  :Asus ROG Str G712L, W11 home version 23H2, CPU i7-10875H, 16 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Studiodriver 576.02 and Intel UHD Graphics 630 with driver 31.0.101.2130
Vegas software: VP 10 to 22 and VMS(pl) 10,12 to 17.
TV      :LG 4K 55EG960V

My slogan is: BE OR BECOME A STEM CELL DONOR!!! (because it saved my life in 2016)

 

3POINT wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:13 AM

And what is your problem if that should be the case, or do you think you can see the difference?
Rendering with Vegas and setted the render to 24fps delivers you a 24fps file.


Probably he will see a difference, because when 23,976 fps is rendered as 24,000 fps, smart resampling becomes active (when not manually disabled) and will cause slower rendering and ghost imaging.

Former user wrote on 5/10/2020, 5:56 AM

And what is your problem if that should be the case, or do you think you can see the difference?
Rendering with Vegas and setted the render to 24fps delivers you a 24fps file.

24 fps video does not play on 29.97 fps TV sets or TV monitors. But 23.976 fps can be made to play on 29.97 fps monitors without frame problems

Dexcon wrote on 5/10/2020, 6:23 AM

For many years, I've felt sorry for those regions that have to deal with, what are to me, inexplicably different frame rates like 29.97, 23.976, 59.94, 30 and 24 fps. How can a frame miss .03, .06 or .024? Going back to analogue TV, I took it that NTSC (especially in the USA) was 30 fps because it related to the power supply being 60 Hz (cps) whereas PAL (in UK, AU, NZ for example - and Germany where PAL was developed) was 25 fps because the power supply was 50 Hz (cps).

Though I haven't investigated this too much, I'd love to know why there are all these different frame rates in what I suppose to be NTSC regions. If anybody has a link to an overview of how this came about, I'd be most appreciative.

In PAL land, it's so much less complicated with the choice being 25 and 50 fps

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

Former user wrote on 5/10/2020, 7:08 AM

from memory pal has higher video bandwidth than ntsc. When color was introduced ntsc with it's lower bandwidth had to compromise and needed to reduce fps to add color info, but pal did not have to compromise so remained at 25fps

MReFIN wrote on 5/10/2020, 7:10 AM

@MReFIN 24 fps Gopro is actually 23,976 fps (and not 29,976 fps) as Vegas correctly interprets.

Gopro files are constant frame rate and not variable frame rate.

Yes. Sorry in my op I should've said 23.976, NOT 29.976... My bad.

But if it is 23.976, then I'm good :D

Thanks for everybody :)

Dexcon wrote on 5/10/2020, 7:24 AM

Thanks @Former user … you've jogged my memory a bit. I vaguely recall from the 70s that there was also a technical difference - vertical sync? or something like that - that made PAL more reliable color-wise than NTSC. Although NTSC is the initialisation for the National Television Standards Committee, it was sometimes ironically referred to in the 70s as "Never Twice the Same Color" as I recall.

Sorry for hijacking the original topic, I've now posted my issue as:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/why-so-many-different-frame-rates-with-ntsc--120618/

Last changed by Dexcon on 5/10/2020, 7:38 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Cameras: Sony FDR-AX100E; GoPro Hero 11 Black Creator Edition

Installed: Vegas Pro 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 & 22, HitFilm Pro 2021.3, DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.3, BCC 2025, Mocha Pro 2025.0, NBFX TotalFX 7, Neat NR, DVD Architect 6.0, MAGIX Travel Maps, Sound Forge Pro 16, SpectraLayers Pro 11, iZotope RX11 Advanced and many other iZ plugins, Vegasaur 4.0

Windows 11

Dell Alienware Aurora 11:

10th Gen Intel i9 10900KF - 10 cores (20 threads) - 3.7 to 5.3 GHz

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8GB GDDR6 - liquid cooled

64GB RAM - Dual Channel HyperX FURY DDR4 XMP at 3200MHz

C drive: 2TB Samsung 990 PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 PCIe SSD

D: drive: 4TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD (used for media for editing current projects)

E: drive: 2TB Samsung 870 SATA SSD

F: drive: 6TB WD 7200 rpm Black HDD 3.5"

Dell Ultrasharp 32" 4K Color Calibrated Monitor

 

LAPTOP:

Dell Inspiron 5310 EVO 13.3"

i5-11320H CPU

C Drive: 1TB Corsair Gen4 NVMe M.2 2230 SSD (upgraded from the original 500 GB SSD)

Monitor is 2560 x 1600 @ 60 Hz

Grazie wrote on 5/10/2020, 10:16 PM

@Dexcon - Thanks for the Jog down Memory Lane, especially the, "Never Twice the Same Color" quip. PAL is a terrific format, made bulletproof by a bunch of Boffins back in the day. It should’ve been made/accepted as THE Global format. But hey, I’m just a Grunt.....